Muhammad in the Bible, the Song of Songs

GeorgeTwo

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The word Muslims translate as "Muhammad" appears in other verses in the Bible. If it is translated Muhammad in the Song of Songs, then logically it should be translated as Muhammad in the other verses. Let's see what that plays out:

1 Kings 20:6: “Yet I will send my servants to thee tomorrow about this time, and they shall search thy house, and the houses of thy servants; and it shall be, [that] whatever is Muhammad in thy eyes, they shall take [it] in their hand, and carry [it] away.”

2 Chronicles 36:19: “And they burnt the house of God, and broke down the wall of Jerusalem, and burnt all its palaces with fire, and destroyed all its Muhammad vessels.”

Isaiah 64:11: “Our holy and our beautiful house, where our fathers praised thee, is burned with fire: and all our Muhammad things are laid waste.”

Lamentations 1:10: “The adversary hath spread out his hand upon all her Muhammad things: for she hath seen [that] the nations entered into her sanctuary, whom thou didst command [that] they should not enter into thy congregation.”

Lamentations 1:11: “All her people sigh, they seek bread; they have given their Muhammad things for food to relieve the soul: see, O LORD, and consider; for I am become vile.”

Lamentations 2:4: “He hath bent his bow like an enemy: he stood with his right hand as an adversary, and slew all [that were] Muhammad to the eye in the tabernacle of the daughter of Zion: he poured out his fury like fire.”

Ezekiel 24:16: “Son of man, behold, I take away from thee the Muhammad of thy eyes with a stroke: yet neither shalt thou mourn nor weep, neither shall thy tears run down.”

Ezekiel 24:21: “Speak to the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will profane my sanctuary, the excellence of your strength, the Muhammad of your eyes, and that which your soul pitieth; and your sons and your daughters whom ye have left shall fall by the sword.”

Ezekiel 24:25: “Also, thou son of man, [shall it] not [be] in the day when I take from them their strength, the joy of their glory, the Muhammad of their eyes, and that on which they set their minds, their sons and their daughters.”

Hosea 9:6: “For, lo, they are gone because of destruction: Egypt shall gather them up, Memphis shall bury them: the Muhammad [places] for their silver, nettles shall possess them: thorns [shall be] in their tabernacles.”

Hosea 9:16: “Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay [even] the Muhammad [fruit] of their womb.”

Joel 3:5: “Because ye have taken my silver and my gold, and have carried into your temples my Muhammad things.”

If I were a Muslim I would be ticked off at Muslim apologists who treat me as though I don't have a brain in my head to the extent that I would blindly believe what they say without considering the context of a verse and without doing some homework to see if the apologists are telling the truth.
 
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Truth light

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The word Muslims translate as "Muhammad" appears in other verses in the Bible. If it is translated Muhammad in the Song of Songs, then logically it should be translated as Muhammad in the other verses.

......
If I were a Muslim I would be ticked off at Muslim apologists who treat me as though I don't have a brain in my head to the extent that I would blindly believe what they say without considering the context of a verse and without doing some homework to see if the apologists are telling the truth.
The name "Muhammad" is mentioned once in the OT.
מַחֲמַדִּים - Google Search
 
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habibii zahra

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SusanD.

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Hi.
As sensibly stated already by George Two:-
"The word Muslims translate as "Muhammad" appears in other verses in the Bible. If it is translated Muhammad in the Song of Songs, then logically it should be translated as Muhammad in the other verses. Let's see what that plays out:

1 Kings 20:6: “Yet I will send my servants to thee tomorrow about this time, and they shall search thy house, and the houses of thy servants; and it shall be, [that] whatever is Muhammad in thy eyes, they shall take [it] in their hand, and carry [it] away.”

2 Chronicles 36:19: “And they burnt the house of God, and broke down the wall of Jerusalem, and burnt all its palaces with fire, and destroyed all its Muhammad vessels.”

Isaiah 64:11: “Our holy and our beautiful house, where our fathers praised thee, is burned with fire: and all our Muhammad things are laid waste.”

Lamentations 1:10: “The adversary hath spread out his hand upon all her Muhammad things: for she hath seen [that] the nations entered into her sanctuary, whom thou didst command [that] they should not enter into thy congregation.”

Lamentations 1:11: “All her people sigh, they seek bread; they have given their Muhammad things for food to relieve the soul: see, O LORD, and consider; for I am become vile.”

Lamentations 2:4: “He hath bent his bow like an enemy: he stood with his right hand as an adversary, and slew all [that were] Muhammad to the eye in the tabernacle of the daughter of Zion: he poured out his fury like fire.”

Ezekiel 24:16: “Son of man, behold, I take away from thee the Muhammad of thy eyes with a stroke: yet neither shalt thou mourn nor weep, neither shall thy tears run down.”

Ezekiel 24:21: “Speak to the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will profane my sanctuary, the excellence of your strength, the Muhammad of your eyes, and that which your soul pitieth; and your sons and your daughters whom ye have left shall fall by the sword.”

