Movement to defund police...

[TLK Valentine]

Movement to defund police gains 'unprecedented' support across US

Activists say the way to stop police brutality and killings is to cut law enforcement budgets and reinvest in services. Some lawmakers now agree.

The movement to defund the police is gaining significant support across America, including from elected leaders, as protests over the killing of George Floyd sweep the nation.

For years, activists have pushed US cities and states to cut law enforcement budgets amid a dramatic rise in spending on police and prisons while funding for vital social services has shrunk or disappeared altogether.

Government officials have long dismissed the idea as a leftist fantasy, but the recent unrest and massive budget shortfalls from the Covid-19 crisis appear to have inspired more mainstream recognition of the central arguments behind defunding.

Hmmm... not sure is this is the solution, but it's interesting...


Thoughts?

 

[iluvatar5150]

Movement to defund police gains 'unprecedented' support across US

Hmmm... not sure is this is the solution, but it's interesting...

Thoughts?

I'm not sold on it, either. I agree that other services ought to be beefed up and in many cases utilized first - and if the cuts have to come from the police, then so be it, I suppose. But here in Baltimore our PD is way underfunded and it hasn't made things better. All it does is make residents frustrated that they can't get property crime addressed.

ETA: Salary cuts and more stressful working conditions also make it easier for surrounding suburbs to out-recruit us. It's tough enough here that we've made at least a couple attempts to recruit folks from Puerto Rico.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Consider we had to wait weeks to have adequate PPE ready for doctors and nurses, some having to make their own out of trash bags and plastic bottles while working in the midst of a pandemic but the police have enough riot gear, vehicles, weapons and toys to outfit an entire army, ready to go at a moment’s notice of people assembling to protest their actions.

 

[camille70]

Los Angeles Mayor Garcetti Cutting $100-$150 Million From LAPD Budget – Deadline

 

[Landon Caeli]

Los Angeles Mayor Garcetti Cutting $100-$150 Million From LAPD Budget – Deadline

It was an easy choice, being money is running out anyway from Covid-19.

...Two birds with one stone.

 

[Silmarien]

Consider we had to wait weeks to have adequate PPE ready for doctors and nurses, some having to make their own out of trash bags and plastic bottles while working in the midst of a pandemic but the police have enough riot gear, vehicles, weapons and toys to outfit an entire army, ready to go at a moment’s notice of people assembling to protest their actions.

Maybe better oversight on how police funding is being spent and a shift in priorities in how policing out to be handled is a better solution.

I'm not comfortable with police defunding or "Abolish the Police" movements, since I'm not really sure what people think the alternative is. Private militias? How would that not end up with the exact same issues, except less options for oversight?

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Any community that defunds the police will descend into anarchy and crime. Yet if the police are systematically racist as BLM claims, why not let black communities (or any for that matter) defund the Police?

 

[Sparagmos]

Movement to defund police gains 'unprecedented' support across US



Hmmm... not sure is this is the solution, but it's interesting...


Thoughts?

I have mixed feelings. I want a complete overhaul of policing and that will cost a lot of $$. I also want them to get a ton more education and to be paid more to be commensurate with the level of education and responsibility they have.

I’m hoping here in Portland we could be a test case for major police reform. My dream is the police on the streets don’t carry guns and get rid of all those pockets. And maybe they can stop exclusively hiring dudes that look like they do steroids. Their arms are all twice the size of the average Portlander’s arm.

 

[Landon Caeli]

I have mixed feelings. I want a complete overhaul of policing and that will cost a lot of $$. I also want them to get a ton more education and to be paid more to be commensurate with the level of education and responsibility they have.

I’m hoping here in Portland we could be a test case for major police reform. My dream is the police on the streets don’t carry guns and get rid of all those pockets. And maybe they can stop exclusively hiring dudes that look like they do steroids. Their arms are all twice the size of the average Portlander’s arm.

Ban ex-military to start. Our homeland isn't a war zone.

...Start hiring college grads instead, creating a whole new standard that includes psychology, and cultural education.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I’m hoping here in Portland we could be a test case for major police reform. My dream is the police on the streets don’t carry guns and get rid of all those pockets. And maybe they can stop exclusively hiring dudes that look like they do steroids. Their arms are all twice the size of the average Portlander’s arm.

To be fair, that's not a very high bar. I've seen Portlandia.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Ban ex-military to start. Our homeland isn't a war zone.

...Start hiring college grads instead, creating a whole new standard that includes psychology, and cultural education.

I don't know... Talking to ex-military folks, I get the impression that the ROE overseas are a lot tighter than they are over here and that local cops are seen as something of a joke in regards to their ability to handle a rowdy mob.

 

[Sparagmos]

To be fair, that's not a very high bar. I've seen Portlandia.

Yay you got the subtext

 

[iluvatar5150]

Yay you got the subtext

Also, you and @SummerMadness having the same avatar and usernames that start with 'S', I keep getting you mixed up.

 

[Sparagmos]

Ban ex-military to start. Our homeland isn't a war zone.

...Start hiring college grads instead, creating a whole new standard that includes psychology, and cultural education.

