• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.

Mr. Biden, we already have that.

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by OldWiseGuy, Dec 2, 2020.

  1. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

    +9,308
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    US-Others
    From Joe Biden's official campaign website.

    "I’ve always believed we can define America in one word: Possibilities.

    That in America everyone should be given the opportunity to go as far as their dreams and God-given ability will take them."


    We already have this. No need to reinvent the wheel.
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. 98cwitr

    98cwitr Lord forgive me Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

    +2,505
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Constitution
    opportunity speaks of equality, outcomes speak of equity. You cannot have equity without systemic inequality. Watch the language carefully. Those in power use equity now.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  3. Speedwell

    Speedwell Well-Known Member

    +16,357
    United States
    Other Religion
    Married
    No, it's just time to put it back on the car after four years.
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • List
  4. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

    +9,308
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    US-Others
    Generally speaking the economy has a mind of it's own regardless of who is in office.
     
  5. ReesePiece23

    ReesePiece23 The Peanut Buttery Member.

    +4,319
    Christian
    He's just saying what any politician would say - even Donald spun that one when he got in.

    I don't care about what people WANT to do, I just care about what they DID. After all, it's not how you start...
     
  6. The IbanezerScrooge

    The IbanezerScrooge I can't believe what I'm hearing...

    911
    +1,346
    United States
    Atheist
    Private
    US-Democrat
    No, we really don't. To believe that an African-American or Latino kid from the inner-city who was raised by a single-mother who has a drug addiction and can't keep a job has the same opportunity as a white kid from Nebraska who is raised in a loving 2-parent home with a household income above $100,000 is pure delusion.

    There's a great video of a camp counselor and a group of diverse kids that talks about this. He starts the kids out all lined up evenly and tells them they are going to race. Before they begin, though, he asks them questions such as "whoever has parents that are still together take a step forward." After asking about 10 questions like this there are some kids who are literally steps from the finish line and there are quite a few who are still standing on the starting line. Curiously the majority of the kids with the head start are white and the majority of the kids back at the starting line are not. All the kids are in the same race, but it is just delusional to say that all of them have the same opportunity to win.
     
  7. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

    +9,308
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    US-Others
    I have prospered under every president since Reagan. I will prosper under Biden as well. Not because of their policies but because of my own efforts (and good fortune of course).
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
  8. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

    +9,308
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    US-Others
    It seems to me that they did have the same opportunity to run the race until the camp counselor imposed artificial handicaps on them. Perhaps that counselor should witness some marathons where the participants focus is to finish the race, not necessarily to win it. The takeaway from the camp example is, "Why even run if you can't win." Only one can win, but all should finish.

    As has been said before equality of opportunity doesn't guarantee equality of outcome.

    I come from a background that didn't lend itself to success, but I've done quite well. But for my immaturity early on I could have done even better. The problem is that many kids are given only limited choices of the routes to success, choices than continue to enrich the few, at their expense.

    The rat in the woodpile is the cultivation by the elitists for the disdain of physical work, thus robbing many of the best opportunities for success.

    If you are poor and undereducated that is the hand you've been dealt and you have to deal with it. You can still succeed (finish the race) but it will likely take longer and more effort will be required.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2020
  9. ReesePiece23

    ReesePiece23 The Peanut Buttery Member.

    +4,319
    Christian
    Good man.

    I wish more folk had this attitude. (It is THE attitude.)
     
  10. The IbanezerScrooge

    The IbanezerScrooge I can't believe what I'm hearing...

    911
    +1,346
    United States
    Atheist
    Private
    US-Democrat
    *sigh* And you already missed the point. Intentionally, I'll bet.

    People's personal definitions of winning are certainly different. Unfortunately, people tend to impose their own definitions on others and treat them like losers if they don't fit their definition.

    Ah, see. You do recognize the inequality in opportunity that exists in this country. So, your denial of it is intentional?

    Who are those elitists? What was their background? Do you think they had the same opportunities that you or I had presuming neither of us are "Elitists"?

