must the host be willing in order to get a demon cast out?

[this is not my name]

I know there was a girl who chased after Paul, and she had a spirit, and annoyed him so much that he cast the spirit out of her. but I think that was on his faith, not hers. also, Judas was entered by satan. could the disciples cast it out of Judas? or would Judas have had to be willing and have faith? also, Judas had power over demons.

 

[Sabertooth]

Few people with the understanding that you request will give this question the "time of day" in the Controversial Christian Theology sub-forum. It should be moved to the Spiritual Gifts sub-forum.

 

[topher694]

Yes and no, demons can be cast out based on our authority as believers, however, if the person being delivered isn't willing to change the behavior that got them bound in the first place they (the demons) will come back and it will be worse than before. Matthew 12:43-45

 

[this is not my name]

interesting.

 

[this is not my name]

I was getting a bunch of thoughts filling my head, and did not come out of them. but I got prayed over, and the thoughts and condemnation and EVERYTHING left. and my mind was so clear. and I felt the HOLY SPIRIT urgently calling me to surrender fully to Him, and I resisted, and I went home, and then I stumbled again (food, dinner was waiting, and it was a stumbling block for me) and then all the thoughts came back like before, but worse, and I could not get out of them. and I said, I can't do it, and then I told my grandparents, and they said, "you can't" and I went into the bedroom, and felt the Holy Spirit calling me to surrender it all to Him again, and I resisted. and then later I felt like His presence left me, and that I was a million miles away, and cried out to Him to return after saying, "no, no, no" and I have not felt His presence since, and it has been two months, and the Bible does not speak to me, neither do sermons, nor prayer.

 

[this is not my name]

and now my thinking is convoluted, like, as if a curtain was put over my thoughts, my thoughts are single-tracked, and I can barely hear them, and I seem to be in a bad place. I tried fasting, etc. but can't seem to get better.

 

[this is not my name]

so, makes me wonder if I am possessed by a demon or more, since I lost a lot of my ability to think, the knowledge is there, but I can't analyze my thoughts any more.

 

[this is not my name]

Few people with the understanding that you request will give this question the "time of day" in the Controversial Christian Theology sub-forum. It should be moved to the Spiritual Gifts sub-forum.

how do I move it?

 

[topher694]

1) If you feel like there is demonic influence going on, repent to God for anything you've said or done that would be in agreement or alignment with it. If others are involved in any way, tell God you forgive them. After that, tell any spirits that might be bugging you to leave you alone.

2) When people have a hard time hearing from God, I often tell them, go back to the last thing you did hear Him tell you and see if there is anything you still need to do, or change. Then proceed from there.

3) Praise & worship. The Bible tells us praise "silences the enemy" (Ps 8:2). Cue up some of your favorite worship music and listen to it... for a good long time, and see what happens.

 

[Blade]

so, makes me wonder if I am possessed by a demon or more, since I lost a lot of my ability to think, the knowledge is there, but I can't analyze my thoughts any more.

You know what song is playing right now? "There is power" By Lincoln Brewster. <search.. there is POWER IN THE NAME OF JESUS! THERE IS POWER POWER IN HIS NAME...

All HIM! Right now..for you. So.. you believe John 3:16 Rom 10:9-10? Then you are saved.. your house has someone in it. For a believer.. demons can like.. attach them selfs to areas of our life. So renounce that sin that area that thing.. in JESUS name.. Repent.. and it HAS NO CHOICE it HAS to leave..

Oh and know this.. He never left you.. NEVER! Please don't go by feelings. They are always up and down. Have I felt like that? HELLO! YES! Lol...many times. But its a lie. He told you.. I will NEVER leave you nor forsake you. When we ask the Father for the Holy Spirit.. He is with us for EVER! He will never leave you..no matter what you feel like what it looks like

Did you know in the OT its written "who ever calls on the lord SHALL BE DELEAVERED"! That its.. don't deal! There is NOTHING you cant do WITH Christ. NOTHING! Everything is possible for you WITH Christ. And you are NOT "possessed" with any demon!

