{MOVED} Why I am not Roman Catholic

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Aussie Pete

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As requested, this is my reasoning for not converting to Catholicism.

I was not raised in a Christian family. I knew little about Roman Catholicism except for the vitriolic attacks my father would launch from time to time. After I was saved, I investigated Roman Catholicism. I found it wanting in the extreme. There are many issues that Protestants have with various Bible interpretations. I have learned to agree to disagree with a great deal of denominational teaching. I do not accept that the issues with Protestant beliefs are a reason to adopt Catholicism.

This OP is as brief as I can make it, but there is much more to say. Feel free to challenge any of my statements.

I am well aware that RC theologians have answers for everything, but I find their reasoning specious. I have nothing against Roman Catholics as individuals. My problem is the false teachings of the RC organisation. I’ll use the abbreviation “RC”. I refuse to call it “church” because it is an organisation, not the true Church.

Top of my list is the false teaching is that the Lord Jesus founded the RC organisation. Lord Jesus is the Head of the Church, His body, the fullness of Him who fills all things. (Eph. 1:23). The true Church is all those who are born again. No one is a Christian because they are born into a Christian family. Everyone must choose Christ for themselves. “You must be born again” (John 3:7)

Next is the papacy. RC traces this to the apostle Peter. Supposedly Lord Jesus built the church on him. Yet we know that the “Rock” that the Lord Jesus spoke about was His words, not an individual (Matthew 7:24). Peter was fallible. He allowed himself to be influenced by Judaizers and Paul had to set him straight. There is no conclusive evidence that Peter was the Bishop of Rome.

Another issue is the priesthood. The idea that an individual is the priest while the congregation consists of ignorant simpletons is contrary to God’s word. Every born again Christian is a priest to our God. This leads into to the next issue.

The RC teaches that the Bible alone is not sufficient. RC teachings are equal to the Bible. This is patently false. Since when have the traditions of men taken precedence over God’s word? Since the days of the Pharisees, that’s when. Lord Jesus did not commend them. He rebuked them! Every Christian has the right and the duty to study God’s word for themselves. The Bible is the standard by which every supposed truth must be judged. If it contradicts God’s word, then the “truth” is in fact a lie.

Praying to the saints who have gone before us? Why? I’ve been asking God in Jesus’ name for nearly 50 years. I’ve never heard, “I’m busy, talk to Paul will you? He’ll clue Me in later.” Lord Jesus told us to pray in His name. If we are really stuck, the Holy Spirit intercedes for us. (Romans 8:26).

“For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus……” (1 Timothy 2:5). Yet RC claims that Mary is a mediatrix. She is also awarded titles that are the domain of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Elevating Mary to a godlike figure is idolatry and blasphemous. Mary was not born sinless – her ancestry is traceable to Adam. Therefore she was in just as much need of grace as any other believer. She is not God and the RC obsession with Mary is not reflected in the New Testament.

Finally, consider the Kingdom of God. Lord Jesus declared that his Kingdom is not of this world. Yet the Vatican is a nation in its own right. It has an army, its own central bank, its own currency and postage stamps. It confers citizenship. It is a microcosm of the world system. It has nothing to do with the kingdom of God. Neither does Roman Catholicism.
 

Basil the Great

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The RC beliefs that Mary is Mediatrix of all graces and Co-Redemptrix are commonly held among Catholics. However, said titles have not yet been defined by the Church and are certainly not held to by all Catholics.
 
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TLSITD

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As requested, this is my reasoning for not converting to Catholicism.

I was not raised in a Christian family. I knew little about Roman Catholicism except for the vitriolic attacks my father would launch from time to time. After I was saved, I investigated Roman Catholicism. I found it wanting in the extreme. There are many issues that Protestants have with various Bible interpretations. I have learned to agree to disagree with a great deal of denominational teaching. I do not accept that the issues with Protestant beliefs are a reason to adopt Catholicism.

This OP is as brief as I can make it, but there is much more to say. Feel free to challenge any of my statements.

I am well aware that RC theologians have answers for everything, but I find their reasoning specious. I have nothing against Roman Catholics as individuals. My problem is the false teachings of the RC organisation. I’ll use the abbreviation “RC”. I refuse to call it “church” because it is an organisation, not the true Church.

