Must I speak in tongues to be Baptised in the Holy Spirit?

[PottersClay]

This brings me to the point of the thread. I feel once again that I need the indwelling of the Spirit of God but I'm afriad that once again God will reject me for some reason. I don't want to go to a church, walk up in front and pray for the Holy Spirit only to find that I will not speak in tongues. Now since this is the charismatic forum can I please get knowledge from some of you on whether or not I must speak in tongues. The only real pentacostal church I know of in town is The Assemblies of God and from what I gather they say that the speaking in tongues is a necessary manifestation of the Baptism. Is this true? I truely love the Lord and I don't think I could take another try at the baptism and end up not speaking in tongues. My heart will break if this happends all over again and I'm scared that if I do try this again and the same thing happends I will end up falling into sin again, just like the last time.

PLEASE HELP!!!

Wow, I'm so sorry you've gone through such a thing (I had no idea).

Neph, while it's true that there are examples in the NT of baptism in the Spirit being evidenced by speaking in tongues, 1 Corinthians 12 makes it pretty clear that just as not everybody receives a gift of healing, or working of miracles, not everyone receives the gift of tongues.

(1 Cor 12:27-31) Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way.
​

Not only that, the last sentence of this passage is the key "And I will show you a still more excellent way." which goes directly into 1 Cor 13:1-3

"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.​

There has been an unhealthy over emphasis on tongues, to the point that you (and many others) ended up feeling rejected by God because you didnt receive the gift. That alone should be evidence that what's being taught is not balanced. What should be being taught is all of the gifts are for the purpose of ministering to others, and to stress 1 Cor 13, and teach that even before desiring to have gifts, that we should earnestly pray to truly demonstrate agape love (or at least to pray for both simultaneously).

I remember when I was a young Christian being taught the same things. Even then, I was always bothered that the emphasis seemed to be that we were to seeking the baptism of the Spirit to get the gift of tongues, which in effect made Holy Spirit almost an afterthought (or a side benefit) instead of the goal being to be flooded with the Holy Spirit (tongues being the afterthought).

So, being the rebel I was, I simply refused to seek either until I had an understanding of what both really were. I knew the reality of both were in the Bible, but I didnt want man's version or perspective: I wanted these gifts for the reason God wanted me to have them. When that happened, I knew it was God and not just something I conjured up in my mind. Oh, and I didnt initially speak in tongues either.

I dont know about you, Neph, but I find that the motivation behind what we pray makes a world of difference in how God answers them. If we pray for spiritual gifts with the motivation of ministering to others (which is the only purpose for any spiritual gift) we can simply trust that the Holy Spirit will give us the gifts He knows we will need, when we need it.

Oh, and NO spiritual gift should be something other Christians measure us by (and that includes you measuring yourself by that standard).

The bottom line, my friend, is dont worry about gifts. "Seek first the kingdom and [His] righteousness, and [in His time] all these things will be added unto you." Focus on rebuilding your relationship with the Lord and making yourself totally available to Him. After all, being filled with the Spirit is really about doing just that.

Peace
PottersClay

 

[Starcrystal]

PottersClay,
There has been an unhealthy over emphasis on tongues, to the point that you (and many others) ended up feeling rejected by God because you didnt receive the gift. That alone should be evidence that what's being taught is not balanced. What should be being taught is all of the gifts are for the purpose of ministering to others, and to stress 1 Cor 13, and teach that even before desiring to have gifts, that we should earnestly pray to truly demonstrate agape love (or at least to pray for both simultaneously).

Excellent! Right on! That just about sums it up.
I've seen people bum out because they didn't speak in tongues. My Pastor runs a house church today because he was an interim pastor at a certain pentecostal church, had the chance to get the pastors position, but they voted him down. One of the reasons was that he didn't speak in tongues! Yet he believes completely in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and that the gifts are for today. To me thats abusive when churches put emphasis on tongues, or any one gift, and seem to forget the weightier matters: love, forgiveness, being an example & witness to Christ....

 

[nephilimiyr]

Hi Potter!

There has been an unhealthy over emphasis on tongues, to the point that you (and many others) ended up feeling rejected by God because you didnt receive the gift. That alone should be evidence that what's being taught is not balanced. What should be being taught is all of the gifts are for the purpose of ministering to others, and to stress 1 Cor 13, and teach that even before desiring to have gifts, that we should earnestly pray to truly demonstrate agape love (or at least to pray for both simultaneously).

