My assumption about Liberal/Progressive Christians.

PloverWing

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I have a few more questions: were you happy when Kim Davis was arrested? I ask because I was not too excited either way, but more or less expecting it. Cynical, sure, but you know. What I mean to say is, if there is some sort of cultural issue and the left finally wins--and the only time I can think of them losing is the equal rights ammendment--does it make you happy?

I ask because I have always thought from the liberals here on CF that they would like it if the "religious right" was gone. The impression I got was that you guys would be happy and assume that all of those Christians were now either gone or "converted" to sexual libertarianism (I.e it's all about love). I'm really hoping that the answer is no, you just moved on with your lives.

I've been listening in to the conversation, and I'm going to step in to answer the questions at the end.

I was not happy at Kim Davis' troubles. I respected that she was really trying to follow her conscience, that she didn't want to sign her name to documents that went against her beliefs. I was hoping that the state or county would find some kind of legal compromise wherein the couples wanting marriage licenses could get them, but without requiring Ms. Davis to go against her conscience, and I think such a compromise was found in the end. In general, when these clashes arise, I look for ways in which the conscience of everyone involved can be honored, if that's possible.

Am I happy when liberal Christians "win" on a cultural issue? Yes, sometimes. The two issues in my lifetime that come most quickly to mind are 1) the inclusion of African-Americans as full members of the church and society, and 2) the inclusion of women as full members of the church and society. I remember the time of racially segregated neighborhoods and, to our shame, segregated churches. And I remember the time when women were discouraged from higher education and the workplace and were barred from church leadership roles. I am happy to see how the church and the culture have changed on these issues.

Would I like it if conservative Christians disappeared from the church? No, not at all. I think multiple voices in the church is important and healthy. The issues on which we disagree are complex, and it's important to see all of the elements and principles that are involved, to come to informed decisions. The elbow should not say to the knee, "I have no need of you."
 
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hedrick

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I agree that the State could have and should have helped Kim Davis. I can't help wondering whether the State actually wanted to have a well-publicized case to rally conservative support, caring more about that than the welfare of its staff.
 
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grandvizier1006

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Well, thanks for the responses. I don't want to continue not because it's annoying but because inevitably I'd ask some question improperly and get some answer I just can't comprehend.

I don't think I'm interested in liberal Christianity--i don't want to start saying things like "I've seen plenty of atheists that are more Christian than you people!" To other Christians--which, btw, hurts badly even if it's true because it implies that in order to be a Christian, you just have to be nice, which is very difficult for me. While most of you seem focused on doctrine and whatnot, I won't ever agree with you on things like ordination of...you know. Or at least not the emphasis on the poor and whatnot--it's important, but I feel that as a Christian I also have a duty to be a light in a culture full of sin, and not just of a sexual sort. Or the historicity of things in the Bible--I think that's not something to think too much about, anyway.

But I do appreciate your patience with me and willingness to answer my questions, as well as your willingness to serve God even when other people aren't kind to you. I'm sorry that the rest of the church has isolated you, and I hope we can overcome these differences involving gays and culture and whatnot through prayer and careful understanding of God's will. In the meantime, I'd ask that maybe you visit the conservative groups sometimes--you guys seem to hang out together in this section, and I think if you were polite than many conservatives would reach out to you. God bless and have a merry Christmas! :)
 
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Martinius

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...I'm sorry that the rest of the church has isolated you, and I hope we can overcome these differences involving gays and culture and whatnot through prayer and careful understanding of God's will. In the meantime, I'd ask that maybe you visit the conservative groups sometimes--you guys seem to hang out together in this section, and I think if you were polite than many conservatives would reach out to you. God bless and have a merry Christmas! :)
There were several comments in this post that deserve a response, but since the thread seems to have reached a conclusion, I did not want to belabor all of this. However, I have to respond to the idea that, as an obvious "liberal", I am somehow "isolated" from "the rest of the church". First, I don't feel at all isolated on these forums. I post on several sub-forums as appropriate to the topic as well as to my interests and knowledge. Not feeling isolated here.

As a "liberal" Catholic, I don't feel isolated from my Church, my parish, or my fellow Catholics. I know there are many Catholics more "conservative" or "traditional" than I am, but we pray and worship together, greet one another in friendship, socialize, learn about and discuss our faith together, work together in the same ministries, even discuss contentious issues with each other. In most cases, I really don't know where my fellow parishioners stand on most religious, political or social issues, nor does it matter.

