Muslims what is Surah 9:30 all about?

[GeorgeTwo]

According to the Qur'an Jews and Christians are cursed. "May Allah destroy them."

Literal
(Word by Word) And said the Jews, "Uzair (is) son (of) Allah." And said the Christians, "Messiah (is) son (of) Allah." That (is) their saying with their mouths, they imitate the saying (of) those who disbelieved before. (May) Allah destroy them. How deluded are they!

Surah 9:30

Shakir And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

Yusuf Ali (Saudi Rev. 1985) The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

I don't understand what is so horrible about considering someone a son of God when Psalm 2 says:

7 I will tell of the decree; The Lord said to me, "You are My son; this day have I begotten you.

Why wasn't a curse put upon Jews for God saying King David was God's son -- "this day have I begotten you." ?

Thank you.

 

[JD16]

I don't understand what is so horrible about considering someone a son of God

Short answer, to prescribe Allah/Yahweh with any progeny is considered blasphemy in Islam.

 

[GeorgeTwo]

Short answer, to prescribe Allah/Yahweh with any progeny is considered blasphemy in Islam.

So you are saying that Allah thought "son of God" meant God had sex with a woman and produced a child?

 

[JD16]

So you are saying that Allah thought "son of God" meant God had sex with a woman and produced a child?

How did you come up with that crap? It simply means what I stated...nothing more, nothing less.

 

[GeorgeTwo]

How did you come up with that crap? It simply means what I stated...nothing more, nothing less.

Because I asked an Arabic speaking Christian and an Arabic speaking Muslim what Surah 10:68 meant by "begotten."

Yusuf Ali (Saudi Rev. 1985)

They say: "Allah hath begotten a son!" - Glory be to Him! He is self-sufficient! His are all things in the heavens and on earth! No warrant have ye for this! say ye about Allah what ye know not?

They both said:

"qol houwa allahu ahadon, allahou assamad, lam yaled walam youlad..."

lam yaled= he didn't give birth to a child
lam youlad: he wasn't born

"These two denote sexual relationship...giving birth in the physical, material sense..."

And because of commentaries in my Qur'an:

"Begetting a son is a physical act depending on the needs of men's animal nature. God Most High is independent of all needs, and it is derogatory to Him to attribute such an act to Him. It is merely a relic of pagan and anthropomorphic materialist superstitions."

and,

"It is a derogation from the glory of God in fact it is blasphemyto say that God begets sons, like a man or an animal. The Christian doctrine is here emphatically repudiated. If words have any meaning, it would mean an attribution to God of a material nature, and of the lower animal functions of sex."

 

[JD16]

Surah 10:68

They have said,(Christians and Jews) " Allah has taken a son.(Uzair for the jews, David/Christ for Christians)" Exalted is He; He is the [one] Free of need. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth.(Boastful and proud by claiming to be God's son) You have no authority for this [claim].(Corrupting scriptures) Do you say about Allah that which you do not know?(Allah did not reveal this, therefore claiming he did is blasphemy)

The bold emphasis is my interpretation of that verse.

 

[CherubRam]

So you are saying that Allah thought "son of God" meant God had sex with a woman and produced a child?

I have tried telling Muslims that the term "Son-s of God" is parabolic, but they do not get it. They think the term is associated with sex.

 

[CherubRam]

Surah 10:68

They have said,(Christians and Jews) " Allah has taken a son.(Uzair for the jews, David/Christ for Christians)" Exalted is He; He is the [one] Free of need. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth.(Boastful and proud by claiming to be God's son) You have no authority for this [claim].(Corrupting scriptures) Do you say about Allah that which you do not know?(Allah did not reveal this, therefore claiming he did is blasphemy)

The bold emphasis is my interpretation of that verse.

Here is what God said through Daniel:
Psalm 82:6
“I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’
But you will die like mere mortals;
you will fall like every other ruler.”

 

[CherubRam]

Surah 10:68

They have said,(Christians and Jews) " Allah has taken a son.(Uzair for the jews, David/Christ for Christians)" Exalted is He; He is the [one] Free of need. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth.(Boastful and proud by claiming to be God's son) You have no authority for this [claim].(Corrupting scriptures) Do you say about Allah that which you do not know?(Allah did not reveal this, therefore claiming he did is blasphemy)

The bold emphasis is my interpretation of that verse.

There god Allah is ignorant of the parables in the bible. That shows you proof that the Quran is not divinely inspired by God.

