Muslim man sues Little Caesars, claiming 'halal' was a lie in Dearborn

Ygrene Imref

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I bit into an apple once and found a worm. I sued the farmer for ruining my vegetarian diet, the worm sued me for property damage, and the apple sued the worm for reasons still unknown.

This is facetious I believe, but it is actually a great example of why God chooses Justice over fairness - like the fairness that says God will avenge me for what my enemy did. Everyone would, then, go to hell.

Another thread, another time perhaps.
 
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In the Muslim's case the damage is tantamount to damnation - easily arguable and usable as a damage incurred, especially since religious freedoms (and rights associated with them recognized by the State) are a liberty to citizens in the Western world.

I don't say that because I think you don't know; I say it to highlight this as an example of otherwise "good law" being qualifiably usable for a seemingly ignorant reason. It is also an example of the "yoke" defense attorneys have to carry - using the law to defend ignorant, but protected activity and thought.

I could never entrust my eternity to Little Caesar.

Papa John...maybe.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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In the Muslim's case the damage is tantamount to damnation - easily arguable and usable as a damage incurred, especially since religious freedoms (and rights associated with them recognized by the State) are a liberty to citizens in the Western world.

One's ultimate "damnation" would be rather difficult to prove in court, I suspect. o_O The court has to decide on the facts not the beliefs. Even claims of mental pain and suffering must be substantiated by the demonstrable 'damnation' of this man's soul after his death.
 
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Ygrene Imref

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Care must be taken. This man might be looking for a personal excuse to wage jihad.

Again, another facetious post that actually has deeper implications.

At this point, there is no surprising way to use the old "Jihad" patsy. But, it is actually a serious issue - to eat unclean meat. As I said, I believe it is highly unrealistic to go any chain fast food, grocery, or restaurant expecting to find Kosher, Halal, or non-GMO foods. But, if this company advertised its product as Halal (or Kosher, or non-GMO,) then that company needs to be held accountable.

And, since this is a serious religious issue (could you imagine serving pork disguised as something else to Hebrews during Passover?) I do think the Western world (not a call out at all, just in general) is ignorant of this, because Christianity (depending on who you speak to) does NOT bar eating certain meats or foods. In the West, there is mainly "Christolicism," and "Agnosteism;" there certainly isn't a general awareness of the magnitude of how eating unclean meat can profoundly harm a person. There are Jewish people in the West, clearly, but many (at least in NYC and LA, in my experience) do NOT necessarily follow strict laws of health. And, recently the West has been exposed to Islam in an atrocious way, and America specifically was likely first exposed to the intricacies of Islam through 9/11 - enough so that there is a general knowledge of the religion.

It honestly depends on who will be on each "team," in determining where this thing will go - if anywhere. With a good enough lawyer, not only can the customer get a decent payoff (for damages; it is a damnable act) but the issue can also take multiple "social justice," or religious recognition directions.
 
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archer75

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I can't claim any expertise or even familiarity with the relevant legal concepts. But, clam-jokes aside, Little Caesar's advertised this way to attract certain potential customers. Why should they get the customers and not have to go to the trouble to provide the product? Put up or shut up.
 
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dzheremi

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If the damages need to be awarded according to the man's personal belief that he will go to hell for having mistakenly and without his consent eaten pork via Little Caesars, then shouldn't the damages awarded be zero? After all, what amount of money could possibly ameliorate the apparently unalterable decision made to damn a person for making a mistake?

Also, geez, what a jerk that makes the Islamic god seem like. The man ought to sue God (it wouldn't be the first time), as well as his parents and wider community for making him so neurotic by essentially forcing him into this situation on account of his religion.

My Church is way more serious about dietary regulations than Islam is, and yet I can tell you (because I've asked) that if I were to ask my priest or bishop what we are to do if we accidentally eat meat or are in a situation where we have to eat meat during the fasts (e.g., non-Orthodox family obligations with no alternatives), they'd tell me to stop thinking about fasting that way and just keep trying; don't let it drive me crazy. Where's that option for Muslims?