Ezekiel 24:25: “Also, thou son of man, [shall it] not [be] in the day when I take from them their strength, the joy of their glory, the Muhammad of their eyes, and that on which they set their minds, their sons and their daughters.”

Hosea 9:6: “For, lo, they are gone because of destruction: Egypt shall gather them up, Memphis shall bury them: the Muhammad [places] for their silver, nettles shall possess them: thorns [shall be] in their tabernacles.”

Hosea 9:16: “Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay [even] the Muhammad [fruit] of their womb.”

Joel 3:5: “Because ye have taken my silver and my gold, and have carried into your temples my Muhammad things.”
"If I were a Muslim I would be ticked off at Muslim apologists who treat me as though I don't have a brain in my head to the extent that I would blindly believe what they say without considering the context of a verse and without doing some homework to see if the apologists are telling the truth"

Habibii, there is an unfortunate hypocrisy in Islam. There is the claim that the Holy Bible has been corrupted, but then Muslims are willing to believe the Bible if it can be manipulated to fit into Islamic doctrines....
God created us all for His purpose and glory. We have all sinned against God and gone our own ways. God in His foreknowledge provided the means for us to be reconciled to Him. The Lord Jesus, the Messiah, said "I have come to seek and to save the lost" Luke's gospel 19:10.
If you repent of your sins and accept God's way of salvation, you will receive eternal life and peace in the holy Messiah, Yeshua (Jesus).
 
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Arthra

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There is the claim that the Holy Bible has been corrupted, but then Muslims are willing to believe the Bible if it can be manipulated to fit into Islamic doctrines....

Would you agree that certain Christians have manipulated the scriptures for their own purposes? I would believe so. It may also be the Qur'anic verses are referring to misinterpretation as well..

Do ye crave that they should believe you when already a sect of them have heard the word of God and then perverted it after they had understood it, though they knew?
And when they meet those who believe they say, 'We believe,' but when one goes aside with another they say, 'Will ye talk to them of what God has opened up to you, that they may argue with you upon it before your Lord? Do ye not therefore understand?' Do they not then know that God knoweth what they keep secret and what they make known abroad?
And some of them there are, illiterate folk, that know not the Book, but only idle tales; for they do but fancy. But woe to those who write out the Book with their hands and say 'this is from' God; to buy therewith a little price! and woe to them for what their hands have written, and woe to them for what they gain!


(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 2 - The Heifer)

Another translation by Rodwell reads:

2:70 Desire ye then that for your sakes the Jews should believe? Yet a part
of them heard the word of God, and then, after they had understood it;
perverted, and knew that they did so.

And when they fall in with the faithful, they say, "We believe;" but
when they are apart one with another, they say, "Will ye acquaint them with
what God hath revealed to you, that they may dispute with you about it in the
presence of your Lord?" Understand ye their aim?

Know they not that God knoweth what they hide, as well as what they
bring to light?

But there are illiterates among them who are unacquainted with the Book,
but with lies only, and have but vague fancies. Woe to those who with their
own hands transcribe the Book corruptly, and then say, "This is from God," that
they may sell it for some mean price! Woe then to them for that which their
hands have written! and, Woe to them for the gains which they have made!
 
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GeorgeTwo

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I have already refuted this before.

Have you ever thought that some Qur'anic verses have been misinterpreted?

Like the verses of the unlettered prophet?

"Those who follow the messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper."

Say: "O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth: there is no god but He: it is He That giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, who believeth in Allah and His words: follow him that (so) ye may be guided."

It is He Who has sent amongst the unlettered a messenger from among themselves, to rehearse to them His Signs, to sanctify them, and to instruct them in Scripture and Wisdom,- although they had been, before, in manifest error;-

Maybe the unlettered prophet is not Muhammad but someone else?

Could the unlettered prophet be Jesus keeping in mind that "unlettered" does not mean illiterate?
 
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habibii zahra

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Have you ever thought that some Qur'anic verses have been misinterpreted?

Like the verses of the unlettered prophet?

"Those who follow the messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper."

Say: "O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth: there is no god but He: it is He That giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, who believeth in Allah and His words: follow him that (so) ye may be guided."

It is He Who has sent amongst the unlettered a messenger from among themselves, to rehearse to them His Signs, to sanctify them, and to instruct them in Scripture and Wisdom,- although they had been, before, in manifest error;-

Maybe the unlettered prophet is not Muhammad but someone else?

Could the unlettered prophet be Jesus keeping in mind that "unlettered" does not mean illiterate?
no it is mohammad

illiterate prophet in the bible:
An "Illiterate Prophet" in Isaiah 29:11-13? - Evidence for God's Unchanging Word
 
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GeorgeTwo

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habibii zahra

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First, Muhammad was not illiterate in the sense he could not read or write.