Yes! This is my quickly brainstormed list of what I’d like to see, that I posted on another thread yesterday:

1) 4 years education in policing, including criminal justice, constitutional law, history of civil rights, sociology, conflict resolution, negotiation, deescalation, psychology, domestic violence, martial arts, tactics, etc. 2 years in they can begin working as interns but only under direct supervision. Cops should be people who are trained to counsel and work with People, particularly the mentally ill and criminal types. They should know more than you and me about human psychology and be masters of disarming and deescalation.

2) Personality testing and evaluation to test performance under stress and quickness to anger. This is also evaluated during the internship. No one with “anger issues” or the inability to remain calm under duress should make the cut. The most important characteristic of a cop should be the ability to remain calm and think clearly under stress.

3)Pay cops a lot more. They have a huge responsibility. Then we can also expect more of them.

4)Cops should be bonded or insured somehow so that the public doesn’t pay when they get sued for misconduct.

5)Cops don’t carry firearms on the street. Just non-lethal weapons. And they don’t dress like the military with all of those ridiculous pockets. They are there to deescalate problems, not look scary.

6)Separate agency with a board appointed by city council, to oversee police accountability that investigates all complaints of abuse. Investigations totally transparent. This board has meetings open to the public.

7) body cams on at all times, gross misconduct to turn off your body cam when working. Perhaps they are just uploaded automatically.

8) iron tight whistleblower protection. Retaliation against a cop for reporting another cop should mean jail time.

I know there have been instances where the whole police force was let go and replaced. In some places, this could be a way to start fresh and send the message of zero tolerance for abuse.

 

[Sparagmos]

Also, you and @SummerMadness having the same avatar and usernames that start with 'S', I keep getting you mixed up.

I’d be honored to be mixed up with @SummerMadness anyday!

 

[Mama-Bear]

Movement to defund police gains 'unprecedented' support across US



Hmmm... not sure is this is the solution, but it's interesting...


Thoughts?

Are the police standing in the way of lawlessness? If police break the law, what is the next step? I do not see a happy outcome, wild west comes to mind.

 

[Mama-Bear]

I have mixed feelings. I want a complete overhaul of policing and that will cost a lot of $$. I also want them to get a ton more education and to be paid more to be commensurate with the level of education and responsibility they have.

I’m hoping here in Portland we could be a test case for major police reform. My dream is the police on the streets don’t carry guns and get rid of all those pockets. And maybe they can stop exclusively hiring dudes that look like they do steroids. Their arms are all twice the size of the average Portlander’s arm.

You know the only thing that stops a bad man with a gun is a good man with a gun. How can you police America without a gun? Take the citizen's guns. That won't work we need our guns to protect ourselves.

 

[cow451]

Movement to defund police gains 'unprecedented' support across US
Hmmm... not sure is this is the solution, but it's interesting...
Thoughts?

I would support the demilitarizing of the police through funding. Frankly, I'd rather see any decrease in military-style equipment be moved to raises for front line cops and increasing training and adjusting said training toward becoming better public servants.

 

[Silmarien]

5)Cops don’t carry firearms on the street. Just non-lethal weapons. And they don’t dress like the military with all of those ridiculous pockets. They are there to deescalate problems, not look scary.

This one I was wondering about a bit earlier, since I know it's supposed to work well in Britain, but the difference between Britain and the United States is that firearms are harder to come by there in general, so the police aren't going to get into a firefight with anyone. Would police in this country even be able to tackle something like gang violence without being armed?

 

[cow451]

Yes! This is my quickly brainstormed list of what I’d like to see, that I posted on another thread yesterday:

1) 4 years education in policing, including criminal justice, constitutional law, history of civil rights, sociology, conflict resolution, negotiation, deescalation, psychology, domestic violence, martial arts, tactics, etc. 2 years in they can begin working as interns but only under direct supervision. Cops should be people who are trained to counsel and work with People, particularly the mentally ill and criminal types. They should know more than you and me about human psychology and be masters of disarming and deescalation.

2) Personality testing and evaluation to test performance under stress and quickness to anger. This is also evaluated during the internship. No one with “anger issues” or the inability to remain calm under duress should make the cut. The most important characteristic of a cop should be the ability to remain calm and think clearly under stress.

3)Pay cops a lot more. They have a huge responsibility. Then we can also expect more of them.

4)Cops should be bonded or insured somehow so that the public doesn’t pay when they get sued for misconduct.

5)Cops don’t carry firearms on the street. Just non-lethal weapons. And they don’t dress like the military with all of those ridiculous pockets. They are there to deescalate problems, not look scary.

6)Separate agency with a board appointed by city council, to oversee police accountability that investigates all complaints of abuse. Investigations totally transparent. This board has meetings open to the public.

7) body cams on at all times, gross misconduct to turn off your body cam when working. Perhaps they are just uploaded automatically.

8) iron tight whistleblower protection. Retaliation against a cop for reporting another cop should mean jail time.

I know there have been instances where the whole police force was let go and replaced. In some places, this could be a way to start fresh and send the message of zero tolerance for abuse.

I hate to be a downer here, but I used to know a psychologist that did evaluations to prospective police academy cadets.... he said the results were often "scary".