Nor do I feel isolated from Christians of other faiths. I have good and trusted friends in other denominations, some liberal like me, some more conservative. No problem there either.

So neither in my Faith nor here do I ever feel isolated. One caveat: There are times and places on these "Christian" forums when I do feel unwelcome. But that reflects on the attitudes of those who are being unwelcome due to their prejudices, lack of tolerance, tunnel vision, and self-righteousness. I call those places (privately) the "non-Christian forums". If you want to advise anyone to be more "polite", it would be those guys.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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I'm going to feel free to share my thoughts about liberal/progressive Christians and Christianity, and please excuse any thought that may see inappropriate or offensive.

When I hear or read about progressive/liberal Christianity, I think of a group of people who abandoned Christianity, people who aren't serious about their faith, who try to believe in a Christianity that makes them feel good, without any guilt whatsoever. A Christianity that is okay with any sin, and where God is a fluffy and wishy washy being who doesn't have any authority. Where the people believe that the Scripture is an ancient book that is full of lies, myths, and have no authority on us. Where Jesus Christ is just a nice teacher, who happen to live 2000 years ago, but he is just a human, nothing more and nothing less, a prophet of some sort at the best. A people who love the world, that they compromised the Faith for the sake of people's approval. A group of people include Bishop Spong who is practically is an Atheist.

I don't claim that any of what is written above to be true, but I'm just sharing what I think when I hear about progressive/liberal Christianity and Christians.

Am I right or am I wrong? And why? Is there any good books that may help me understand Liberal Christianity? Please give me any advice you think may help me.

I could add much to this, but it's a good start.
 
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XtianAgain

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I could add much to this, but it's a good start.

Well, since we're talking about stereotypes allow me to talk about how many people on the left view Conservative Christians...

First off, many Progressive/Liberal Christians don't understand how the two words could even go together. Conservatives have a love of war and money that seems to be the very opposite of what Jesus believed in. Also, their complete obsession with homosexuality, abortion and of all things...guns.

Their denial of science is perplexing. Rather than understanding that scientific truths have already reshaped people's beliefs for centuries, they proceed with preposterousness. Swearing that you must believe everything written in The Bible completely literally or you'll be tormented by a loving God forever. Forget what scientists PROVE. No, you must ignore this or you hate Jesus.

Ignorance of people of other faiths is pretty much the norm. Especially, if you're brown with a beard. Sikhs often get mistaken for Muslims and attacked because most "Right" Christians don't even bother to learn that these people hold very different beliefs from those who follow Islam. Not that Muslims deserve any mistreatment, it would just be nice to know who you are attacking. Also, not all Muslims are from the Middle East and even then there's tons of different types. But, that's an entirely different post.

They always seem to be on the other side of an issue that would benefit people of color. They'll vote against things that greatly benefit the downtrodden, then read the words of Jesus on Sunday and not see their own hypocrisy. Then get totally outraged when you even mention the word "racism" in their company. If you're ALWAYS on the other side of civil rights, what do you call it?

Are all these things true all the time? Probably not. But, throwing out accusations in the form of a question is relatively easy. How about asking us what we believe instead of making us answer for your own misinformed assumptions?
 
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Wgw

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Well, since we're talking about stereotypes allow me to talk about how many people on the left view Conservative Christians...

First off, many Progressive/Liberal Christians don't understand how the two words could even go together.

What you describe here cannot possibly reflect an authentically liberal perspective; it is one of the more illiberal things I have read in its relative lack of respect for diverse viewpoints.

Conservatives have a love of war and money that seems to be the very opposite of what Jesus believed in. Also, their complete obsession with homosexuality, abortion and of all things...guns.

On the subject of war, Christianity has never been an entirely pacifist religion in the manner of say, Jainism. "I came not to bring peace, but a sword." On homosexuality, well, there is Romans. An analysis of early canon law (the Pedalion of St. Nicodemus the Hagiorite) and ancient liturgical texts (for example, the old Byzantine rite service for the churching of women who miscarried) indicates that the Church, with the exception of a few sects like the rather disagreeable Borborites (see the Panarion of St. Epiphanius of Salamis, Volume I), always took a dim view of abortion.