Anyway, the man should definitely get something purely based on the idea that companies should be held to their advertising claims, but such an exorbitant sum seems ridiculous.
 
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Ygrene Imref

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One's ultimate "damnation" would be rather difficult to prove in court, I suspect. o_O The court has to decide on the facts not the beliefs. Even claims of mental pain and suffering must be substantiated by the demonstrable 'damnation' of this man's soul after his death.

They don't even need to do all of that (in most other cases, absolutely,) because the company allegedly falsely advertised their product. And, if that is sufficiently proven, the issues of intent, negligence, breach, fraud, etc. would consequentially come up as an addition to the base.

The successful argument of intent could turn this into a religious discrimination matter - especially since these were pizzas sold during a well known religious holiday. Even if there was no malicious intent, that would imply negligence in handling and advertising. Depending on the degree of those, we go into whether or not a fraud was committed, and what type of fraud it would be.

And, since there are already legal precedents for this type of event, the customer already begins at an advantage. But this could get big incredibly quick depending on who represents who.
 
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archer75

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If the damages need to be awarded according to the man's personal belief that he will go to hell for having mistakenly and without his consent eaten pork via Little Caesars, then shouldn't the damages awarded be zero? After all, what amount of money could possibly ameliorate the apparently unalterable decision made to damn a person for making a mistake?

Also, geez, what a jerk that makes the Islamic god seem like. The man ought to sue God (it wouldn't be the first time), as well as his parents and wider community for making him so neurotic by essentially forcing him into this situation on account of his religion.

My Church is way more serious about dietary regulations than Islam is, and yet I can tell you (because I've asked) that if I were to ask my priest or bishop what we are to do if we accidentally eat meat or are in a situation where we have to eat meat during the fasts (e.g., non-Orthodox family obligations with no alternatives), they'd tell me to stop thinking about fasting that way and just keep trying; don't let it drive me crazy. Where's that option for Muslims?

Anyway, the man should definitely get something purely based on the idea that companies should be held to their advertising claims, but such an exorbitant sum seems ridiculous.
I think there was a post above suggesting that he should expect a tiny fraction of that, if anything.

I agree that the pizza place shouldn't be responsible for a straitjacket-like understanding of the guy's dietary laws - and the more I learn about EO and OO - specifically Coptic - fasting, the cooler I think it is - but I think they should be responsible for seeing that the product they provide is what they advertise.
 
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Ygrene Imref

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If the damages need to be awarded according to the man's personal belief that he will go to hell for having mistakenly and without his consent eaten pork via Little Caesars, then shouldn't the damages awarded be zero? After all, what amount of money could possibly ameliorate the apparently unalterable decision made to damn a person for making a mistake?

Also, geez, what a jerk that makes the Islamic god seem like. The man ought to sue God (it wouldn't be the first time), as well as his parents and wider community for making him so neurotic by essentially forcing him into this situation on account of his religion.

My Church is way more serious about dietary regulations than Islam is, and yet I can tell you (because I've asked) that if I were to ask my priest or bishop what we are to do if we accidentally eat meat or are in a situation where we have to eat meat during the fasts (e.g., non-Orthodox family obligations with no alternatives), they'd tell me to stop thinking about fasting that way and just keep trying; don't let it drive me crazy. Where's that option for Muslims?

Anyway, the man should definitely get something purely based on the idea that companies should be held to their advertising claims, but such an exorbitant sum seems ridiculous.

The legal base the customer has for any suit is the false advertisement. The religious legal breaches if applicable come up as a consequence, and addition to the claim.
It is frivolous, but the customer scored HUGE, because if they prove LC falsely advertised their product, then all the things that would get thrown out on their own (like circumstantial evidence, precedents and intent) will have to be considered.

And, this is how the "law" works both ways - turning a allegedly frivolous issue into a potentially gargantuan social and epicurean/health issue, and diverging into every possible legal facet in fractal pattern. If the LC advertised pork for a Halal dish, then they falsely advertised. Now it just depends on who represents who.
 
