[MOVED]The Rapture

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All of my life, I have been brought up to believe that the rapture will happen before the 7 years of trial and tribulations begin.

But on this very night, I was reading up on it. And several websites i've been to, people have said that the christians will have to endure the tribulations. They said this will come as a surprise and that some of the christians will deny their Father to save their life. They said the thought of the rapture happening first is to give christians ease of mind.

Is this true? I will never fear no evil. I will be ready to face the Antichrist if this is true. I was just wondering. I normally know truth when I hear it.. But this is confusing. If it is true, I want to spread the word to as many people as possible.:preach:
 
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Adoniram

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I came across this just the other day. It was included in the ProphesyUpdate news letter I subscribe to, but it's originally from the RaptureReady website. Seems appropriate here.

Thirty–Six Pre-Trib Rapture Texts - By Daymond Duck – Rapture Ready - Rapture resource for the end times

1) There are no passages in either the Old Testament or the New Testament that say the Church will go through the Tribulation Period.

2) The Tribulation Period is called the “Time of Jacob’s Trouble” [The time of unbelieving Israel’s Trouble], but it is never called the time of the Church’s Trouble (Jer. 30:7).

3) Gabriel told Daniel, “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people [Daniel’s people are the Jews] and upon thy holy city” [The Holy City is Jerusalem] (Dan. 9:24). There is no mention of the Church.

4) The Church had no part in the first sixty-nine weeks and it will have no part in the seventieth week [the Tribulation Period] (Dan. 9:24).

5) In the Book of Revelation, the Rapture occurs at Rev. 4:1 which is before the Tribulation Period described in Rev. 6:1-19:21. In the sequence of events, the Rapture is before the seal, trumpet and bowl judgments.

6) The Church is mentioned more than twenty times in the first three chapters of Revelation, but the Church is never mentioned in the description of the Tribulation Period between Rev. 4:1 and Rev. 19:1.

7) The Tribulation Period is called a Day of Wrath in the Bible (Zeph 1:15), but the Bible says, “God hath not appointed us [the Church] to wrath” (I Thess. 5:9).

8) The Tribulation Period is called a Day of Wrath in the Bible (Zeph. 1:15), but the Bible says, Jesus has “delivered us from the wrath to come” [delivered the Church from the Tribulation Period] (I Thess. 1:10).

9) The Tribulation Period is called the Day of the Lord in the Bible (Zeph. 1:14). The Bible says, “the day of the Lord [the Tribulation Period] so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they [the unbelievers] shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them [upon the unbelievers], as travail upon a woman with child; and they [the unbelievers] shall not escape” (I Thess. 5:2-3). It clearly teaches that the Tribulation Period will come upon unbelievers, but it does not include believers.

10) Concerning the Rapture, the Bible says, “Comfort one another with these words” (I Thess. 4:18). There’s no comfort in the teaching that the Church will go through part or all of the Tribulation Period.

11) Jesus told the Church at Philadelphia, “Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation [the Tribulation Period], which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth” (Rev. 3:10). God promised to keep the obedient Church members out of the Tribulation Period.

12) According to the Bible, the marriage of the Lamb will take place in heaven before Jesus comes back to fight the Battle of Armageddon at the end of the Tribulation Period (Rev. 19:7-21). This means the Church will go to heaven [be Raptured] for the marriage of the Lamb before the Second Coming.

13) The end of the age will be like the days of Noah (Matt. 24:37). Noah and his family were removed from the earth [got on the ark] before the flood. Some believe this means that the Church will be removed from the earth before the judgment of God [Raptured before the Tribulation Period] (Gen. 7:23).

14) The end of the age will be like the days of Lot (Luke 17:28). Lot and his family were removed from Sodom before the judgment of God [before the fire and brimstone fell] (Gen. 19:16). Some believe this means that the Church will be removed from the earth before the judgment of God [Raptured before the Tribulation Period].

15) Jesus was talking about the Tribulation Period when He said, “Pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass” (Luke 21:36). It seems unreasonable to believe Jesus would tell the Church to pray for something He is unwilling to grant.

16) The Bible says, “For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming” (II Thess. 2:7-8). The most common interpretation of this is that the Antichrist can’t be revealed until the Restrainer [who most commentators say is both the Holy Spirit and the Church] is removed. If the Restrainer is the Church only, this means the Church will be removed before the Antichrist is revealed [that’s the Pre-Trib. Rapture]. If the Restrainer is the Holy Spirit only so that the Holy Spirit is removed without the Church, this means believers will cease to be indwelt with the Holy Spirit. It also means the Church will be left behind to go through the worst time the earth has ever seen [the Tribulation Period] without the help of the Holy Spirit. This would contradict the teaching of Jesus when He said, “I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever” (John 14:16). And, “I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee” (Heb. 13:5).