On the subject of money however, the excessive love of it is condemned, although I do not see any Biblical or Patristic basis for rejecting free-market economic liberalism, provided proper consideration is given to the poor (see St. John Chrysostom, in particular, the reasons for his exile). On the subject of guns, this is a modern technological issue that should not IMO be regarded as transsecting the religious sphere except by way of an obvious reminder of the Great Commandment, which precludes anything approaching the common law concepts of murder or manslaughter.

Their denial of science is perplexing. Rather than understanding that scientific truths have already reshaped people's beliefs for centuries, they proceed with preposterousness. Swearing that you must believe everything written in The Bible completely literally or you'll be tormented by a loving God forever. Forget what scientists PROVE. No, you must ignore this or you hate Jesus.

I agree.

Ignorance of people of other faiths is pretty much the norm. Especially, if you're brown with a beard. Sikhs often get mistaken for Muslims and attacked because most "Right" Christians don't even bother to learn that these people hold very different beliefs from those who follow Islam.

I know many conservative Christians in the US and Britain, and I have yet to meet one who is anti-Sikh or who conflates Sikhism and Islam.

That said, while I myself much admire Sikhs and the Sikh ethos of the warrior saint, by your own standards, I feel obliged to point out that Sikhism ought to be entirely unacceptable to the pacifist worldview you seem to espouse. The Sikhs represented a conquering, military powerhouse for several centuries of Indian history; their religion glorifies the honourable application of violence, they venerate military hardware, and their Nihangs, like the Hindu Saddhus, are associated with military prowress; however, unlike the Saddhus, this is not a historical or ceremonial association, but an active one; the Nihangs continue to represent an active paramilitary power that seeks to defend, by force, the interests of the Sikh community in India.

I don't object, but I can't see how you could not, unless you desire to hold Christianity to one standard and Sikhism to another. I would further argue that the Sikhs are more overtly militaristic than Islam; one can make a hypothetical argument for a peaceful Islam, by for example, interpreting jihad as spiritual struggle, and such an interpretation is de rigeur among some Sufi sects. One cannot easily make such an argument regarding the Sikh faith; this does not trouble me of course, as there is a relative lack of incidents of Sikhs using violence against Christians compared to Muslims or Hindus.

Not that Muslims deserve any mistreatment, it would just be nice to know who you are attacking. Also, not all Muslims are from the Middle East and even then there's tons of different types. But, that's an entirely different post.

Indeed; a lack of awareness or appreciation for the more tolerant, non-violent forms of Islam such as the syncretic faith of the Alevis/Alawis/Bektashis is a problem.

They always seem to be on the other side of an issue that would benefit people of color. They'll vote against things that greatly benefit the downtrodden, then read the words of Jesus on Sunday and not see their own hypocrisy. Then get totally outraged when you even mention the word "racism" in their company. If you're ALWAYS on the other side of civil rights, what do you call it?

I think this is an unfair accusation, particularly if one considers the history of conservative and classically liberal political movements and examines the current composition of these movements. Particularly, for example,,the prominent role enjoyed by African American Republicans in the past two US election cycles, and the current composition of the parliamentary Conservative Party in the UK.

Are all these things true all the time? Probably not. But, throwing out accusations in the form of a question is relatively easy. How about asking us what we believe instead of making us answer for your own misinformed assumptions?

There is a difference between "liberal" and "progressive," and in the UK the word liberal is still associated somewhat more closely with its original meaning; I see primarily illiberalism in your argument, frankly.
 
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XtianAgain

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What you describe here cannot possibly reflect an authentically liberal perspective; it is one of the more illiberal things I have read in its relative lack of respect for diverse viewpoints.

Satire what is it?

On the subject of war, Christianity has never been an entirely pacifist religion in the manner of say, Jainism. "I came not to bring peace, but a sword." On homosexuality, well, there is Romans. An analysis of early canon law (the Pedalion of St. Nicodemus the Hagiorite) and ancient liturgical texts (for example, the old Byzantine rite service for the churching of women who miscarried) indicates that the Church, with the exception of a few sects like the rather disagreeable Borborites (see the Panarion of St. Epiphanius of Salamis, Volume I), always took a dim view of abortion.

