MSN article claims America was better off under Trump than Biden

[Aldebaran]

Immigrants across the southern boarder aren't the cause of the Covid infection spikes in USA.
The density of infected people is higher in USA than it is outside of USA.
Spikes are occuring in USA due to Delta and due to many Trump/Republican supporters who are refusing to get vaccinated. Biden and his admin are emploring people to get vaccinated, even if that means saving lives of people who will vote Republican.

More people are being vaccinated due to all the incentives being offered. Yet the rate of deaths in this country are now on par with the time before there was ANY vaccine.
Figure that one out.

 

[Aldebaran]

You don't think thousands and thousands of unvaccinated immigrants will have any effect? How is that only the unvaccinated Americans matter?

Because the unvaccinated Americans are likely to have been Trump voters, and you know how we're supposed to feel about them. But unvaccinated immigrants are more likely to vote for biden, especially since requiring an ID (or even show up in person) to vote would be "racist".

 

[stevil]

More people are being vaccinated due to all the incentives being offered. Yet the rate of deaths in this country are now on par with the time before there was ANY vaccine.
Figure that one out.

The Delta variant is much more infections. The Delta variant wasn't circulating the globe when Trump was president.
The Delta variant has an R0 of 6 as opposed to the original Covid having R0 of 3

This looks as follows
Delta 1 person Original 1 person
Delta 6 persons Original 3 persons
Delta 36 persons Original 9 persons
Delta 216 persons Original 27 persons
Delta 1,296 persons Original 81 persons
Delta 7,776 persons Original 243 persons
Delta 46,656 persons Original 729 persons

People in USA that are getting sick, hospitalised and dying these days are those that are mostly unvaccinated even though most USA folk have been vaccinated. They are generally Republicans and Trump supporters.

 

[stevil]

You don't think thousands and thousands of unvaccinated immigrants will have any effect? How is that only the unvaccinated Americans matter?

Immigrants are a problem in countries like NZ where we have very little infection inside our borders, but for USA you already have masses of disease in your country. Immigrants are more likely to catch the disease from Americans than the other way around.

 

[Aldebaran]

The Delta variant is much more infections. The Delta variant wasn't circulating the globe when Trump was president.
The Delta variant has an R0 of 6 as opposed to the original Covid having R0 of 3

This looks as follows
Delta 1 person Original 1 person
Delta 6 persons Original 3 persons
Delta 36 persons Original 9 persons
Delta 216 persons Original 27 persons
Delta 1,296 persons Original 81 persons
Delta 7,776 persons Original 243 persons
Delta 46,656 persons Original 729 persons

People in USA that are getting sick, hospitalised and dying these days are those that are mostly unvaccinated even though most USA folk have been vaccinated. They are generally Republicans and Trump supporters.

"Republicans and Trump supporters". It always comes back to politicizing the virus, doesn't it?

Now, back to the point: The vaccine has proven ineffective as shown by the fact that the rate of infections is just as great with a vaccine (which most people have) as without it. Who a person voted for in an election has nothing to do with it.

 

[stevil]

"Republicans and Trump supporters". It always comes back to politicizing the virus, doesn't it?

I am not politicising the virus at all.
I am just acknowledging that by and large those that are getting sick and dying now in USA are those that are not taking the vaccine and those people are by and large Trump/Republican supporters.
That is a significant group which needs to be targeted with regards to promoting vaccines to them.

A poster was blaming Biden for the spread of the disease. But the people who are spreading it and getting sick are by and large Trump supporters. I assume those people aren't listening to Biden when he is encouraging them to get vaccinated. I think Biden should continue encouraging them, and I also think Trump, respected Republican politicians, and respected right wing media personalities should also be encouraging these people to get vaccinated.

Now, back to the point: The vaccine has proven ineffective as shown by the fact that the rate of infections is just as great with a vaccine (which most people have) as without it. Who a person voted for in an election has nothing to do with it.

I don't know where you are getting your information from, but it is grossly incorrect. The vaccines are very effective. The evidence out about this is conclusive.

 

[Aldebaran]

I am not politicising the virus at all.
I am just acknowledging that by and large those that are getting sick and dying now in USA are those that are not taking the vaccine and those people are by and large Trump/Republican supporters.
That is a significant group which needs to be targeted with regards to promoting vaccines to them.

A poster was blaming Biden for the spread of the disease. But the people who are spreading it and getting sick are by and large Trump supporters. I assume those people aren't listening to Biden when he is encouraging them to get vaccinated. I think Biden should continue encouraging them, and I also think Trump, respected Republican politicians, and respected right wing media personalities should also be encouraging these people to get vaccinated.



I don't know where you are getting your information from, but it is grossly incorrect. The vaccines are very effective. The evidence out about this is conclusive.

See for yourself: COVID Live Update: 231,349,761 Cases and 4,741,566 Deaths from the Coronavirus - Worldometer

 

[stevil]

See for yourself: COVID Live Update: 231,349,761 Cases and 4,741,566 Deaths from the Coronavirus - Worldometer

I don't understand what I am supposed to take from that?