Top of my list is the false teaching is that the Lord Jesus founded the RC organisation. Lord Jesus is the Head of the Church, His body, the fullness of Him who fills all things. (Eph. 1:23). The true Church is all those who are born again. No one is a Christian because they are born into a Christian family. Everyone must choose Christ for themselves. “You must be born again” (John 3:7)

Next is the papacy. RC traces this to the apostle Peter. Supposedly Lord Jesus built the church on him. Yet we know that the “Rock” that the Lord Jesus spoke about was His words, not an individual (Matthew 7:24). Peter was fallible. He allowed himself to be influenced by Judaizers and Paul had to set him straight. There is no conclusive evidence that Peter was the Bishop of Rome.

Another issue is the priesthood. The idea that an individual is the priest while the congregation consists of ignorant simpletons is contrary to God’s word. Every born again Christian is a priest to our God. This leads into to the next issue.

The RC teaches that the Bible alone is not sufficient. RC teachings are equal to the Bible. This is patently false. Since when have the traditions of men taken precedence over God’s word? Since the days of the Pharisees, that’s when. Lord Jesus did not commend them. He rebuked them! Every Christian has the right and the duty to study God’s word for themselves. The Bible is the standard by which every supposed truth must be judged. If it contradicts God’s word, then the “truth” is in fact a lie.

Praying to the saints who have gone before us? Why? I’ve been asking God in Jesus’ name for nearly 50 years. I’ve never heard, “I’m busy, talk to Paul will you? He’ll clue Me in later.” Lord Jesus told us to pray in His name. If we are really stuck, the Holy Spirit intercedes for us. (Romans 8:26).

“For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus……” (1 Timothy 2:5). Yet RC claims that Mary is a mediatrix. She is also awarded titles that are the domain of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Elevating Mary to a godlike figure is idolatry and blasphemous. Mary was not born sinless – her ancestry is traceable to Adam. Therefore she was in just as much need of grace as any other believer. She is not God and the RC obsession with Mary is not reflected in the New Testament.

Finally, consider the Kingdom of God. Lord Jesus declared that his Kingdom is not of this world. Yet the Vatican is a nation in its own right. It has an army, its own central bank, its own currency and postage stamps. It confers citizenship. It is a microcosm of the world system. It has nothing to do with the kingdom of God. Neither does Roman Catholicism.

With regard to the veneration of Mary, it has always been my understanding that Roman Catholicism basically "Christianized" paganism in order to convert pagans. They replaced the worship of a female deity with the veneration of Mary (the "Queen of heaven"), the worship of many gods of many things with the veneration of many saints for many causes, and pagan holidays with "Christian" ones. It was a religion of convenience.

Muhammad did a similar thing with Islam.
 
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Amittai

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I think you have intuited much of it very well, despite apparently "rings being run" around you. Protestants and catholics alike took a nosedive towards unbelief in about 1150, then catholics again in the 1620s, then again after 1918 (the generation Newman strengthened got wiped out). Then more in 1960, 1969, 1981 and 2018.

Each has to use their own conscience as to how quick or slow to dissociate. Some sermon givers give good sermons. There is much Scripture in catholic churches, and in the Office, every day (the C of E also has a version of this - both RC & C of E ignore their own resource).

Is God allowing us a reminder of "spiritual communion"?

An organisation that is not in communion with its members in another continent is not in communion with you or me.

Sitting & listening (and joining in the Our Father) was supposed to be open to everybody.

Compulsory sacraments was a JP II fad.

My curiosity is piqued by the implying of a protestant "not converting to RC" being an issue around you?

Disclaimer: in my case, my family were considered RC by the RC in my then locality, but this was very different from what is inaccurately assumed to be commonplace since. The RC was better than now, before 1960, I've since learned. Good learning, on the topics not listed by Pete, was suppressed by the RC itself. There are myriad extremely unreliable interpretations of "catechesis" and what are touted as solutions aren't.
 
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thecolorsblend

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Praying to the saints who have gone before us? Why? I’ve been asking God in Jesus’ name for nearly 50 years. I’ve never heard, “I’m busy, talk to Paul will you? He’ll clue Me in later.” Lord Jesus told us to pray in His name. If we are really stuck, the Holy Spirit intercedes for us. (Romans 8:26).
The Communion of the Saints is very old doctrine.