On the subject of money however, the excessive love of it is condemned, although I do not see any Biblical or Patristic basis for rejecting free-market economic liberalism, provided proper consideration is given to the poor (see St. John Chrysostom, in particular, the reasons for his exile). On the subject of guns, this is a modern technological issue that should not IMO be regarded as transsecting the religious sphere except by way of an obvious reminder of the Great Commandment, which precludes anything approaching the common law concepts of murder or manslaughter

In the modern day Republican Politicians advocate war to feed the industrial machine on a level that's far greater than warranted. A war for self-defense is not the same thing as pushing a military complex down people's throats. Also, please explain to me what the Romans have to do with the obsession that "Right" Christians have with homosexuality and abortion above and beyond everything they deem sinful? Was it the main focus of Christ?

You do not see how Conservative politicians in America are cutting programs left and right that help the needy, but give tax breaks to the fabulously wealthy? You might not see it, because you're not on this continent. But, it is very well happening.

Again, how well versed are you on the American gun issue? Has it bothered you as of late? Here in America we have an epidemic. Already in America 125 people were killed by guns. We're 5 days into this year. Epidemic that Christians should care about? What would Jesus do? Advocate for more guns you think? BTW I'm NOT for banning ALL guns. But, coming out in favor for LESS gun control by Christians...Seriously?


I know many conservative Christians in the US and Britain, and I have yet to meet one who is anti-Sikh or who conflates Sikhism and Islam.

That said, while I myself much admire Sikhs and the Sikh ethos of the warrior saint, by your own standards, I feel obliged to point out that Sikhism ought to be entirely unacceptable to the pacifist worldview you seem to espouse. The Sikhs represented a conquering, military powerhouse for several centuries of Indian history; their religion glorifies the honourable application of violence, they venerate military hardware, and their Nihangs, like the Hindu Saddhus, are associated with military prowress; however, unlike the Saddhus, this is not a historical or ceremonial association, but an active one; the Nihangs continue to represent an active paramilitary power that seeks to defend, by force, the interests of the Sikh community in India.

I don't object, but I can't see how you could not, unless you desire to hold Christianity to one standard and Sikhism to another. I would further argue that the Sikhs are more overtly militaristic than Islam; one can make a hypothetical argument for a peaceful Islam, by for example, interpreting jihad as spiritual struggle, and such an interpretation is de rigeur among some Sufi sects. One cannot easily make such an argument regarding the Sikh faith; this does not trouble me of course, as there is a relative lack of incidents of Sikhs using violence against Christians compared to Muslims or Hindus.

You're getting sidetracked, so allow me to refocus your attention. The point of my post was, in AMERICA Sikhs have been the object of violence because many Christian Americans don't know the difference between Sikhs and Muslims. Don't believe me. Google it. It'll be there. Sikh history was NOT the focus. The focus is many Christians on the Right careless about the beliefs of others. They're more willing to paint with a broad brush, then to take time looking up basic information about the people two houses down.

I think this is an unfair accusation, particularly if one considers the history of conservative and classically liberal political movements and examines the current composition of these movements. Particularly, for example,,the prominent role enjoyed by African American Republicans in the past two US election cycles, and the current composition of the parliamentary Conservative Party in the UK.

The overwhelming majority of people of color are NOT Conservative. The've recently added some black and brown people to the mix for two reasons. The first being to throw off the frequent (and to many deserved) accusations of racism. The second being trying to garner more votes. Most African and Latino Americans (who are both overwhelmingly Christian) are about as far from Conservative politically as you can get. Why is that? Maybe, they sense there's an underpinning of white supremacy there? Either that or millions of people are voting mistakenly.

There is a difference between "liberal" and "progressive," and in the UK the word liberal is still associated somewhat more closely with its original meaning; I see primarily illiberalism in your argument, frankly.

Again, you've missed the spirit of this post. I took this opportunity to throw out stereotypes in response to first Raylight (who used "liberal/progressive" at the beginning of his post) and then thatbrian who cheered his assumptions. But, I do appreciate we have a few things in common.
 
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Wgw

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In the modern day Republican Politicians advocate war to feed the industrial machine on a level that's far greater than warranted. A war for self-defense is not the same thing as pushing a military complex down people's throats.



I disagree. Militant Islam was a threat fifteen years ago, and it remains rhe major threat today. There is a need for robust military intervention, frankly much more than we are actually engaging in, in order to protect liberal Western values. If you want a liberal society, you have to be prepared to accept sacrifice in order to get there; as things presently stand, ot seems likely that creeping Islamism will eventually result in the persecution of Christians even in parts of the EU.