17) Isaiah wrote that God said, “Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain” (Isa. 26:19-21). Notice, that the dead rise first [that’s the Rapture], next God’s people are summoned to enter into His chambers for a short while until the indignation [a name of the Tribulation Period is past]. God will raise the dead and summon His people because He intends to punish the inhabitants of the earth [send the Tribulation Period].

18) Malachi wrote that God said, “They shall be mine, saith the Lord of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not” (Malachi 3:17-18). Pre-Tribulation teachers believe God is saying He will come for His Church [the Rapture] and then He will return with His Church [the Second Coming] to judge between the righteous and wicked.

19) In the Rapture, Jesus comes for His Church (I Thess. 4:16-17; John 14:3). When He comes at the end of the Tribulation Period, He will come with His Church (I Thess. 3:13; Rev. 19:14).

20) Concerning the Second Coming, Jesus said, “But of the day and the hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only” (Matt. 24:36). But if the Church goes through the Tribulation Period, some will know the day because it will be seven years from the signing of the seven-year covenant. Some will know the day because it will be 1260 days from the day the Antichrist defiles the Temple (Rev. 12:6).

21) Concerning the Antichrist, many scholars believe the Bible teaches he won’t be revealed until after the Church is gone (II Thess. 2:6-8), but if the Church goes through the Tribulation Period, some will know who he is because he will sign the seven-year covenant (Dan. 9:24-27), he will head up the world government (Rev. 13:1-10), he will try to force multitudes to worship him, and to receive his mark, receive his name or his number (Rev. 13:15-17). Many of those who are here and being forced to worship him and take his name or die will know who he is.

22) The Antichrist is not suppose to be revealed until after the Church is gone (II Thess. 2:6-8), but if the Church goes through the Tribulation Period, the Church will know who the Antichrist is because he will put a statue of himself in the rebuilt Temple (Dan. 11:31; Dan. 12:11; Matt. 24:15).

23) If the Church goes through the Tribulation Period, the Church will know who the Antichrist is because he will head up the world government and receive a deadly wound to his head that will be healed (Rev. 13:3). Some think he will be raised from the dead or at least fake the resurrection.

24) If the Church goes through the Tribulation Period, the Church will know who the Antichrist is because he will head up the world government and be supported by the head of the world religion called the False Prophet (Rev. 13:11-18).

25) If the Church goes through the Tribulation Period, the Church will know who the Antichrist is because he’s the one that will kill the Two Witnesses (Rev. 11:7).

26) Many people don’t think the Church will go through the Tribulation Period because of verses of Scripture that say things like, “The Lord preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked he will destroy” (Psa. 145:18-20). Many believe God will preserve the Church from the Tribulation Period or keep the Church out of the Tribulation Period not destroy the Church in the Tribulation Period.

27) There are verses of Scripture that say things like, “Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it” (Deut. 4:2; Prov. 30:5-6; Rev. 22:18-19). Some believe people have to throw away verses of Scripture to believe the Church will go through the Tribulation Period.

28) In the seven letters to the seven churches, Jesus said, “He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches” seven times (Rev. 2:7,11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22). When we get to the Tribulation Period, Jesus said, “If any man have an ear, let him hear” (Rev. 13:9). He left out, “what the Spirit saith unto the churches” because there are no churches on earth to go through the Tribulation Period. The Church will be in heaven.

29) When the Rapture happens the Church goes up to meet Jesus in the air (I Thess. 4:13-18), but at the end of the Tribulation Period the Church will come down to the earth with Jesus to witness what He does at the Battle of Armageddon (Rev. 19:14-21).

30) The Pre-Tribulation Rapture is more consistent with God’s grace, love, mercy, compassion, etc. The Mid and Post-Tribulation Rapture is more consistent God’s wrath.

31) If the Rapture takes place at the end of the Tribulation Period, and all the wicked are removed from the earth at that time (Matt. 13:24-30, 47-50; 25:41), no one will be left to re-populate the earth during the Millennium. If all of the saved are Raptured and all the lost are removed from the earth at the end of the Tribulation Period, no one will be left to re-populate the earth.