 

[GeorgeTwo]

I have tried telling Muslims that the term "Son-s of God" is parabolic, but they do not get it. They think the term is associated with sex.

The term "god of God" means a closeness with God, chosen one as in the case of King David -- a special relationship.

Muslims get their mistaken idea from their Allah in the Qur'an. He thought carnally and this is a mistaken conclusion.

Job 38:4 "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding. 5 Who determined its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? 6 To what were its foundations fastened? Or who laid its cornerstone, 7 when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God [beney 'elohim] shouted for joy? (NKJV)

God is calling his angels "sons of God.

And further proof:

And they make the jinn associates with Allah, while He created them, and they falsely attribute to Him sons and daughters without knowledge; glory be to Him, and highly exalted is He above what they ascribe (to Him). Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth! How could He have a son when He has no consort, and He (Himself) created everything, and He is the Knower of all things. S. 6:100-101 Shakir

Allah needs a wife in order to have a son -- sex again.

But according to the Qur'an Mary had a son without a husband. Mary could do what Allah could not do???

 

[CherubRam]

Adoption to sonship


Malachi 2:15

Has not the one God made you? You belong to him in body and spirit. And what does the one God seek? Godly offspring.



Romans 8:15

The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”


Romans 8:23

Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.


Romans 9:4

the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption to sonship; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises.


Galatians 4:5

to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.


Ephesians 1:5

he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—

 

[Arthra]

I think to better understand the verses cited above in Surih 9 "Al-Tawba":30 we should include the verse 31 as well:

The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of God," and the Christians say, "The Messiah is the son of God." These are but their baseless utterances. They imitate the assertions made in earlier times by those who deny the truth. May God destroy them! How far astray they have been led! (30) They have taken their learned men and their monks for their lords besides God. So have they taken the Messiah, son of Mary, although they were commanded to worship only the One God. There is no deity but He. He is far above whatever they set up as His partners!(31)

You'll recall what the Lord Jesus responded when asked what was the greatest commandment?

"The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

(King James Bible, Mark)

 

[CherubRam]

I am not a Trinitarian.

 

[GeorgeTwo]

Here is what God said through Daniel:
Psalm 82:6
“I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’
But you will die like mere mortals;
you will fall like every other ruler.”

What is your understanding of Psalm 82:6?

 

[CherubRam]

What is your understanding of Psalm 82:6?

God is saying that we (The Elect) have life immortal before that gift is given. The dammed are not given life immortal; they die and are no more.

 

[GeorgeTwo]

God is saying that we (The Elect) have life immortal before that gift is given. The dammed are not given life immortal; they die and are no more.

Question: "What does the Bible mean by 'you are gods' / 'ye are gods' in Psalm 82:6 and John 10:34?"

Answer: Let’s start with a look at Psalm 82, the psalm that Jesus quotes in John 10:34. The Hebrew word translated “gods” in Psalm 82:6 is Elohim. It usually refers to the one true God, but it does have other uses. Psalm 82:1 says, “God presides in the great assembly; he gives judgment among the gods.” It is clear from the next three verses that the word “gods” refers to magistrates, judges, and other people who hold positions of authority and rule. Calling a human magistrate a “god” indicates three things: 1) he has authority over other human beings, 2) the power he wields as a civil authority is to be feared, and 3) he derives his power and authority from God Himself, who is pictured as judging the whole earth in verse 8.

This use of the word “gods” to refer to humans is rare, but it is found elsewhere in the Old Testament. For example, when God sent Moses to Pharaoh, He said, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh” (Exodus 7:1). This simply means that Moses, as the messenger of God, was speaking God’s words and would therefore be God’s representative to the king. The Hebrew word Elohim is translated “judges” in Exodus 21:6 and 22:8, 9, and 28.

The whole point of Psalm 82 is that earthly judges must act with impartiality and true justice, because even judges must stand someday before the Judge. Verses 6 and 7 warn human magistrates that they, too, must be judged: “I said, `You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High.' But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler.” This passage is saying that God has appointed men to positions of authority in which they are considered as gods among the people. They are to remember that, even though they are representing God in this world, they are mortal and must eventually give an account to God for how they used that authority.

Now, let’s look at how Jesus uses this passage. Jesus had just claimed to be the Son of God (John 10:25-30). The unbelieving Jews respond by charging Jesus with blasphemy, since He claimed to be God (verse 33). Jesus then quotes Psalm 82:6, reminding the Jews that the Law refers to mere men—albeit men of authority and prestige—as “gods.” Jesus’ point is this: you charge me with blasphemy based on my use of the title “Son of God”; yet your own Scriptures apply the same term to magistrates in general. If those who hold a divinely appointed office can be considered “gods,” how much more can the One whom God has chosen and sent (verses 34-36)?

