Music: If it feels good, do it!

[zanness]

You reveal a lot in your post.

You are a Baptist, congratulations,my self I live for Christ first and share common ideals with my Faith group.

Did Christ teach us a gospel of inclusion?

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Now this explains the difference between flesh of the world,and the spirit of God in our being.
To be led by the spirit we are sons of God.

If you have a mind of flesh,you will obsess over fleshly things to the point of dwelling more on flesh than the body of Christ.
Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

This is our commission,we cannot complete it by being excluded from the world.

We are not of the flesh of this world,this is the context you are trying to convey.

But you are obsessed with the flesh,and you believe by inclusion you are righteous.

Romans 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

The verses posted are Christian fundamentals,yet they are posted time and time again.

My take on ( strain at a Nat) is to worry about drums. (Swallow a Camel) each time a lost soul is run away from Church.

in your response, please view the part ' for thou that judgest doest the same things'. Apprehending a fellow brother doesnt mean judging. That is why, please use only King James Version. Like i said, if you read that verse in other Bibles, the meaning of judge would have been lost. Fortunately in KJV, if you read the meaning of judge, and compare it in greek, you would have known that judge is to lay punishment. Christian fundamentals, well who am i to say you have none. But, still, through ur accusations, shallow it may seem, i have to say, Paul in many places in the Bible scolds and rebukes the churches, more so in Corinthians. So Paul should not rebuke them? OF COS NOT. Paul must rebuke them because they are not doing it the way God wants them to. Similarly in this case, if i know of a truth and i rebuke it out, does that mean im obssesed with the flesh and believing im righteous? We all have the responsibility, to perform the christian's commission, needless to be reminded too, we have quite a number of other sub responsibilities too. Discipleship. Even Edifying in faith, and also correcting fellow brothers. Romans touches alot on salvation. I think, the topic here, isnt anymore on the salvation part. It is more to after salvation. Comparisons of living for the flesh and for the spirit. Comparisons of possessing the holy spirit and living after the lusts of the flesh put it that way.

 

[zanness]

Not only do I drink beer, I make it as well. I also smoke a pipe. Kind of like that ol' Baptist preacher named Charles Spurgeon smoked cigars. You ever heard of him?

Charles spurgeon was a great baptist preacher. But in his old age, is quite not a good testimony if you did your research well. IN fact, he actually declared Calvinism is the gospel. Imagine you taking him as a good example. May i suggest you refer to a greater example such as D.L. Moody.

 

[zanness]

To begin with, did you know that Baptists are not protestants?
Baptists were prosecuted from day one of Catholics all the way down till free religion era. Baptists were even prosecuted by the Methodists, Charismatics, Anglicans, Lutherans, Calvanisms, Free masons, and all those which decided to partner with the catholics to persecute the baptists because they felt Baptists were cults. While the fact is it was the Baptists that do not deviate from the Bible truths and stick close to it. BAPTISTS, should not compromise, in any forms of worship and believes based on the Bible. That is Baptists.. The best example is D.L.Moody, one that gave his life full as a baptist preacher to God.

 

[guuila]

To begin with, did you know that Baptists are not protestants?
Baptists were prosecuted from day one of Catholics all the way down till free religion era. Baptists were even prosecuted by the Methodists, Charismatics, Anglicans, Lutherans, Calvanisms, Free masons, and all those which decided to partner with the catholics to persecute the baptists because they felt Baptists were cults. While the fact is it was the Baptists that do not deviate from the Bible truths and stick close to it. BAPTISTS, should not compromise, in any forms of worship and believes based on the Bible. That is Baptists.. The best example is D.L.Moody, one that gave his life full as a baptist preacher to God.

What are Calvanisms?

 

[zanness]

I think if you google it. You will find out a lot. I cant post any links to u because of limited accessibility. But, do pm me if you really need a good link.

Thanks.

 

[now faith]

in your response, please view the part ' for thou that judgest doest the same things'. Apprehending a fellow brother doesnt mean judging. That is why, please use only King James Version. Like i said, if you read that verse in other Bibles, the meaning of judge would have been lost. Fortunately in KJV, if you read the meaning of judge, and compare it in greek, you would have known that judge is to lay punishment. Christian fundamentals, well who am i to say you have none. But, still, through ur accusations, shallow it may seem, i have to say, Paul in many places in the Bible scolds and rebukes the churches, more so in Corinthians. So Paul should not rebuke them? OF COS NOT. Paul must rebuke them because they are not doing it the way God wants them to. Similarly in this case, if i know of a truth and i rebuke it out, does that mean im obssesed with the flesh and believing im righteous? We all have the responsibility, to perform the christian's commission, needless to be reminded too, we have quite a number of other sub responsibilities too. Discipleship. Even Edifying in faith, and also correcting fellow brothers. Romans touches alot on salvation. I think, the topic here, isnt anymore on the salvation part. It is more to after salvation. Comparisons of living for the flesh and for the spirit. Comparisons of possessing the holy spirit and living after the lusts of the flesh put it that way.

Well brother,that is the good thing in the forums.
Iron sharpens iron.