Islam and liberalism are incompatible, as Islam presently exists, and the unfortunate fact is that Muslims are prepared to die to resist change.

Also, please explain to me what the Romans have to do with the obsession that "Right" Christians have with homosexuality and abortion above and beyond everything they deem sinful? Was it the main focus of Christ?



A focus on Christ requires that we follow the guidance of His holy apostle, St. Paul, on human sexuality, and strive to avoid the lascivious conduct our Lord condemns.

You do not see how Conservative politicians in America are cutting programs left and right that help the needy, but give tax breaks to the fabulously wealthy? You might not see it, because you're not on this continent. But, it is very well happening.



At this precise moment, I happen to be in the US.

Again, how well versed are you on the American gun issue? Has it bothered you as of late? Here in America we have an epidemic. Already in America 125 people were killed by guns. We're 5 days into this year. Epidemic that Christians should care about? What would Jesus do? Advocate for more guns you think? BTW I'm NOT for banning ALL guns. But, coming out in favor for LESS gun control by Christians...Seriously?



This is a complex political issue and not a theological one, so I am nkt going to go there.

You're getting sidetracked, so allow me to refocus your attention. The point of my post was, in AMERICA Sikhs have been the object of violence because many Christian Americans don't know the difference between Sikhs and Muslims. Don't believe me. Google it. It'll be there. Sikh history was NOT the focus. The focus is many Christians on the Right careless about the beliefs of others. They're more willing to paint with a broad brush, then to take time looking up basic information about the people two houses down.



There were statistically very few incidents; I expect that due to the ISIL propaganda videos, the misidentification of Sikhs as Muslims will become less common.

The overwhelming majority of people of color are NOT Conservative. The've recently added some black and brown people to the mix for two reasons. The first being to throw off the frequent (and to many deserved) accusations of racism. The second being trying to garner more votes. Most African and Latino Americans (who are both overwhelmingly Christian) are about as far from Conservative politically as you can get. Why is that? Maybe, they sense there's an underpinning of white supremacy there? Either that or millions of people are voting mistakenly.



This is simply what I consider to be an uncharitable, judgemental conspiracy theory on your part. Judging the motives of others is not something Christians should engage in lightly.

Again, you've missed the spirit of this post. I took this opportunity to throw out stereotypes in response to first Raylight (who used "liberal/progressive" at the beginning of his post) and then thatbrian who cheered his assumptions. But, I do appreciate we have a few things in common.

Raylight is a very decent person who I know from another forum; he has on occasion overreacted to things that concerned him, but of late I have found his contributions here to be interesting, relevant and meaningful.
 
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XtianAgain

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I disagree. Militant Islam was a threat fifteen years ago, and it remains rhe major threat today. There is a need for robust military intervention, frankly much more than we are actually engaging in, in order to protect liberal Western values. If you want a liberal society, you have to be prepared to accept sacrifice in order to get there; as things presently stand, ot seems likely that creeping Islamism will eventually result in the persecution of Christians even in parts of the EU.

Islam and liberalism are incompatible, as Islam presently exists, and the unfortunate fact is that Muslims are prepared to die to resist change.

You see what you just did there? You used stereotypes. MUSLIMS are prepared to die to resist change. Something I talked about in the last post. All Muslims aren't coming to get you. You're feeding into the lies that make the machine move.


A focus on Christ requires that we follow the guidance of His holy apostle, St. Paul, on human sexuality, and strive to avoid the lascivious conduct our Lord condemns.

What in fact makes homosexuality lascivious? What makes it such a sin that's its focused on more than things like murder and hoarding of riches? In the earlier post I said we're not to take things literally and you agreed. Are you doing that now?

At this precise moment, I happen to be in the US.

Then how do you not see this happening? Check the campaign issues of Democrats versus Republicans. It's in black and white.

There were statistically very few incidents; I expect that due to the ISIL propaganda videos, the misidentification of Sikhs as Muslims will become less common.

How many incidents are enough before we realize that most Americans aren't attempting to know the differences between faiths and how much chaos this ignorance can cause?

This is simply what I consider to be an uncharitable, judgemental conspiracy theory on your part. Judging the motives of others is not something Christians should engage in lightly.

Again, the number. Why are most people of color overwhelmingly voting on the other side if it's just me judging?