    Certainly, I agree that individuals have to work with the hand they are dealt, what choice do they have? But I also think the system should work to level that playing field as much as possible so that people can have an equal opportunity at the same chance of success. That means programs and assistance to families that struggle like the scenario I stated above to give the child that grows up in that situation the same chance to be able to take advantage of opportunities as the child in Nebraska. It means educating people about diversity and their cultural biases so they are less likely to treat people different from themselves with disdain or like "losers" when they fail to meet their definition of success.

    For, example, Juan from the inner-city and Billy from Nebraska both might appear to have the same opportunity to attend a state college. Except Juan's parents can't afford the tuition and Billy's dad makes over $100,000 a year and has saved up for his college tuition. This is the hand they were dealt, but are their opportunities really the same? Can the system do something to level out that opportunity so that both Juan and Billy can attend college whether their parents would be able to afford it or not? YES, it can! It could, for example, use tax dollars it collects from the entire population to subsidize college tuition for both Billy and Juan, thereby giving both a more equal opportunity to succeed in their college education. Note, that either Billy or Juan could certainly goof-off, make bad decisions and waste that opportunity, but they both had the same chance at least (not withstanding many, many other factors that impact opportunity in general, like not having the same risk of being killed in a drive-by shooting while sitting on your couch watching TV, for example).

    There's no good reason to allow suffering and hardship when it is perfectly within our power to alleviate it to some degree as a society and truly make people's opportunities equal.
     
  11. Arc F1

    Arc F1 Let the righteous man arise from slumber Supporter

    +2,122
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Then we should work on helping the poor and drop the race factor.
     
  12. SilverBear

    SilverBear Well-Known Member

    +1,282
    Non-Denom
    Widowed
    you say all this but refer to the camp counselor as imposing artificial handicaps indicating that you recognize the limits of opportunity you would just rather not admit they are there
     
  13. 98cwitr

    98cwitr Lord forgive me Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

    +2,505
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Constitution
    And do so voluntarily, and not under compulsion: 2 Cor 9:7

    If Juan's single mother cares more about his education and ensures that he prioritizes success over deliquency than Billy's father, I suspect Juan has a better chance at real success than Billy. Money doesn't have the same impact as the love of a caring and nurturing parent. Just ask Oprah.

    That said, life isn't fair. Humans trying to force it to be fair simply creates more unfairness. You don't punish those who do right and reward those who do wrong; but that's what "equity" is all about.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  14. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

    +2,851
    Christian
    Married
    Once discrimination based on race no longer exists we can drop the race factor. Until then...
     
  15. Arc F1

    Arc F1 Let the righteous man arise from slumber Supporter

    +2,122
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    So a poor white kid is less deserving than a poor black child? It's not going to be fixed with that attitude.
     
  16. Kentonio

    Kentonio Well-Known Member

    +9,691
    France
    Atheist
    Single
    The two are not separate. Did you know that while 21% of American kids are living in poverty, that figure rises to 46% of black kids and 40% of Latino kids?
     
  17. Kentonio

    Kentonio Well-Known Member

    +9,691
    France
    Atheist
    Single
    The two are not mutually exclusive. You can help solve racial inequality AND help alleviate all poverty.
     
  18. Arc F1

    Arc F1 Let the righteous man arise from slumber Supporter

    +2,122
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    So we help all poor kids. What's wrong with that?
     
  19. gaara4158

    gaara4158 (Power Level Hidden)

    +2,207
    United States
    Humanist
    Married
    US-Others
    It’s just another nebulous, feel-good mission statement lacking specifics or promises that’s so ubiquitous in politics. It’s meant to make you feel confident that his vision for the future of the country won’t interfere with your vision for your own future. It’s not something you’re meant to find informative in the way that you seem to be taking it.
     
  20. Sparagmos

    Sparagmos Well-Known Member

    +5,682
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Can you flesh this out more? Who?
     
Loading...