Besides that, most Christians ask people they know to pray for them. Traditional Christians simply recognize that God is the god of the living. Mortality need not be a barrier to communion and seeking their prayerful intercession.

Yet RC claims that Mary is a mediatrix.
There's an entire world of info with that. But to boil it all down, the Church recognizes Our Lady's unique role in the process of salvation from the standpoint that she gave birth to the Savior. Off hand, I'm hard-pressed to think of very many times in scripture where someone was given a mission or task by God and instantly agreed. Usually, they needed persuading. Sometimes a lot of persuading.

Our Lady agreed without first trying to decline.

She is also awarded titles that are the domain of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Such as?

Elevating Mary to a godlike figure is idolatry
Catholics don't do that. Worship is reserved for God and nobody else.

Mary was not born sinless – her ancestry is traceable to Adam.
Our Lord's ancestry can also be traced back to Adam, yes? But most Christians agree that He was free from sin as well.

Therefore she was in just as much need of grace as any other believer.
This is a point that gets misunderstood a lot. Catholics believe that Our Lady was born free from sin, yes.

However, she was born free from sin as a special grace from God. Her Son is her Savior just as much as He is anybody else's Savior. This may be oversimplifying things a bit but really the only distinction with her is that grace of her Son was applied far in advance of His birth. He remains her Savior.

She is not God
The Church wholeheartedly agrees.

and the RC obsession with Mary is not reflected in the New Testament.
That's debatable. But in any case, Catholics do not abide by "sola scriptura". Thus, even if what you say there was accurate (and we don't believe that it is), that's not a barrier to a Marian devotion.

This tract may help you better understand what Catholics believe concerning Our Lady: Making Peace with the Mediatrix
 
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eleos1954

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With regard to the veneration of Mary, it has always been my understanding that Roman Catholicism basically "Christianized" paganism in order to convert pagans. They replaced the worship of a female deity with the veneration of Mary (the "Queen of heaven"), the worship of many gods of many things with the veneration of many saints for many causes, and pagan holidays with "Christian" ones. It was a religion of convenience.

Muhammad did a similar thing with Islam.

Not only to convert pagans ... but some of the christians of the day compromised their faith as well ... and ... we see that same thing going on today BTW

Ecclesiastes 1:9

Berean Study Bible
What has been will be again, and what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.
 
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Aussie Pete

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With regard to the veneration of Mary, it has always been my understanding that Roman Catholicism basically "Christianized" paganism in order to convert pagans. They replaced the worship of a female deity with the veneration of Mary (the "Queen of heaven"), the worship of many gods of many things with the veneration of many saints for many causes, and pagan holidays with "Christian" ones. It was a religion of convenience.

Muhammad did a similar thing with Islam.
You are right. Constantine was the worst thing to happen to Christianity. People started to pretend because Christianity became respectable. It was a good career move to become a Christian. There was no reality in it.
 
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Not David

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With regard to the veneration of Mary, it has always been my understanding that Roman Catholicism basically "Christianized" paganism in order to convert pagans. They replaced the worship of a female deity with the veneration of Mary (the "Queen of heaven"), the worship of many gods of many things with the veneration of many saints for many causes, and pagan holidays with "Christian" ones. It was a religion of convenience.

Muhammad did a similar thing with Islam.
Fake news
 
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Aussie Pete

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The Communion of the Saints is very old doctrine.

Besides that, most Christians ask people they know to pray for them. Traditional Christians simply recognize that God is the god of the living. Mortality need not be a barrier to communion and seeking their prayerful intercession.

There's an entire world of info with that. But to boil it all down, the Church recognizes Our Lady's unique role in the process of salvation from the standpoint that she gave birth to the Savior. Off hand, I'm hard-pressed to think of very many times in scripture where someone was given a mission or task by God and instantly agreed. Usually, they needed persuading. Sometimes a lot of persuading.

Our Lady agreed without first trying to decline.

Such as?

Catholics don't do that. Worship is reserved for God and nobody else.

Our Lord's ancestry can also be traced back to Adam, yes? But most Christians agree that He was free from sin as well.

This is a point that gets misunderstood a lot. Catholics believe that Our Lady was born free from sin, yes.