I thank you for the fellowship,but I hope that you know my reasons for posting have good intent.
Forgive me in offending you.
The verses were from King James,it is the only bible I ever use.

God bless

 

[zanness]

No worries brother. I meant no offence too. Like i said, instead of wasting time doing nth, i decided to participate in forums to share on some knowledge or learn some. I think its good that we discuss and exchange knowledge. In fact i've really got some very exciting and interesting things to share regarding rapture. I should start a thread regarding that, might do one. who knows.

I think the primary concern is to edify more saved christians, and ensure their salvation, and also spread the Word in a way which promotes the former two matters.

If we believe Jesus is coming back, our lives should reflect it. Else, we are just selfish people.

Amen,

 

[Hammster]

We dont live under the law.. neither do we live under anyone's rule. Did i show you something or offended you with personal opinions ? Or are you offended that because i showed you verses from the Bible that instructs us to be separated from the world? Get that point straighten out.

You didn't offend me. But you did show your personal opinion. And you did show verses that say to be separated from the world.

What you DIDN'T show was that the use of instruments (and apparently drums are your sticking point) are sinful. All you've shown is conjecture.

 

[Hammster]

Drug addiction, something of good measure and biblically practiced? Smoking, drinking, something the Bible says is good?

Anyways, i think my point is well portrayed out. Our body is the holy temple of God, hence we dont pollute it or damage it with drugs or smoking or alcohols. Yet, these are not mentioned in the Bible. Similarly to the type of music we listen to. A common practice done by the voodoos to invite evil spirits. And we are asked not to be equally yoked with Belial. And here you are disputing that this is my personal opinion. Well, i think its a very clear cut comparison on similar biblical applications which people bluntly ignore, more disappointing when the Baptists dont uphold their history and doctrines.

I've posted two videos. Are voodoo practices evident?

 

[Hammster]

What are Calvanisms?

I googled it. Nothing.

 

[Hammster]

No worries brother. I meant no offence too. Like i said, instead of wasting time doing nth, i decided to participate in forums to share on some knowledge or learn some. I think its good that we discuss and exchange knowledge. In fact i've really got some very exciting and interesting things to share regarding rapture. I should start a thread regarding that, might do one. who knows.

I think the primary concern is to edify more saved christians, and ensure their salvation, and also spread the Word in a way which promotes the former two matters.

If we believe Jesus is coming back, our lives should reflect it. Else, we are just selfish people.

Amen,

One thing to consider. There may be people on here that know a bit more than you. People who are your seniors by a good margin. People who have tackled these issues and dug deeper than surface level arguments.

This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. (Matthew 15:8-11 KJV)

If you think this passage is solely about food, you are in error. It's also about what we are discussing. You see the use of drum as sinful. But it's not the use of drums that is sinful. It's the improper use of drums that is sinful.

Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. (1 Corinthians 10:31 KJV)

Notice "whatsoever ye do". This includes the use of drums. Just because some people abuse drums, it doesn't make the use of drums sinful.

I respect your eagerness to do what you feel is right. And it's possible that if your conscience is convicted that drums are sinful, then for you they are. I, and others, are not under this conviction. Thus, they are not sinful for us.

 

[guuila]

I think that pretty much settles it.

 

[guuila]

Charles spurgeon was a great baptist preacher. But in his old age, is quite not a good testimony if you did your research well.

How?

IN fact, he actually declared Calvinism is the gospel.

I have no problem with that.

 

[now faith]

One thing to consider. There may be people on here that know a bit more than you. People who are your seniors by a good margin. People who have tackled these issues and dug deeper than surface level arguments.

This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. (Matthew 15:8-11 KJV)

If you think this passage is solely about food, you are in error. It's also about what we are discussing. You see the use of drum as sinful. But it's not the use of drums that is sinful. It's the improper use of drums that is sinful.

Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. (1 Corinthians 10:31 KJV)

Notice "whatsoever ye do". This includes the use of drums. Just because some people abuse drums, it doesn't make the use of drums sinful.

I respect your eagerness to do what you feel is right. And it's possible that if your conscience is convicted that drums are sinful, then for you they are. I, and others, are not under this conviction. Thus, they are not sinful for us.

Amen

I am learning from the forums every day!
lol when I first started here,I could barely type and had never been in a online forum.

Still can barely type,but I did learn quickly the quality of people here.
I assumed it was a chat room with lay people spouting off,and I most likely offended many.

Well I come to learn that many here are Pastors and Teachers with a background of degrees.

So I try to think a bit before I click,and have a respect for others here.
You can help others here and learn for the promotion of Gods kingdom

 

[ST1TCH]

3) In reference to St1tch,
I think you should know some Baptist history. In addition to KJV bibles. The labelling of heathen was done by solely you. But never the less, lets talk about it. ESV NIV so so so... The Bible is most accurate in its original language. NO OBJECTION TO THAT. And when we read and interpret the Bible, each word matters. the word LORD and the word Lord is a different Greek word. So is JOY or SAD. There are constantly many words which have different meaning in greek. HOWEVER, with the corrupted translation done in newer versions of the Bible, the meaning is lost. a verse may have about 10 meanings, but with the new versions of the Bible, it is limited to only 2 or 3 meanings. Having said so, WHY KJV? Because the translation from Greek to english at that time, is the CLOSEST we can get. UNLIKE the 'modern' Bibles now which is also a way Satan minimizes the Bible's power.