32) The Antichrist will prevail against the saints during the Tribulation Period, but the gates of hell won’t prevail against the Church (Rev. 13:7; Matt. 16:18). Therefore, the Church won’t go through the Tribulation Period.

33) The twenty-four elders [representatives of the Church] will be in heaven before the seven-sealed scroll is broken (Rev. 4:4; 6:1-17).

34) Jesus was talking about the Tribulation Period when He said, “Pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass” (Luke 21:36). He didn’t say, “Pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to endure some or all of these things that shall come to pass.”

35) There are no signs of the Rapture, but if the Rapture takes place during the Tribulation Period, it would have to be after the seven-year covenant is signed by the Antichrist, and perhaps after several other things depending upon what a person believes about Mid-Trib, Post-Trib, etc.

36) Jesus said, “When these things [the signs] begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads for your redemption draweth nigh” (Luke 21:28).He didn’t say, “After all these things have happened your redemption draweth nigh.” He said, “When these things begin to come to pass it’s close.”



Prophecy Plus Ministries
Daymond & Rachel Duck
daymondduck@bellsouth.net
rachelduck@bellsouth.net
 
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desmalia

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All of my life, I have been brought up to believe that the rapture will happen before the 7 years of trial and tribulations begin.

But on this very night, I was reading up on it. And several websites i've been to, people have said that the christians will have to endure the tribulations. They said this will come as a surprise and that some of the christians will deny their Father to save their life. They said the thought of the rapture happening first is to give christians ease of mind.

Is this true? I will never fear no evil. I will be ready to face the Antichrist if this is true. I was just wondering. I normally know truth when I hear it.. But this is confusing. If it is true, I want to spread the word to as many people as possible.:preach:

Be ready in season and out of season. Christian persecution and martyrdom has been around for a very long time and it's extremely naive for any of us to assume we'll be raptured before we have to face it.
 
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cubanito

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I am a mid-tribber myself. You will note that:
1- Paul in Thess mentions it happens at "the last trumpet" which is in the middle
2- It is at that same mid-trib that the two witnesses are physsically resurrected up to Heaven while the whole world watches,
3- The Scriptures say we will be kept from the time of the Great Tribulation, AKA "Jacob's troubles" If you read carefully you find a distinction between the "Tribulation" and the "GREAT Tribulation" the latter being the last half of the 7 years. As you read revelations you find the firrst half of the Trib (the trumpets) is mild in comparison to the last half.
4- Pre-trib and Post-Trib are both popular positions among true believers. The Scriptures warn Christ will come when we least expect. Mid-Trib is rarely even mentioned. Lots of movies, history channel specials and popular books have brought the pre-trib to the conciousness of even the mildly curious non-believer. How many superficial "Christians" will fall away as the skeptics scoff during the early part of the one world govt, peace treaty w Israel ect ect so that when the last trumpet sounds it catches the now demoralized pre-Tribbers AND the stoic post-tribbers in total surprise.

But in anycase, beyond premill, postmill or amill, I am a pan-mill. I am for whatever pans out as God's will

Ideas about the last times should NOT be at the center of our belief system. Doctrines of the last things should be the last things we should care about. Scriptural inerrance, the Gospel (both the REPENT which is these days so unfashionable as the be sved parts of it) and soooooooooooo many other issues should be more important that frankly, I worry about anyone whose Faith is at all shaken by which eschatology is in vogue.

JR
 
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But in anycase, beyond premill, postmill or amill, I am a pan-mill. I am for whatever pans out as God's will.

Ideas about the last times should NOT be at the center of our belief system. Doctrines of the last things should be the last things we should care about. Scriptural inerrance, the Gospel (both the REPENT which is these days so unfashionable as the be sved parts of it) and soooooooooooo many other issues should be more important that frankly, I worry about anyone whose Faith is at all shaken by which eschatology is in vogue.

JR

I have not studied end-times theology in quite some time, so I'm no match for arguing against your mid-tribulation position. Instead, I'll wholeheartedly agree with your last statements.


:amen:
 
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garry2

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I came across this just the other day. It was included in the ProphesyUpdate news letter I subscribe to, but it's originally from the RaptureReady website. Seems appropriate here.

Thirty–Six Pre-Trib Rapture Texts
- By Daymond Duck – Rapture Ready - Rapture resource for the end times

1) There are no passages in either the Old Testament or the New Testament that say the Church will go through the Tribulation Period.