See Jesus said.. to YOU! greater is HE that is in YOU then he that's in the world" Jesus said.. I give you ALL POWER OVER THE ENEMY"...EVERY DEMON EVER FALLEN angel has to bow to the CHRIST IN YOU! You have all power over them.. resist the devil he HAS to leave..

God has not given you the spirit of fear but of power and love and? A SOUND MIND! The JOY of the lord is your strength. Be strong in the lord and in the POWER OF HIS MIGHT! Put on HIS armor.. the full armor of GOD. And the PEACE OF GOD …..shall keep and guard your mind in Christ JESUS!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

so, makes me wonder if I am possessed by a demon or more, since I lost a lot of my ability to think, the knowledge is there, but I can't analyze my thoughts any more.

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. (2 Corinthians 5:14-19).

When I considered this passage, which clearly describes a person who is genuinely converted to Christ, I cannot see how your experience matches the description in the above passage if you say you are a genuinely converted Christian believer. Perhaps there is something you missed when you received Christ. Maybe He is not a complete Saviour for you yet.

 

[topher694]

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. (2 Corinthians 5:14-19).

When I considered this passage, which clearly describes a person who is genuinely converted to Christ, I cannot see how your experience matches the description in the above passage if you say you are a genuinely converted Christian believer. Perhaps there is something you missed when you received Christ. Maybe He is not a complete Saviour for you yet.

So someone seeks advice because they are struggling with something but they want to overcome, grow, and hear God's voice and your response is to call their salvation into question? That's not a ministry of reconciliation. That's a ministry of condemnation.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

So someone seeks advice because they are struggling with something but they want to overcome, grow, and hear God's voice and your response is to call their salvation into question? That's not a ministry of reconciliation. That's a ministry of condemnation.

So what? The Scripture tells us to examine ourselves to determine whether we are actually in the faith.

The point of the Scripture is that when a person receives Christ, he becomes a whole new creature in Christ. That new creature cannot be demon possessed. If the old man of the flesh was demon possessed, he is now dead. He died on the cross with Christ and did not rise from the dead with Christ, so, there is a grave somewhere in heaven where the old man is buried.

I am not saying the guy is not converted to Christ, and so if he is, then he needs to see that his old man of the flesh is dead in Christ, and his new man is free from any demon influence.

So, instead of trying to get a demon cast out of him (which incidentally there is no examples of believers having demons cast out of them after the day of Pentecost), which is impossible because you can't cast a demon out of a corpse, he needs to come to Christ as the new man and claim his freedom. He should tell God, "I am sorry for my unbelief, ask You to forgive me, and strengthen my faith in Your Word. I now exercise faith in the promise of your Word:
"So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed" (John 8:36), and I take my freedom now in the Name of Jesus".

He can now say to the devil, "I am a child of God, and you cannot come near me with your lies - so, on your bike right now!"

If you are going to continue to believe that you are demon-possessed,
are you going to get the corpse of your old man out of its coffin and try to cast demons out of it? I guess someone would try if they are a senseless pelican!

 

[topher694]

So what? The Scripture tells us to examine ourselves to determine whether we are actually in the faith.

The point of the Scripture is that when a person receives Christ, he becomes a whole new creature in Christ. That new creature cannot be demon possessed. If the old man of the flesh was demon possessed, he is now dead. He died on the cross with Christ and did not rise from the dead with Christ, so, there is a grave somewhere in heaven where the old man is buried.

I am not saying the guy is not converted to Christ, and so if he is, then he needs to see that his old man of the flesh is dead in Christ, and his new man is free from any demon influence.

So, instead of trying to get a demon cast out of him (which incidentally there is no examples of believers having demons cast out of them after the day of Pentecost), which is impossible because you can't cast a demon out of a corpse, he needs to come to Christ as the new man and claim his freedom. He should tell God, "I am sorry for my unbelief, ask You to forgive me, and strengthen my faith in Your Word. I now exercise faith in the promise of your Word:
"So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed" (John 8:36), and I take my freedom now in the Name of Jesus".