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Ygrene Imref

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I have done a little investigative work on some civil cases and I usually got frustrated how commercial defendants settle so quickly to defray publicity and legal fees.
I get it, but I still don't like it.

I am personally of the philosophy of others who have already stated that we are ultimately responsible for our religious and/or health dietary needs - not INCs, or even other humans.

But, LC just really messed up, and they should know it soon if they already dont. So, they will likely settle - but nowhere near $100,000,000.

People generally ask for a certain percentage of what they actually want according to a bunch of modeled parameters. This customer - on the surface - would probably be happy with $1M, and settle for $375,000 (my estimation.) Asking for such a amount of money for such a case actually reveals his "hand," but not in this case since likely LC falsely advertised. And, since we have the issue of religion, and it's proximity to a religious holy season, that will increase the amount to about $5,000,000 he would be happy with, and would be willing to settle for $3M or less. By the time he pays his lawyer(s), taxes and fees, the customer will likely walk away with about $850,000.

It's really messed up, but it was even more messed up that LC allegedly did this - because it is, then, a testament to the handling and food safety principles, as well as all of food, INC.

Although, we do live on Earth. I wouldn't be surprised if LC orchestrated this in order to advertise their products. Honestly, it makes me hungry talking about the subject. And, LC is the first thing on my mind. If I ate pepperoni, I would likely drive to the nearest LC. And, I havent eaten LC in 20 years. If I had a prejudice against Islam, I would likely buy a pie out of protest, or spite. It would be quite the ingenious marketing ploy especially during this time in history. $3,000,000 isn't that much for an advertisement that will go on every major channel, perpetually (i.e. it will be news repeated daily if it gets to that point.)
 
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section9+1

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An apology, a refund and maybe a free pizza. Anything else is excessive. If a restaurant gets my order wrong, I tell them and they redo it. No problem. As long as no one is deliberately trying to hurt like adding rat poison or adding filth, no big deal. They just gave him the wrong food, but it was still food. He's just looking for money.
 
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Hank77

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So let me get this straight. They bought a pizza in March that had pork on it and “got sick to their stomachs” filed a police report, AND THEN THEY WENT BACK TWO MONTHS LATER??!! Oh, and he was quick to file the lawsuit too. To protect the Muslim public no doubt…
I hope they toss the lawsuit in the trash where it belongs.
Maybe he is wanting to collect the money that he and his group feel was wrongly distributed in another case.
One assumes that he assumes that figure would be knocked way down along the way.
The case was settled for $700,000. However, some Muslims, including a group led by Moughni, said the settlement money should have gone to the Muslims affected, not to organizations that were based in Detroit or not affiliated with Islam.
Also, Little Caesars may have learned the lesson not to offer halal food anymore. God forbid you get it wrong!
I think a Muslim should open his/her own Little Caesars for the Muslim community. Maybe that is why this guy wants some big money.
 
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RDKirk

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Case in point. McDonald's was successfully sued for scalding hot coffee which injured a customer (I can attest that their coffee was often much too hot). This was standard practice throughout the company, including franchise stores. Accidently or carelessly using the wrong meat topping is not only not a company wide practice but not even a single franchise practice, unless the employee was ordered to do so by the owner or manager. Failing this test all liability falls on the individual employee..

The point MacDonald's lost the case on was that there were internal memos from their consumer division and a couple of other divisions warning that the coffee was too hot and would needlessly injure customers.

A similar thing happened with Ford over the possible fire danger of their Pinto compact: There had been internal memos warning of the problem and even an internal report that it would be cheaper to pay the predicted number of death claims than to recall and retrofit the vehicles. The jury nailed them.
 
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RDKirk

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I would think this is cause for hope. The Muslim who brought this suit is obviously assimilating well to US culture, he has already adopted our litigiousness.

This is actually a soft manifestation of Salafi doctrine, which in its most energetic manifestation results in young men joining ISIS.
 
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This is actually a soft manifestation of Salafi doctrine, which in its most energetic manifestation results in young men joining ISIS.
...or alternatively he's just another slub looking to win the liability lottery.
 
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