In contrast, we have the serpent’s lie to Eve in the Garden. His statement, “your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil” (Genesis 3:5), was a half-truth. Their eyes were opened (verse 7), but they did not become like God. In fact, they lost authority, rather than gaining it. Satan deceived Eve about her ability to become like the one true God, and so led her into a lie. Jesus defended His claim to be the Son of God on biblical and semantic grounds—there is a sense in which influential men can be thought of as gods; therefore, the Messiah can rightly apply the term to Himself. Human beings are not “gods” or “little gods.” We are not God. God is God, and we who know Christ are His children. (Got Questions)

 

[CherubRam]

Question: "What does the Bible mean by 'you are gods' / 'ye are gods' in Psalm 82:6 and John 10:34?"

Answer: Let’s start with a look at Psalm 82, the psalm that Jesus quotes in John 10:34. The Hebrew word translated “gods” in Psalm 82:6 is Elohim. It usually refers to the one true God, but it does have other uses. Psalm 82:1 says, “God presides in the great assembly; he gives judgment among the gods.” It is clear from the next three verses that the word “gods” refers to magistrates, judges, and other people who hold positions of authority and rule. Calling a human magistrate a “god” indicates three things: 1) he has authority over other human beings, 2) the power he wields as a civil authority is to be feared, and 3) he derives his power and authority from God Himself, who is pictured as judging the whole earth in verse 8.

This use of the word “gods” to refer to humans is rare, but it is found elsewhere in the Old Testament. For example, when God sent Moses to Pharaoh, He said, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh” (Exodus 7:1). This simply means that Moses, as the messenger of God, was speaking God’s words and would therefore be God’s representative to the king. The Hebrew word Elohim is translated “judges” in Exodus 21:6 and 22:8, 9, and 28.

The whole point of Psalm 82 is that earthly judges must act with impartiality and true justice, because even judges must stand someday before the Judge. Verses 6 and 7 warn human magistrates that they, too, must be judged: “I said, `You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High.' But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler.” This passage is saying that God has appointed men to positions of authority in which they are considered as gods among the people. They are to remember that, even though they are representing God in this world, they are mortal and must eventually give an account to God for how they used that authority.

Now, let’s look at how Jesus uses this passage. Jesus had just claimed to be the Son of God (John 10:25-30). The unbelieving Jews respond by charging Jesus with blasphemy, since He claimed to be God (verse 33). Jesus then quotes Psalm 82:6, reminding the Jews that the Law refers to mere men—albeit men of authority and prestige—as “gods.” Jesus’ point is this: you charge me with blasphemy based on my use of the title “Son of God”; yet your own Scriptures apply the same term to magistrates in general. If those who hold a divinely appointed office can be considered “gods,” how much more can the One whom God has chosen and sent (verses 34-36)?

In contrast, we have the serpent’s lie to Eve in the Garden. His statement, “your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil” (Genesis 3:5), was a half-truth. Their eyes were opened (verse 7), but they did not become like God. In fact, they lost authority, rather than gaining it. Satan deceived Eve about her ability to become like the one true God, and so led her into a lie. Jesus defended His claim to be the Son of God on biblical and semantic grounds—there is a sense in which influential men can be thought of as gods; therefore, the Messiah can rightly apply the term to Himself. Human beings are not “gods” or “little gods.” We are not God. God is God, and we who know Christ are His children. (Got Questions)

The KJV translates Strong's H430 in the following manner: God (2,346x), god (244x), judge (5x), GOD (1x), goddess (2x), great (2x), mighty (2x), angels (1x), exceeding (1x), God-ward (with H4136) (1x), godly (1x).

 

[GeorgeTwo]

The KJV translates Strong's H430 in the following manner: God (2,346x), god (244x), judge (5x), GOD (1x), goddess (2x), great (2x), mighty (2x), angels (1x), exceeding (1x), God-ward (with H4136) (1x), godly (1x).

And your point is?

 

[suhail380]

I have tried telling Muslims that the term "Son-s of God" is parabolic, but they do not get it. They think the term is associated with sex.

You are a non-trinity. that' is fine. What are views on Jesus, Holy Spirit and God? God bless you!

 

[suhail380]

You are a non-trinity. that' is fine. What are your views on Jesus, Holy Spirit and God? How do you differentiate between them?

God bless you!