He can now say to the devil, "I am a child of God, and you cannot come near me with your lies - so, on your bike right now!"

If you are going to continue to believe that you are demon-possessed,
are you going to get the corpse of your old man out of its coffin and try to cast demons out of it? I guess someone would try if they are a senseless pelican!

Why would we need to examine ourselves when you are doing such a good job for us?

I've spent countless hours undoing the damage that comments like that cause.

I'm not getting dragged into a theological debate over demons, but for the sake of the OP, no a believer cannot be possessed, but they can be oppressed. The evidence for that is not only in the Bible, but all around us everyday. Overcoming that is part of the victory Jesus won at the cross and the grace He has given us.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Why would we need to examine ourselves when you are doing such a good job for us?

I've spent countless hours undoing the damage that comments like that cause.

I'm not getting dragged into a theological debate over demons, but for the sake of the OP, no a believer cannot be possessed, but they can be oppressed. The evidence for that is not only in the Bible, but all around us everyday. Overcoming that is part of the victory Jesus won at the cross and the grace He has given us.

You missed my point. I don't really care about the supposed damage my insistence on people making their calling and election sure. That is clearly stated in the New Testament, where there is nothing about believers being demon possessed. I think there is a lot more damage done to good believers by making them believe they are demon possess when they are nothing of the sort. It is mainly the devil who is telling them that, and he is a liar.

The truth is that although they have made a profession of Christianity, even Pentecostal or Charismatic Christianity, and yet are still living in the old man and have not yet put on the new man. This comes from ignorance of the Scripture of where we stand with Christ, and shonky teaching to support a deliverance ministry that could largely be founded on falsehood and deception to fool good believers to think they are something they are not, and to hide who they really are in Christ.

 

[topher694]

You missed my point. I don't really care about the supposed damage my insistence

No need to read any further

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

No need to read any further

The question is, does your accusative tone come from the works of the flesh or the fruit of the Spirit? It doesn't really matter to me, but it might make the difference between truth and error for you.

 

[topher694]

The question is, does your accusative tone come from the works of the flesh or the fruit of the Spirit? It doesn't really matter to me, but it might make the difference between truth and error for you.

I started in this thread giving real practice advice to Repent, forgive, be obedient to God, and to praise and worship. You started by questioning someone's salvation. My conscience is clean.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

It is quite true that unconverted sinners can be demon-possessed. But when the person is converted to Christ, the demon possession has died along with the sin with Jesus on the cross. Jesus did not die for the sinner. He died as the sinner. This means that He died as the demon-possessed person. The demon possession is gone. All that is left is the memory of it which is affecting the attitude of the mind.

Neil Anderson, in his book "The Bondage Breaker" approaches it in the right way. He gets the believer to go through all the areas of sinful involvement and traumatic experience which might have given rise to the demonic bondage. The believer confesses and renounces each experience, one by one and takes his freedom in Christ over each one. As he takes his freedom over each one, the memory and the residual bondage of mind falls away, until at the end, the believer knows that he is completely free of all bondage, and is well on the way of having the mind of his new man transformed into the image of Christ.

Most of the public casting out of demons at the front of churches is just show and performance out of ignorance of God's Word and more contributes to the reputation of the one doing the deliverance. Often the problem is not solved, because the "client" has not been brought into the full realisation and acceptance that he or she is a new creature in Christ and that the old "man" who was demon possessed is dead in the grave whom Jesus left behind when He rose from the dead.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I started in this thread giving real practice advice to Repent, forgive, be obedient to God, and to praise and worship. You started by questioning someone's salvation. My conscience is clean.

How can a believer repent of things that died on the cross with Christ? If things that are to be repented of are dead and gone, what is the alternative?