2) The Tribulation Period is called the “Time of Jacob’s Trouble” [The time of unbelieving Israel’s Trouble], but it is never called the time of the Church’s Trouble (Jer. 30:7).

3) Gabriel told Daniel, “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people [Daniel’s people are the Jews] and upon thy holy city” [The Holy City is Jerusalem] (Dan. 9:24). There is no mention of the Church.

4) The Church had no part in the first sixty-nine weeks and it will have no part in the seventieth week [the Tribulation Period] (Dan. 9:24).

5) In the Book of Revelation, the Rapture occurs at Rev. 4:1 which is before the Tribulation Period described in Rev. 6:1-19:21. In the sequence of events, the Rapture is before the seal, trumpet and bowl judgments.

6) The Church is mentioned more than twenty times in the first three chapters of Revelation, but the Church is never mentioned in the description of the Tribulation Period between Rev. 4:1 and Rev. 19:1.

7) The Tribulation Period is called a Day of Wrath in the Bible (Zeph 1:15), but the Bible says, “God hath not appointed us [the Church] to wrath” (I Thess. 5:9).

8) The Tribulation Period is called a Day of Wrath in the Bible (Zeph. 1:15), but the Bible says, Jesus has “delivered us from the wrath to come” [delivered the Church from the Tribulation Period] (I Thess. 1:10).

9) The Tribulation Period is called the Day of the Lord in the Bible (Zeph. 1:14). The Bible says, “the day of the Lord [the Tribulation Period] so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they [the unbelievers] shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them [upon the unbelievers], as travail upon a woman with child; and they [the unbelievers] shall not escape” (I Thess. 5:2-3). It clearly teaches that the Tribulation Period will come upon unbelievers, but it does not include believers.

10) Concerning the Rapture, the Bible says, “Comfort one another with these words” (I Thess. 4:18). There’s no comfort in the teaching that the Church will go through part or all of the Tribulation Period.

11) Jesus told the Church at Philadelphia, “Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation [the Tribulation Period], which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth” (Rev. 3:10). God promised to keep the obedient Church members out of the Tribulation Period.

12) According to the Bible, the marriage of the Lamb will take place in heaven before Jesus comes back to fight the Battle of Armageddon at the end of the Tribulation Period (Rev. 19:7-21). This means the Church will go to heaven [be Raptured] for the marriage of the Lamb before the Second Coming.

13) The end of the age will be like the days of Noah (Matt. 24:37). Noah and his family were removed from the earth [got on the ark] before the flood. Some believe this means that the Church will be removed from the earth before the judgment of God [Raptured before the Tribulation Period] (Gen. 7:23).

14) The end of the age will be like the days of Lot (Luke 17:28). Lot and his family were removed from Sodom before the judgment of God [before the fire and brimstone fell] (Gen. 19:16). Some believe this means that the Church will be removed from the earth before the judgment of God [Raptured before the Tribulation Period].

15) Jesus was talking about the Tribulation Period when He said, “Pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass” (Luke 21:36). It seems unreasonable to believe Jesus would tell the Church to pray for something He is unwilling to grant.

16) The Bible says, “For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming” (II Thess. 2:7-8). The most common interpretation of this is that the Antichrist can’t be revealed until the Restrainer [who most commentators say is both the Holy Spirit and the Church] is removed. If the Restrainer is the Church only, this means the Church will be removed before the Antichrist is revealed [that’s the Pre-Trib. Rapture]. If the Restrainer is the Holy Spirit only so that the Holy Spirit is removed without the Church, this means believers will cease to be indwelt with the Holy Spirit. It also means the Church will be left behind to go through the worst time the earth has ever seen [the Tribulation Period] without the help of the Holy Spirit. This would contradict the teaching of Jesus when He said, “I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever” (John 14:16). And, “I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee” (Heb. 13:5).

17) Isaiah wrote that God said, “Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain” (Isa. 26:19-21). Notice, that the dead rise first [that’s the Rapture], next God’s people are summoned to enter into His chambers for a short while until the indignation [a name of the Tribulation Period is past]. God will raise the dead and summon His people because He intends to punish the inhabitants of the earth [send the Tribulation Period].

18) Malachi wrote that God said, “They shall be mine, saith the Lord of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not” (Malachi 3:17-18). Pre-Tribulation teachers believe God is saying He will come for His Church [the Rapture] and then He will return with His Church [the Second Coming] to judge between the righteous and wicked.