Second, Isaiah 29:11-13 is not about Muhammad. Hasn't this been explained to you?
it is mentioned in the Quran that he was illiterate

Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write (i.e.Muhammad
saws.gif
) whom they find written with them in the Taurat (Torah) (Deut, xviii, 15) and the Injeel (Gospel) (John xiv, 16) , - he commands them for Al-Ma'ruf (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam has ordained); and forbids them from Al-Munkar (i.e. disbelief, polytheism of all kinds, and all that Islam has forbidden); he allows them as lawful At-Taiyibat [(i.e. all good and lawful) as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons, foods, etc.], and prohibits them as unlawful Al-Khaba'ith (i.e. all evil and unlawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons, foods, etc.), he releases them from their heavy burdens (of Allah's Covenant), and from the fetters (bindings) that were upon them. So those who believe in him (Muhammad
saws.gif
), honour him, help him, and follow the light (the Qur'an) which has been sent down with him, it is they who will be successful .

158. Say (O Muhammad
saws.gif
): "O mankind! Verily, I am sent to you all as the Messenger of Allah - to Whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth. La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He); It is He Who gives life and causes death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad
saws.gif
), the Prophet who can neither read nor write (i.e. Muhammad
saws.gif
) who believes in Allah and His Words [(this Qur'an), the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel) and also Allah's Word: "Be!" - and he was, i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus) son of Maryam (Mary),], and follow him so that you may be guided. "
 
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GeorgeTwo

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it is mentioned in the Quran that he was illiterate

Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write (i.e.Muhammad
saws.gif
) whom they find written with them in the Taurat (Torah) (Deut, xviii, 15) and the Injeel (Gospel) (John xiv, 16) , - he commands them for Al-Ma'ruf (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam has ordained); and forbids them from Al-Munkar (i.e. disbelief, polytheism of all kinds, and all that Islam has forbidden); he allows them as lawful At-Taiyibat [(i.e. all good and lawful) as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons, foods, etc.], and prohibits them as unlawful Al-Khaba'ith (i.e. all evil and unlawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons, foods, etc.), he releases them from their heavy burdens (of Allah's Covenant), and from the fetters (bindings) that were upon them. So those who believe in him (Muhammad
saws.gif
), honour him, help him, and follow the light (the Qur'an) which has been sent down with him, it is they who will be successful .

158. Say (O Muhammad
saws.gif
): "O mankind! Verily, I am sent to you all as the Messenger of Allah - to Whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth. La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He); It is He Who gives life and causes death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad
saws.gif
), the Prophet who can neither read nor write (i.e. Muhammad
saws.gif
) who believes in Allah and His Words [(this Qur'an), the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel) and also Allah's Word: "Be!" - and he was, i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus) son of Maryam (Mary),], and follow him so that you may be guided. "

"Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write" is not in the Arabic text:

7:157:
Literal
(Word by Word) Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find him written with them in the Taurat and the Injeel. He commands them to the right and forbids them from the wrong, and he makes lawful for them the pure things and makes unlawful for them the impure things and he relieves from them their burden and the fetters which were upon them. So those who believe in him and honor him, and help him and follow the light which has been sent down with him. Those (are) [they] the successful ones."

Notice Muhammad's name is not mentioned.

"unlettered" means he was not formally taught -- did not go to school

those who follow the Messenger the uninstructed Prophet Muhammad s whom they will find inscribed in their Torah and Gospel in name and description enjoining them to decency and forbidding them indecency making lawful for them the good things which were forbidden to them by their Law and making unlawful for them the vile things such as carrion and the like and relieving them of their burden their onus and the shackles the hardships that they used to bear such as the requirement to kill oneself as a repentance and the severing of that part that had come into contact with any impurity. Then those who believe in him from among them and honour revere him and help him and follow the light that has been revealed with him namely the Qur’ān they are the ones who will prosper’.

Notice Muhammad's name is inserted.

Altafsir.com - The Tafsirs - التفاسير

Being unlettered also applies to Jesus.
 
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habibii zahra

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"Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write" is not in the Arabic text:

7:157:
Literal
(Word by Word) Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find him written with them in the Taurat and the Injeel. He commands them to the right and forbids them from the wrong, and he makes lawful for them the pure things and makes unlawful for them the impure things and he relieves from them their burden and the fetters which were upon them. So those who believe in him and honor him, and help him and follow the light which has been sent down with him. Those (are) [they] the successful ones."

Notice Muhammad's name is not mentioned.

"unlettered" means he was not formally taught -- did not go to school..read the Quranic verse again and read the bible verses again you will find the true

those who follow the Messenger the uninstructed Prophet Muhammad s whom they will find inscribed in their Torah and Gospel in name and description enjoining them to decency and forbidding them indecency making lawful for them the good things which were forbidden to them by their Law and making unlawful for them the vile things such as carrion and the like and relieving them of their burden their onus and the shackles the hardships that they used to bear such as the requirement to kill oneself as a repentance and the severing of that part that had come into contact with any impurity. Then those who believe in him from among them and honour revere him and help him and follow the light that has been revealed with him namely the Qur’ān they are the ones who will prosper’.

Notice Muhammad's name is inserted.

Altafsir.com - The Tafsirs - التفاسير

Being unlettered also applies to Jesus.
the Quran mentions the expression "who doesn't read or write" this is the fact..read the Quranic verses again and the bible verses again you will see the truth
 
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