[moved] The Rapture vs The Second Coming

[tranquil]

One more thing:

In the Matt 25 passage above, it says the 'kingdom of heaven' is like 10 virgins that went out to meet the groom. Does Jesus mean literal 'heaven', or does he mean the kingdom of heaven on earth?

Clearly, he means the kingdom of heaven - on earth.
Rev 12

And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. 2 She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pains and the agony of giving birth. 3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems. 4 His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she bore her child he might devour it.

5 She gave birth to a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne, 6 and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which she is to be nourished for 1,260 days.
​

So why do people insist that when Rev 12 says, the 'child is 'harpazo'/ caught up to heaven, it has to mean people are 'magically whisked away'?

At the star sign of Rev 12 (Sept 23, 2017), the kingdom of heaven has started - on earth. But Jesus has not actually come yet - the groom is delayed.

He will come as a 'thief': Rev 16

12 The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, to prepare the way for the kings from the east. 13 And I saw, coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs. 14 For they are demonic spirits, performing signs, who go abroad to the kings of the whole world, to assemble them for battle on the great day of God the Almighty. 15 (“Behold, I am coming like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake, keeping his garments on, that he may not go about naked and be seen exposed!”) 16 And they assembled them at the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.​

this thief reference is a call back to Matthew 12:29 where Jesus will 'spoil'/ plunder/ harpazo the 5 wise virgins after the fall of Babylon/ the 'strong man is bound'.

 

[Blade]

Well.. for ME I always see two. Jesus as we know talked about END TIMES. Talked about one sleeping/working in the field. One taken one left. For ME.. this is "Caught up" aka rapture. Jesus did infact tell the 12 He was going back to make them a home and will come back and get them take them/receive them unto Himself so WHERE He is they will be. He said.. WHERE I go you know.

Now if you know about and old Jewish wedding. He pays a price for his bride. He then goes back to his fathers house to make them a home. She stays behind gets ready but .. has no idea when he is coming to get her. About a year later he comes back with friends mostly at night. As he gets closer he makes a noise so she knows he is coming. He takes her back to his fathers house for about a week .. yeah..about 7 days.

For me.. Jesus told the 12.. I will come get you. If it was not so I would tell you. So all Jesus new was He is coming back to get them. If He new it was in OUR day... then to tell them mislead them to lie to them saying I AM going but will come back and get you.. aka a lie. When did He come? Never did. So He does not have a clue when He is coming ..so in that way.. He can not lie. For me its clear there was NOTHING that had to happen for Jesus to come get them. Seems someone else knows.. but all of creation does not.

So for me.. as if I was standing there and HE told me He was leaving but would come back and get me.. I could careless what any person says. His words from His mouth written in His word.. says HE will come back and get us. So I live each day as if He is coming NOW! For ME there is no PRE MID or POST. Yet He is coming to get His Church. Dead will rise.. we that are still alive will then be caught up to meet Him in the AIR and it also says to be with Him forever.

Now as we can see from the WORLD and Christians saying "where is the PROMISE of His coming". So for ME if I was not ready not watching did not believe..and He came.. I would not go. He does not force us to believe or think or say anything. For ME I just take Him at HIS word.

You believe John 3:16..then believe what He said.. He went back to make you a home and WILL come back and get you PERIOD. You will not know the day.. for darkness it will be like a thief in the night but you are not of darkness not of this world. So if you feel you have to WORK as this as if your sins require you to work all this out.. that nothing is free and you have to endure till the end.. Guess what? He will say NOTHING. You and I are free. You have to have FAITH. That is the ONLY way to please Him.

Just take HIM at HIS word. If HE said I AM COMING BACK TO GET YOU.. then SHHH.. and be ready NOW. THINK... everything written was said WHEN? No out MANS time but GODS time? Its ALWAYS NOW for Him. We keep reading thinking it was said thousands of years ago.. true.. but to Him.. Jesus just left over 2 day ago or two thousand years ago? Be ready now...is what I live... if you dont agree..praise GOD..were family and JESUS IS LORD PRAISE GOD GLORY TO JESUS

 

[ByTheSpirit]

The rapture doctrine is a lie. Plain and simple

 

[faroukfarouk]

There are similarities between the Rapture and the Second Coming, and this has caused many to mistakenly think they are the same. We see similarities in that, with both speak of glory, a gathering, a trumpet, angels, and clouds. Although there are similarities, there many differences as well. The differences demonstrate that these two future comings should never be joined into one event. The comparisons that follow demonstrate this conclusion.