That doesn't at all address the efficacy of vaccines. (which is what we were disputing)

 

[Aldebaran]

I don't understand what I am supposed to take from that?

That doesn't at all address the efficacy of vaccines. (which is what we were disputing)

What I had said was that there are about as many people dying of Covid now as there were before there was a vaccine, even though more than half the population has the vaccine. That doesn't show it to be very effective.

 

[stevil]

What I had said was that there are about as many people dying of Covid now as there were before there was a vaccine, even though more than half the population has the vaccine. That doesn't show it to be very effective.

It has nothing to do with the effectiveness of the vaccine.

1. The Delta variant is more spreadable so even with a percentage of the population having been vaccinated, it could be as prevalent or more prevalent then the pre-Delta days.
2. There are significant percentages of people around the world and in USA that have not yet been vaccinated.

To assess the efficacy of the vaccine you need to look at things such as what percent of the population is vaccinated and then compare that to what you are seeing in the hospitals.
If 70% of the population is vaccinated and yet 99.5% of people in the hospitals that are sick with Covid are the unvaccinated, then that would suggest that the vaccines are protecting the vaccinated people as they are significantly under represented in the hospitals.

 

[Silverback]

Undermining and ignoring election results as voted by the people will finish the USA.

Biden won the election, but you are correct...it could. I don't for see the Capital riot repeating itself anytime soon though. President Trump left them out to dry, which will actually calm things down. If he had pardoned any of them in the last days of his Presidency, we would already be facing massive civil unrest.

 

[stevil]

Biden won the election, but you are correct...it could. I don't for see the Capital riot repeating itself anytime soon though. President Trump left them out to dry, which will actually calm things down. If he had pardoned any of them in the last days of his Presidency, we would already be facing massive civil unrest.

The important bit was that Pence didn't play ball and that some few Republicans ultimately didn't play ball. Next time a corrupt President might get people more loyal to him than to democracy. There were many people like that, just not enough for him to pull it off this time.

 

[stevil]

Biden won the election, but you are correct...it could. I don't for see the Capital riot repeating itself anytime soon though. President Trump left them out to dry

Trump is only interested in protecting and supporting his rich and powerful elite buddies as long as they are loyal to him and have potential to keep doing favours for him.

Trump does not care about individuals who are not elites and have no ability to do personal flavors for him.

 

[Silverback]

The important bit was that Pence didn't play ball and that some few Republicans ultimately didn't play ball. Next time a corrupt President might get people more loyal to him than to democracy. There were many people like that, just not enough for him to pull it off this time.

There are, as in every society, people who talk tough about this type of thing, but in reality few are up for a moment like that...at least for now.

The plot to kidnap, and put Michigan's Governor in front of a peoples court was much more concerning to me than what happened in DC. I think their plan was quite far along, and if that would have happened, we would be under martial law.

 

[rjs330]

The important bit was that Pence didn't play ball and that some few Republicans ultimately didn't play ball. Next time a corrupt President might get people more loyal to him than to democracy. There were many people like that, just not enough for him to pull it off this time.

I should say not. There were how many involved in the actual riot? How many votes did Trump get? Let's see about 4-5 hundred vs 75 million?

 

[TLK Valentine]

I should say not. There were how many involved in the actual riot? How many votes did Trump get? Let's see about 4-5 hundred vs 75 million?

Not all of them could afford to travel to DC on 1/6.

 

[stevil]

I should say not. There were how many involved in the actual riot? How many votes did Trump get? Let's see about 4-5 hundred vs 75 million?

Wasn't talking about the riot. Just the efforts of congress, the AG the VP and some electorial officials

 

[Oompa Loompa]

I'd really like to know where out lives are actually better due to Biden and the democrats.

Let's see, COVID is still a problem everywhere.
My money is worth less all the time.
Healthcare is still an issue.
The big cities still have tons of violence problems.
The world no longer trusts us due to what Biden did in Afghanistan.
Thousands and thousands of illegals are pouring into the country.
Employers are still short workers.
My kids are being told they are racist cause they are white.

But at least we are free from Trump's mean tweets. So it is all worth it. So I keep hearing from Democrats.

 

[Pommer]

But at least we are free from Trump's mean tweets. So it is all worth it. So I keep hearing from Democrats.

Do you think that Twitter would have allowed President Trump to keep his account had he won?

 

[GoldenBoy89]

What I had said was that there are about as many people dying of Covid now as there were before there was a vaccine, even though more than half the population has the vaccine. That doesn't show it to be very effective.

Weird because it’s mostly the half that refuses to get vaccinated that is getting sick, hospitalized and dying from the disease. You also see higher case rates in places where there are lower vaccination rates and less mask use and the exact opposite in places where mitigation efforts (masks, vaccines and distancing) are higher.