That makes alot of sense! To tell you the truth I know I can't say I have love for everyone but it's my admittence to that that has told me I need to have God's Spirit take over. It's not that I hate, it's that I feel an indifference toward some people.

I remember when I was a young Christian being taught the same things. Even then, I was always bothered that the emphasis seemed to be that we were to seeking the baptism of the Spirit to get the gift of tongues, which in effect made Holy Spirit almost an afterthought (or a side benefit) instead of the goal being to be flooded with the Holy Spirit (tongues being the afterthought).

So, being the rebel I was, I simply refused to seek either until I had an understanding of what both really were. I knew the reality of both were in the Bible, but I didnt want man's version or perspective: I wanted these gifts for the reason God wanted me to have them. When that happened, I knew it was God and not just something I conjured up in my mind. Oh, and I didnt initially speak in tongues either.

That seems to be a very senseable way how to deal with this. After reading the thoughts of everyone here I have come to the conclusion that if the gift is given to me then I will accept it but I am not going to be expecting that I have to have it. I'm not going to be makeing that demand on God. If it truely is a supernatural gift then I want it to happen supernaturally, not by me forcing it to happen.

I dont know about you, Neph, but I find that the motivation behind what we pray makes a world of difference in how God answers them. If we pray for spiritual gifts with the motivation of ministering to others (which is the only purpose for any spiritual gift) we can simply trust that the Holy Spirit will give us the gifts He knows we will need, when we need it.

I agree totally! It's what's in our hearts that God looks at, not the idle words we say.

Oh, and NO spiritual gift should be something other Christians measure us by (and that includes you measuring yourself by that standard).

The bottom line, my friend, is dont worry about gifts. "Seek first the kingdom and [His] righteousness, and [in His time] all these things will be added unto you." Focus on rebuilding your relationship with the Lord and making yourself totally available to Him. After all, being filled with the Spirit is really about doing just that.

Thanks for the word Potter!

God Bless!

 

[nephilimiyr]

Excellent! Right on! That just about sums it up.
I've seen people bum out because they didn't speak in tongues. My Pastor runs a house church today because he was an interim pastor at a certain pentecostal church, had the chance to get the pastors position, but they voted him down. One of the reasons was that he didn't speak in tongues! Yet he believes completely in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and that the gifts are for today. To me thats abusive when churches put emphasis on tongues, or any one gift, and seem to forget the weightier matters: love, forgiveness, being an example & witness to Christ....

LOL, WOW!...and who would've thought a person believeing in fallen angels being behind UFOs and alien abductions was a spirit filled believer? LOL, I'm sorry Starcrystal but you know I believe 95% the same as you?

Glad you joined the discussion!

 

[Andrew]

After reading the thoughts of everyone here I have come to the conclusion that if the gift is given to me then I will accept it but I am not going to be expecting that I have to have it. I'm not going to be makeing that demand on God. If it truely is a supernatural gift then I want it to happen supernaturally, not by me forcing it to happen.

I understnd what you mean and how you feel, but do remember also that the gifts of God are received by grace thru faith. ie you need to ask for it, and then go and grab hold of it (faith in action). If we just wait for it to fall on our laps, there's a 99% chance that it'll never happen. God is waiting for you to make the move.

As long as you understnd what it is and desire to have it, there's no reason to not go get it. Don't let a few black sheep steer you away from receiving today.

 

[I'm4Him]

Hey Everyone,

I was filled with His spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues in 2001. For a year before that I had trouble with this 'wier and supernatural' thing that happened to people in my church. I wanted what they had BUT my pride stood in the way. But in 2001 when an altar call was opened, I ran down to the altar and gave my whole will to God and surrendered everything to Him. Before being filled with His spirit, I was so distraught and unhapppy because I knew I needed His spirit to help me through life. I dont necessary believe that you need the Holy Ghost to be saved BUT the more and more I go on in life, I see that the only thing that has kept me is His spirit.

It says in Acts 2:38 that we must repent and be baptized. And then it says 'And ye SHALL recieve the GIFT of the Holy Spirit.' I believe that when you repent the Lord automatically dwells in you but the evidence of surrendering your will is speaking in tongues. I believe that once we really believe in God, THEN He can truelly dwell within us.