However, she was born free from sin as a special grace from God. Her Son is her Savior just as much as He is anybody else's Savior. This may be oversimplifying things a bit but really the only distinction with her is that grace of her Son was applied far in advance of His birth. He remains her Savior.

The Church wholeheartedly agrees.

That's debatable. But in any case, Catholics do not abide by "sola scriptura". Thus, even if what you say there was accurate (and we don't believe that it is), that's not a barrier to a Marian devotion.


This tract may help you better understand what Catholics believe concerning Our Lady: Making Peace with the Mediatrix

Mary free from sin? That is blasphemy and a direct contradiction of God's word. The reason Lord Jesus was sinless is because God is His father. Mary cannot claim that.

Our devotion is meant to be to Christ. Of course, if you reject the authority of God's word, then you can believe whatever you like.

No thanks, I have had enough of the obsession with Mary as it is.
 
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Aussie Pete

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Might I enquire as to by whom?
I don't remember off hand. I was responding to a post that had a former protestant converting to catholicism. As it was on the catholic forum, I was being careful with my words. Not careful enough. So it was suggested that I state my case on a non-catholic forum.
 
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Tanj

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I don't remember off hand. I was responding to a post that had a former protestant converting to catholicism. As it was on the catholic forum, I was being careful with my words. Not careful enough. So it was suggested that I state my case on a non-catholic forum.

OK. You might find that it still skirts the wrong side of "telling a Christian they're not a Christian" no-no, but who am I to judge.
 
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thecolorsblend

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Might I enquire as to by whom?
I don't remember off hand. I was responding to a post that had a former protestant converting to catholicism. As it was on the catholic forum, I was being careful with my words. Not careful enough. So it was suggested that I state my case on a non-catholic forum.
It was most likely me.

A lot of specific forums are meant to be safe harbors for a given faith group. Thus, someone who isn't a Baptist can't go into the Baptist section and teach against whatever it is that the Baptists believe in. Same thing with the Catholic section. So I suggested starting a thread (in General Theology, to be fair, altho this section isn't bad either) where Catholic teaching can be taught against by non-Catholics without violating any rules.

I guess the OP decided that wasn't such a bad idea. Because here we are.
 
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Tanj

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It was most likely me.

A lot of specific forums are meant to be safe harbors for a given faith group. Thus, someone who isn't a Baptist can't go into the Baptist section and teach against whatever it is that the Baptists believe in. Same thing with the Catholic section. So I suggested starting a thread (in General Theology, to be fair, altho this section isn't bad either) where Catholic teaching can be taught against by non-Catholics without violating any rules.

I guess the OP decided that wasn't such a bad idea. Because here we are.

sadly, there's no BLAME! BLAME! BLAME! rating. So I gave you a thumbs up, but in my head it's an accusing finger.
 
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Hans Blaster

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Protestants and catholics alike took a nosedive towards unbelief in about 1150,

You think you understand European history, then you find out there were protestants in the 12th century. I guess you learn stuff every day.
 
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Aussie Pete

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It was most likely me.

A lot of specific forums are meant to be safe harbors for a given faith group. Thus, someone who isn't a Baptist can't go into the Baptist section and teach against whatever it is that the Baptists believe in. Same thing with the Catholic section. So I suggested starting a thread (in General Theology, to be fair, altho this section isn't bad either) where Catholic teaching can be taught against by non-Catholics without violating any rules.

I guess the OP decided that wasn't such a bad idea. Because here we are.
Yes, I had a few responders and I did not remember who in particular. I have no intention of bashing individual Catholics. My beef is with the doctrines of Roman Catholicism. I rarely venture into any denominational debates as I believe they are mostly pointless.
 
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TLSITD

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You are right. Constantine was the worst thing to happen to Christianity. People started to pretend because Christianity became respectable. It was a good career move to become a Christian. There was no reality in it.
The sad thing is that if the true church hadn't apostatized to the degree that it had even by 96 A.D., when the apostle John wrote down the Revelation, Roman Catholicism would never have consumed Christianity the way that it did. It never returned completely to the original form we see illustrated in the epistles. The Reformation (however drastically) "reformed" Catholicism; it didn't restore the Biblical standard. Many practices introduced into Christianity by Roman Catholicism remain to this day.
 
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