19) In the Rapture, Jesus comes for His Church (I Thess. 4:16-17; John 14:3). When He comes at the end of the Tribulation Period, He will come with His Church (I Thess. 3:13; Rev. 19:14).

20) Concerning the Second Coming, Jesus said, “But of the day and the hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only” (Matt. 24:36). But if the Church goes through the Tribulation Period, some will know the day because it will be seven years from the signing of the seven-year covenant. Some will know the day because it will be 1260 days from the day the Antichrist defiles the Temple (Rev. 12:6).

21) Concerning the Antichrist, many scholars believe the Bible teaches he won’t be revealed until after the Church is gone (II Thess. 2:6-8), but if the Church goes through the Tribulation Period, some will know who he is because he will sign the seven-year covenant (Dan. 9:24-27), he will head up the world government (Rev. 13:1-10), he will try to force multitudes to worship him, and to receive his mark, receive his name or his number (Rev. 13:15-17). Many of those who are here and being forced to worship him and take his name or die will know who he is.

22) The Antichrist is not suppose to be revealed until after the Church is gone (II Thess. 2:6-8), but if the Church goes through the Tribulation Period, the Church will know who the Antichrist is because he will put a statue of himself in the rebuilt Temple (Dan. 11:31; Dan. 12:11; Matt. 24:15).

23) If the Church goes through the Tribulation Period, the Church will know who the Antichrist is because he will head up the world government and receive a deadly wound to his head that will be healed (Rev. 13:3). Some think he will be raised from the dead or at least fake the resurrection.

24) If the Church goes through the Tribulation Period, the Church will know who the Antichrist is because he will head up the world government and be supported by the head of the world religion called the False Prophet (Rev. 13:11-18).

25) If the Church goes through the Tribulation Period, the Church will know who the Antichrist is because he’s the one that will kill the Two Witnesses (Rev. 11:7).

26) Many people don’t think the Church will go through the Tribulation Period because of verses of Scripture that say things like, “The Lord preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked he will destroy” (Psa. 145:18-20). Many believe God will preserve the Church from the Tribulation Period or keep the Church out of the Tribulation Period not destroy the Church in the Tribulation Period.

27) There are verses of Scripture that say things like, “Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it” (Deut. 4:2; Prov. 30:5-6; Rev. 22:18-19). Some believe people have to throw away verses of Scripture to believe the Church will go through the Tribulation Period.

28) In the seven letters to the seven churches, Jesus said, “He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches” seven times (Rev. 2:7,11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22). When we get to the Tribulation Period, Jesus said, “If any man have an ear, let him hear” (Rev. 13:9). He left out, “what the Spirit saith unto the churches” because there are no churches on earth to go through the Tribulation Period. The Church will be in heaven.

29) When the Rapture happens the Church goes up to meet Jesus in the air (I Thess. 4:13-18), but at the end of the Tribulation Period the Church will come down to the earth with Jesus to witness what He does at the Battle of Armageddon (Rev. 19:14-21).

30) The Pre-Tribulation Rapture is more consistent with God’s grace, love, mercy, compassion, etc. The Mid and Post-Tribulation Rapture is more consistent God’s wrath.

31) If the Rapture takes place at the end of the Tribulation Period, and all the wicked are removed from the earth at that time (Matt. 13:24-30, 47-50; 25:41), no one will be left to re-populate the earth during the Millennium. If all of the saved are Raptured and all the lost are removed from the earth at the end of the Tribulation Period, no one will be left to re-populate the earth.

32) The Antichrist will prevail against the saints during the Tribulation Period, but the gates of hell won’t prevail against the Church (Rev. 13:7; Matt. 16:18). Therefore, the Church won’t go through the Tribulation Period.

33) The twenty-four elders [representatives of the Church] will be in heaven before the seven-sealed scroll is broken (Rev. 4:4; 6:1-17).

34) Jesus was talking about the Tribulation Period when He said, “Pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass” (Luke 21:36). He didn’t say, “Pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to endure some or all of these things that shall come to pass.”

35) There are no signs of the Rapture, but if the Rapture takes place during the Tribulation Period, it would have to be after the seven-year covenant is signed by the Antichrist, and perhaps after several other things depending upon what a person believes about Mid-Trib, Post-Trib, etc.

36) Jesus said, “When these things [the signs] begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads for your redemption draweth nigh” (Luke 21:28).He didn’t say, “After all these things have happened your redemption draweth nigh.” He said, “When these things begin to come to pass it’s close.”