So now my knowledge of Baptist history is called into question, nice.
Trust me, I've been in a Baptist church (early on Free Will and since high school Southern Baptist) since I was born. Which is probably longer than you've been alive. My father has been either a Pastor or Teacher throughout my life. I adhere to the Baptist Faith and Message (The Baptist Faith & Message) and oddly enough, the legalism you're pushing isn't found in that document anywhere.

As for the KJV versus 'modern' Bibles...yeah, I'm sure those 16th century English guys, under order of the King of England where much better scholars of Greek and Hebrew. Today's scholars pale in comparison, right? Laughable.

Not to mention if you bothered to compare verses between KJV, ESV and NASB; you'd have a hard time finding where the meaning of a verse has changed. That's the beauty of God's word, it's unchangeable and He controls the men who labor over making these newer translations to hold true to the original text (not to mention we now have more original text than they had when creating the KJV).

I think for ST1TCH's case, he's more of a 'modern' christian which he finds his own justification from the Bible. The entire thing is not being conformed to the world as the Bible instructed, and even at that time, NT, do u see Peter or Paul or Steven, when they start churches, do you see their celebrations of much extravagant manner?

And now personal attacks against my Christianity. Wonderful. Guess I'm a 'modern' Christian. Thanks for making my point though, that I find my "own justification from the Bible". Pity you can't justify your legalism from the same Bible.

I think this will make my 3rd or 4th time posting this scripture in this thread, but it evidently bears repeating since you don't think it's applicable anymore either (I'll even post it in your beloved KJV):

Psalm 150

King James Version (KJV)

150 Praise ye the Lord. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.
2 Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.
3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
5 Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
6 Let every thing that hath breath praise the Lord. Praise ye the Lord.

Last time I checked, guitars are "stringed instruments"...

 

[strelok0017]

Charles spurgeon was a great baptist preacher. But in his old age, is quite not a good testimony if you did your research well. IN fact, he actually declared Calvinism is the gospel. Imagine you taking him as a good example. May i suggest you refer to a greater example such as D.L. Moody.

Greater in God's eyes? Not so.

 

[strelok0017]

"Let those who are legalists continue to be legalists and those who hate drums continue to hate drums..."
2 Opinions 5:14 NKJV

God made music for us, and us for Himself, therefore music serves and can help us worship Him.

 

[Bella Vita]

My husband is the worship director and leader at our Baptist church. And I can tell you we do hymns with modern arrangements. And we have some of the most authentic worship I have ever been apart of. People at our church cry out they yell they sing they don't care how they look they just worship. And that is what God cares about. He doesn't care about the genre or style of music. Scripture tells us to make a joyful noise. Us worshipping God with all our heart is joy enough for God. In my opinion the whole worship style debate is just one more stupid thing the devil uses to divide us and sadly it works.

 

[HawgWyld]

I hope this meanders closely enough to the original topic to be not considered "off topic," but I've been thinking a lot about music in church lately.

Bear in mind I have no problem with music in church -- the Psalms already sited tend to support that position well enough. In fact, it's hard to imagine a church service without a full choir, at least a Piano and a host of "Amens" being tossed around by members of a congregation who feel truly touched by the music. Furthermore, I used to torment the unfortunate congregation in my old church by banging shaky chords out of my 12-string acoustic guitar. No, I see no problem with music in church.

What I do have a problem with, however, are some of the contemporary songs that are creeping in here and there (emphasis on some). A common formula appears to apply to those abominations. It's pretty simple:

1. Come up with a mind-numbingly obvious phrase such as, "That Christ fella is pretty good."

2. Repeat that phrase over and over and you've got a song.

3. To avoid getting too bored, throw in a variation or two (i.e., "That Christ fella is pretty good! I said that Christ fella is pretty good. That Christ fella? He's pretty good."

4. Cut off the "hymn" after a couple of minutes.

In some cases, it might be effective to "update" an old favorite (and render it ineffective) by tacking on a bit of half-baked contemporary stuff that is too inane to stand alone as a hymn by even today's standards. If someone told me the Devil himself is the one responsible for mangling "Amazing Grace" with that dreadfully irritating "My Chains are Gone" slop, I'd believe it.

The point here is that music has been an effective part of worship for as long as any of us have known and, indeed, as long as our parents and grandparents have known. Old hymns are fantastic and there have been some contemporary ones that are quite good. However, some of this contemporary stuff that comes across like it was written by a fifth-grader with severe ADHD both insults our intelligence and, I believe, gives rise to the notion that we ought to ban instruments from church entirely.

 

[guuila]

In my opinion the whole worship style debate is just one more stupid thing the devil uses to divide us and sadly it works.

Yep, but we need to stand against this legalism for the sake of our liberty in Christ.