The Rapture takes place before the Tribulation period.
1Thes.1:10
The Second Coming takes place 'after the Tribulation.
Matt.24:29

The Rapture of the Church is a message of grace, joy, and peace.
1Thes.1:1,10; 2Tim.4:8; Titus 2:13
The Second Coming is about judgement, vengeance, and wrath.
Psa.50:3; Joel 3:9-16; Rev.19:11-21

For the Rapture, the Body of Christ is told to look for Christ, not signs.
Phil.3:20,21
Israel is told to look for signs of Christ's Second Coming.
Matt.24:3,15,33; Luke 21:28

Believers have "comfort" and "rest" at the Rapture.
1Thes 4:18; 5:11; 2Thes. 1:7; 2:16,17
The earth will "mourn" at the Second Coming and there will be great fear.
Zech.12:10; Matt.24:30; Rev.1:7

The Rapture results in LIFE. Members of the Body of Christ are raised from the dead at the Rapture.
1Cor.15:52; 1Thes.4:16
The Second Coming results in DEATH. Carcasses from Armageddon cover the ground.
Psa.110:5,6; Zech.14:12; Matt.24:28; Rev.19:17,18

The Rapture marks the end of the Dispensation of Grace.
Rom.11:25; 1Cor.15:51,52
The Second Coming marks the "end of the world," the end of the Tribulation.
Matt.14:3

Those trusting in the death, burial, and resurrection have hope of the Rapture.
1Thes.1:14
Those who believe Jesus is Israel's Messiah and endure to the end will be saved by the Second Coming.
Matt.10:22; 24:14; John 20;31

Our burden in light of the Rapture is to teach others for Christ so they are not left behind to go into the Tribulation
1Thes 5:4-8
The burden of Israel in light of the Second Coming will be for God's vengeance to be poured out on their enemies.
Psa. 5; 58; 59; 79

These seem like good, Scriptural distinctions.

 

[faroukfarouk]

The rapture doctrine is a lie. Plain and simple

The OP has some interesting and clear distinctions in the various Scripture quotes.

 

[ewq1938]

The rapture doctrine is a lie. Plain and simple

Except Paul wrote of the rapture so how can it be a lie?

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

The rapture doctrine is a lie. Plain and simple

You overstate your point. There is a vast distinction to be made between a misunderstanding and a lie, one of which is far less polite.

 

[keras]

Except Paul wrote of the rapture so how can it be a lie?

What Paul prophesied about was never a 'rapture removal of the church to heaven'. He did say that at the glorious Return of Jesus for His Millennial reign, those who remain; that's is all who survive the Great Trib, will be transported to meet Jesus in the air, as He descends to earth.
Gathered by Jesus' angels, Matthew 24:31, in the same manner as Philip; suddenly taken away from the eunuch.

You overstate your point. There is a vast distinction to be made between a misunderstanding and a lie, one of which is far less polite.

Why be polite when refuting something not actually stated anywhere in the Bible? The idea of a rapture to heaven for any group is only construed by inference and assumption and to say belief in such a false doctrine, is just 'misunderstanding', when so many people have grasped onto it as a way out of what, in their ignorance, they see as bad times ahead.
it directly conflicts with what God actually does plan for His people; of their protection during His terrible Day of wrath, the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster and going to live in all of the holy Land.

 

[ewq1938]

What Paul prophesied about was never a 'rapture removal of the church to heaven'.

I never said that's what he said. It is being said that the rapture is a lie and that's false. There certainly are false versions of the rapture but that's a different issue.

He did say that at the glorious Return of Jesus for His Millennial reign, those who remain; that's is all who survive the Great Trib, will be transported to meet Jesus in the air, as He descends to earth.

And that transporting is the rapture, the Greek word harpazo being used.

Why be polite when refuting something not actually stated anywhere in the Bible?

It's against the rules not to be polite Plus, the rapture concept is written by Paul. The living saints "caught up" to meet Jesus in the clouds. That's what Paul wrote and that's what is factual.

The idea of a rapture to heaven for any group is only construed by inference and assumption and to say belief in such a false doctrine

I agree but that is one version of what people think the rapture is. It still remains the rapture, as written by Paul, is true. Other's versions and additions to what Paul wrote are not true.

 

[keras]

I agree but that is one version of what people think the rapture is. It still remains the rapture, as written by Paul, is true. Other's versions and additions to what Paul wrote are not true.

The vital difference is what Paul prophesied is simply a earthly relocation, albeit into the clouds, initially. Calling that transportation a 'rapture', confuses it with the false 'rapture to heaven' that people are so badly deceived about.

 

[ewq1938]

The vital difference is what Paul prophesied is simply a earthly relocation, albeit into the clouds, initially. Calling that transportation a 'rapture', confuses it with the false 'rapture to heaven' that people are so badly deceived about.

I disagree. The word he used is rapture, using the Greek harpazo which means rapture. It is a rapture to the clouds to meet Jesus just as Paul writes, not a rapture to heaven itself.

The rapture is true IF ONE UNDERSTANDS IT CORRECTLY.

 

[drayanna]

It's pretty clear, even in what you have posted, that what the Scriptures are speaking of is one event observed from two different perspectives.