Prophecy Plus Ministries
Daymond & Rachel Duck
daymondduck@bellsouth.net
rachelduck@bellsouth.net
Yes it's quite clear.
 
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Hismessenger

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1.There are plenty of scripture which shows that the church will go though the tribulation

2 The time of Israels troubles is also the time of the churches trouble because the church is grafted into the nation Israel or is there no bible scholar who has surmised this from the scriptue.

3. It never ceases to amaze me how church folk always try and separate themselves from the nation Israel when it speaks of trouble when in fact and truth, the church is an extension of Israel. One body in Christ.

4 The church was still a mystery in Dan 9 so how do you draw a conclusion such as that.

5 Rev 4 mentions the sea of glass but nowhere is there any mention of the church. In Rev 15:2 this same sea of glass is made mention of again but the saints which it spotlights are the saints from tribulation who have overcome the beast. Funny how many jump at this supposed truth of pre trib without first searching out the scriptures for them selves. This is truly a doctrine of men.

6 THE CHURCH IS MENTIONED THROUGHOUT REV BUT THOSE WHO ACCEPT THIS DOCTRINE DON'T WANT TO SEE IT FOR WHAT IT IS.

7 There are many church members who truly have no understanding of the meaning of this passage. It is always looked at in the carnal but never in the true spirit of what it is saying. I thank God that God has removed us from eternal damnation which is what that passage truly means. It has nothing what soever to do with being removed from the tribulation period.

8 Yes Jesus delivered us from our sins which would cause us to suffer the wrath of God in the end in eternal fire.

9 Its funny how this is switched to unbelievers when it is in fact church members who seek to escape the suffering that Christ has said would come.

10 there is no scriptures which unequivocally say that the church is gone before this time. Allusions and interpretations which cannot be substantiated.

11 The hour of temptation is whether to believe the lie presented as truth or die for Christ which is the truth. He he would save His life shall lose it and many will accept the lie so that they won't have to die.

12 According to scripture, the church is married to Christ after the great white throne judgment. Rev 21:2

13 Noah was not removed from the earth and neither was Israel during the passover. God is able to keep you even in times of trouble. If you don't believe that then God is not the God for you. With God all things are possible. Believe it or not.

14 It says correctly, some believe!

15 Yes it says to pray but He didn't say how He was going to do it. That's a man made belief.

16 There is another side to the restrainer which most haven't seen. Satan is the one who restrains for until He is removed, the truth cannot come forth.
Those who believe His lie are the man of sin. That is part of Satan's deception. To make people believe that there is a person rather than themselves believing the lie. Check yourself for judgment begins in the houses of the Lord. Whose house are you?

17 See the 14th Chapter of Job and see where the chambers which we hide in are.

18 Believe, but can't substantiate, again only hoping for.

19 Jesus is at the right hand of the Father until the Father makes His enemies His footstool. Gospel word.

I think that I have shown enough holes for anyone who is truly seeking to know the truth to go look at what has been said and see if it lines up with the word of truth.

hismessenger
 
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ezek33

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All of my life, I have been brought up to believe that the rapture will happen before the 7 years of trial and tribulations begin.

But on this very night, I was reading up on it. And several websites i've been to, people have said that the christians will have to endure the tribulations. They said this will come as a surprise and that some of the christians will deny their Father to save their life. They said the thought of the rapture happening first is to give christians ease of mind.

Is this true? I will never fear no evil. I will be ready to face the Antichrist if this is true. I was just wondering. I normally know truth when I hear it.. But this is confusing. If it is true, I want to spread the word to as many people as possible.:preach:
Yes hippie, spread the word, do your best to undue the years of false indoctrination pretribbers have perpetrated upon the church
 
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Covenant Heart

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This Is An HUGE Area:

Take your time.

You need not come to unshakable conclusions this year, or the next. Know that the quality of posts varies widely. Some here have served on Bible translation committees. Others are guided urban legends and conspiracy theories, splattered with a few texts. You have everything in between.

We hear many voices in life.

I suggest listening to those that a reflect disciplined mind and a stable theology.

Blessings!

Covenant Heart
 
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garry2

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16 There is another side to the restrainer which most haven't seen. Satan is the one who restrains for until He is removed, the truth cannot come forth.

ummm, there is no truth today. That's funny :)

19 Jesus is at the right hand of the Father until the Father makes His enemies His footstool. Gospel word.

Glad he has come to that truth anyway. or does he still say the Father is at the right of the throne?
 
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