I hope this has helped. Dont be discouraged. It will happen but you just need to trust God and have faith that you will receive it. A friend of mine tried to 'get' the Holy Ghost for 3 years and she went down to the altar ALL the time. She always went away without it BUT after three years she was filled with His wonderful spirit. I think God is putting you through a test and maybe you just need to push through it. If He can see that you will keep seeking Him and His gifts, He will fill you.

Remember that God loves you whether you have the Holy Spirit or not!

 

[TasManOfGod]

I think that if we take an honest look at scripture you will see that the only way the disciples knew people were baptised in the Holy Spirit is that they "saw" that they had . How do you think they "saw"? By observing that they spoke in tongues. Why would anybody think it should be any different today.
I think that a big mistake to make is to assume that you are baptised in the Holy Spirit simply because you have received Christ. Such an understanding would restrict the person from seeking anything else from God and deprive the Church of a valuable asset.

 

[Surprised by joy]

How do you think they "saw"? By observing that they spoke in tongues.

This'll be quick:

Obviously, Nephilimyr is not assuming that just because he received Christ, he is baptised in the Spirit. And, there are other gifts besides tongues. One can tell because one has the other gifts.
A few people in this debate (including myself) have said, "I was baptised in the Spirit before I received the gift of tongues." Does that count for anything? For me, baptism in the Spirit was obvious; even though I did not have the gift of tongues, my friends recognized that I was baptised in the Spirit.

No, personal experience is not always reliable, but it is one of the ways God reveals Himself.

Now, in the end debates can only go so far. I do not wish to lift myself or my point of view up. It is God who must be lifted up. Considering that, and with the knowledge of very strong and very different convictions of what is the "truth", shouldn't we give the whole matter up to God?

I repeat, whether I am right or wrong doesn't matter. Nephilimyr, I shall pray for you, that God reveal Himself and His truth to you.

Please, anyone who reads this, join in this prayer.

Father, we are merely human; we cannot fully know you, nor fully see you now. Please, send forth Your light and Your truth O Lord: let them bring us to Your holy hill, to the place where You dwell. You are all-knowing, and we profess our weakness, but also our love for and devotion to You. Comfort Nephilimyr, show Him that though he is weak, He is strong in Your power. Let Your will, O Lord, be done. Amen.

P.S. Forgive me. I do not know if I am being too bold. If I am, I trust to God's (and your?) mercy.

 

[Gary B]

John 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
John 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
John 1:35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;
John 1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
John 1:37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.

John the baptist saw the Spirit descend on Jesus, But he didn't speak in tongues to the disciples. Just John saw the Spirit then. Nobody else. And I haven't found anywhere in the Bible that Jesus spoke in tongues. Maybe he did but not around people. To say that somebody has to pray in tongues in order to be baptized is limiting God. That is the least of the Spirit's Gifts.

I pray in tongues most of the time. I was really asking God to teach me to pray. Well, He answered my prayer but not as I expected. I was really asking to pray better in English. Words didn't come easy for me in prayer or even flow like some people I heard pray in English. And I've heard some really heartfelt and powerful prayers in English. But they didn't pray in tongues ever.

As Paul said:

1Co 14:22,23 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

I always wondered if an unbelievers came in to a church, what would he think or even somebody that's Born Again but doesn't pray in tongues would say. Are ye all mad??? They have lost their mind???

And to put a burden on somebody saying they need to pray in tongues to prove they are baptized by the Holy Spirit is wrong...IMHO

 

[TasManOfGod]

I think it is putting a burden on people if they are told that they are baptised in the Holy Spirit when they' re most likely not. Then there is the unacheivable expectation upon them that what is coming out of one's own spirit is as from the Holy Spirit.
I believe God had foreseen this and given us tongues so that we knew for sure.
IMHO
Tas

 

[SavedByGrace3]

You CAN speak in tongues..
You can do it right now.
The only things stopping you are bad teaching, misinformation, and psychological stresses.
If you are saved (and you are)...you can speak in tongues.

I will go one step further..
You have spoken in tongues, but just did not know that what you were doing was tongues.

 

[Surprised by joy]

You CAN speak in tongues..
You can do it right now.
The only things stopping you are bad teaching, misinformation, and psychological stresses.
If you are saved (and you are)...you can speak in tongues.

I will go one step further..
You have spoken in tongues, but just did not know that what you were doing was tongues.

Can you support that with Scripture? If so, please do. . . .

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Can you support that with Scripture? If so, please do. . . .