Raylight is a very decent person who I know from another forum; he has on occasion overreacted to things that concerned him, but of late I have found his contributions here to be interesting, relevant and meaningful.

I don't wish ill of this man personally. But, he did come in The Liberal Forum and throw out tons of assumptions. He didn't ask questions politely. Yet, when I do it I have answer for it in The Liberal Forum by you. You don't see the issue with this?
 
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Butterfly99

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I'm definitely liberal, and I'm definitely a Christian, but looking at your description, I don't think I'm a very good liberal Christian.

I think Jesus is the Word of God and that he's alive, and that God makes demands on our lives. So, the "fluffiness" is not obvious to me. In particular, the demands that I hear are much more stringent than what conservatives apparently hear, and I find them more directed at me than at other people or groups.

Regarding the Bible, I read it and I love it. I don't think it's free from error, but I also think that a lot of the problems people find in it are due to problematic interpretations rather than what the authors were trying to communicate. I also take Old Testament law pretty seriously (though, typically, not directly applied). There are passages that I think are convenient for people to write off (like the prohibition against eating pork, or sowing a field with two different kinds of crop) that fundamentally undermine free market capitalism and individualism and promote systemic protection of vulnerable groups and limit wealth disparity. So, the idea that a liberal Christian would reject the authority of Scripture is foreign to me (although someone else may think differently).

I'm pro-intellectualism, which I see as an expression not of intelligence, but of curiosity about what is real, and not what is comfortable or ingratiates one to one's "team." Along these lines, I give unabashed and unqualified support to science, which is often opposed by American churches and American Christians. Rather than finding approval for this, as one might infer from your description of "compromising," I have generally found myself alone. By faith I believe I'm not alone. But it sure feels that way.

So I find nothing familiar in your description.

Ditto! :D
 
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Martinius

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Can somebody explain how Spong became the patron saint of progressive Christians? I know people who agree with him, but i know just as many who don't.
Spong was a bishop, and a prolific speaker and writer. I do not consider him the patron saint of progressive Christians, just one of the most visible and vocal. It is possible that the media anointed Spong by using him as a reference on various issues and broadcasting his opinions as representative of progressive Christians.
 
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hedrick

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One of the problems with conservatives evaluating liberals is that they tend to look at people like that. On the other hand, plenty of people evaluate conservatives based on absurd examples a well. Just a general human problem, made worse by the press' need for things that are eye-catching.
 
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Liberal Christianity (to me ONLY) is more about attempting to live out Matthew 25:31-46 than get crazy on other issues. I am pro-choice because I do not believe that banning abortion is really going to stop women from having abortions (see how well Prohibition worked). I am pro-gun control because I believe that no one needs to own an assault rifle nor should guns be owned without registration, safety classes or a license. I am opposed to the current ogligarchy. I am opposed to the current prejudice against Muslims, hispanics and other people of color. I am opposed to the death penalty (see the innocense project).

I see conservative/fundamentalist Christianity as less about Christ and more about attempting to force absurd beliefs on a society and culture that has grown beyond such black and white thinking. I understand its appeal to those who have trouble with all the grey areas in life but it is not something I feel is acceptable or even authentically Christian. At some point we will all stand before our Creator and give an account of our lives. I would prefer to stand there and say that I tried to live a life of love to the best of my ability than say that I tried to hold others down and made them something less than fully human because I thought I was right.
 
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Liberal Christianity (to me ONLY) is more about attempting to live out Matthew 25:31-46 than get crazy on other issues. I am pro-choice because I do not believe that banning abortion is really going to stop women from having abortions (see how well Prohibition worked). I am pro-gun control because I believe that no one needs to own an assault rifle nor should guns be owned without registration, safety classes or a license. I am opposed to the current ogligarchy. I am opposed to the current prejudice against Muslims, hispanics and other people of color. I am opposed to the death penalty (see the innocense project).

I see conservative/fundamentalist Christianity as less about Christ and more about attempting to force absurd beliefs on a society and culture that has grown beyond such black and white thinking. I understand its appeal to those who have trouble with all the grey areas in life but it is not something I feel is acceptable or even authentically Christian. At some point we will all stand before our Creator and give an account of our lives. I would prefer to stand there and say that I tried to live a life of love to the best of my ability than say that I tried to hold others down and made them something less than fully human because I thought I was right.

Well said.
 
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