If we did not have anything other than this, it would be enough:
Mar 16:17
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

If I never spoke a word in tongues, it would not matter. We have the words of Jesus. He said that these signs follow me. So they do regardless of what happens. Jesus does not lie.
I believe, therefore I speak with new tongues.
But there is much more. I am on break now... but I will try to get to it later.

 

[RevKidd]

Let me ask this.

Why such an emphasis on tongues, when Paul said that it is not the greater?

Scripture also states that tongues is for the unbelievers. How many times have you ever seen the unsaved praying for someone to get the Holy Ghost? Why do we the believers, look for tongues as the "Initial Sign" when tongues are for the lost?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Let me ask this.

Why such an emphasis on tongues, when Paul said that it is not the greater?

Scripture also states that tongues is for the unbelievers. How many times have you ever seen the unsaved praying for someone to get the Holy Ghost? Why do we the believers, look for tongues as the "Initial Sign" when tongues are for the lost?

Only because there are some who would seek to take this away from the believer. If they would stop trying to take it away, then I suppose it would not be the constant topic of conversation.

 

[RevKidd]

Only because there are some who would seek to take this away from the believer. If they would stop trying to take it away, then I suppose it would not be the constant topic of conversation.

Who are the "some"?

Who are "they"?

 

[JesusServant]

John 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
John 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
John 1:35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;
John 1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
John 1:37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.

John the baptist saw the Spirit descend on Jesus, But he didn't speak in tongues to the disciples. Just John saw the Spirit then. Nobody else. And I haven't found anywhere in the Bible that Jesus spoke in tongues. Maybe he did but not around people. To say that somebody has to pray in tongues in order to be baptized is limiting God. That is the least of the Spirit's Gifts.

I pray in tongues most of the time. I was really asking God to teach me to pray. Well, He answered my prayer but not as I expected. I was really asking to pray better in English. Words didn't come easy for me in prayer or even flow like some people I heard pray in English. And I've heard some really heartfelt and powerful prayers in English. But they didn't pray in tongues ever.

As Paul said:

1Co 14:22,23 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

I always wondered if an unbelievers came in to a church, what would he think or even somebody that's Born Again but doesn't pray in tongues would say. Are ye all mad??? They have lost their mind???

And to put a burden on somebody saying they need to pray in tongues to prove they are baptized by the Holy Spirit is wrong...IMHO

While I agree that over-emphasis on tongues is wrong, your argument about Jesus isn't valid. Tongues that are not interpreted are for edification of oneself (or one's own spirit) and I know that Jesus had no need for such edification.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Who are the "some"?

Who are "they"?

Here is how you do it.
1. Type this into your broswer address box: www.google.com
2. In the seach box, type in something like "tongues are of the devil" or "tongues have passed away".
3. Press the submit button.

You will recieve a long list of sites. Some pro and some con.
I found a couple dozen in about 2 minutes.

 

[RevKidd]

Here is how you do it.
1. Type this into your broswer address box: www.google.com
2. In the seach box, type in something like "tongues are of the devil" or "tongues have passed away".
3. Press the submit button.

You will recieve a long list of sites. Some pro and some con.
I found a couple dozen in about 2 minutes.

Isn't it a shame that there are those who, despite what the word says, forgetting that God is the same yesterday, today, & forever, deny that God can and still does work in the same manner.

 

[Andrew]

Let me ask this.
Scripture also states that tongues is for the unbelievers. How many times have you ever seen the unsaved praying for someone to get the Holy Ghost? Why do we the believers, look for tongues as the "Initial Sign" when tongues are for the lost?

The Bible does not say that tongues is for unbelievers, it says that it is a SIGN for unbelievers:

22 Thus, tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is not for unbelievers but for believers.

So like on the day of Pentecost, when the disciples (believers) spoke in tongues, the event/phenomenon became a SIGN for the unbelievers there who heard the tongues.

And becos of this SIGN that pointed them to something more, they questioned and asked about it, and Peter stood up and preached, and got them saved.

Thus, tongues is a sign for unbelievers. It still happens today. Sometimes in a church, someone stands up and speaks in a tongue. Someone else then interprets.

An unbeliever, who happens to be there, recognises that the tongue is his own native language, say Korean, and that the interpretation was correct. He assumes that the speaker and interpreter have learnt Korean, but when he learns that they have not and are just speaking in tongues, he sees that it is a sign from God, a miraculous event. so it becomes a sign for him.