Tax season is a wonderful time for those who receive refunds. Quite often they get back even more than they actually paid in. Merry Taxmas!

For many others, though, it is seen as painful time when large checks must be written and sent in to the government to pay for inefficient programs and bloated bureaucracy which they experience very little benefit from.

Well see you missed main point....
I prepared for taxes by paying more money in every paycheck (give to Cesar etc.) And although 3 children 2 adults claim 0. This means I prepared because I knew it was coming and if I didn't keep diligent as Jesus says through out Rev "I come as a thief"
Always ready.......
Second coming will be counted down from the moment the 70th week starts for the nation of Israel.
Jesus said He comes like a thief. We don't know when but be ready/prepared

 

[drayanna]

This is the rapture! The Greek word for rapture is harpazo and that's the term used by Paul!

So, the proper order of events according to scripture:
You say:
1. the second coming begins/Christ leaves heaven. (1Th 4:16) (this doesn't happen until the tribulation has ended, Mat_24:29)

Revelation says:
1.144,000 pacific Jewish tribes are sealed for protection. In the tribulation period. REV. Seal 6 (remember before harm on earth) after that simultaneously:
1]Earthquake
2]Sun blocked (blackened) Most likely volcanoes eruptions
3]moon red (most likely volcano related)
4]stars fall (possible dragon tail related)
5]Heavens fold up like a scroll.. (rapture, catching up, the thief has come, to late for those that were not ready with the oil of the Holy Spirit (as the 5 virgins without oil)
6] mountains/islands Move (plates shifting as would be expected with our core)
7]men of all kinds (those who knew about Jesus but did not prepare with the oil of the Holy Spirit) say:Rev 6
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
RAPTURE, catching up, like a thief Jesus came for His Bride. And then as the men left on earth says "The Wrath Of The Lamb has Begun"

You say:
2. the resurrection. (dead saints resurrect bodily in heaven and follow Christ as he returns to the Earth-second coming) (1Th 4:14-16)

Revelation says:
That John sees-9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of (all) nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands.
Who are these unnumberable people?
Rev says:
These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb
these can't be those during the 70th week because unnumberable. These are before the Wrath of the Lamb. So they are those washed by the blood of the lamb from the time of the cross to rapture/catching up.

seal 7
*in heaven-silence then trumpets opened
*on earth -the wrath of the Lamb begins.

You say:
3. the rapture. (living saints on Earth are gathered together from where ever they are on the Earth in order to meet Christ in the clouds when he arrives)(1Th 4:17)

This proves the pre-trib (and mid-trib) rapture to be false because the second coming comes after the tribulation not before or during it, Mat 24:29-30)

THIS DOES NOT!
amazingly you have used this verse as proof yet it proves you wrong. Why would Jesus take the bride when there is no more living saints on Earth During the wrath of God? Tribulations is used many times in reference to the 70th week but also Paul used it as a fellow servant in tribulation. James comments to be joyful in trials and tribulations. When you follow Rev as a guide to the end you see there are two reaping points. The first is the Son of Man described in Daniel and this is the rapture of washed robes in the blood of the Lamb . The other is a Angel out of the temple. However this second reaping does not turn out so well for those left behind who took the mark . But what's important here is going on to where The Angel who says No More Time..... this is not time line but the time for mercy is over. the last 3 1/2 years of the 70th week are the Wrath of God but before the wrath of God is released there was another group seen different than the first group that was before the wrath of the Lamb and it reads like this :
And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
(this group is the mid-catching up; the second reaping but for those left on earth now is the not so great part. None find mercy for all of those left on earth the last 3 1/2 years are those who took the mark.
For only those who took the mark suffer the wrath of God...
Rev 14:9
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God,


So, the proper order of events according to scripture:

You have not taken in the events as told by the eye witness. He saw 1)in heaven 2)on earth 3)wonders as well as the fact that the ones washed in the blood of the Lamb before God's throne before the trumpets and the vials. The unnumberable people give this no doubt who they are.... they are not on earth During THE Trumpets Nor Vials.
Can't even be during the 70th week because we could count how many are on earth today. This is the bride.

However you want to look at it though is ok though as long as your one of the bride's.

Israel though, has to face the 70th week. But only because there is a special bond and promises with God the Father and His people.

 

[BABerean2]

Israel though, has to face the 70th week.

Daniel chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner

Act 10:38　 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.　

Heb 10:16　 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;　
Heb 10:17　 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.　
Heb 10:18　 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

.　

 

[Quasar92]

One more thing.
The Rapture was never revealed in the past and is only found in the Apostle Paul's letters, Romans through Philemon.
1Cor. 15:51
The Second Coming is predicted in the Old Testament, the Gospels, and the Hebrew epistles.
Isa, 64:1,2; 66:15-18; Mark 13:24-26; Jude 14,15.

Brian Bill

You might have a look at John 14:2-3 and 28.


Quasar92

 

[Quasar92]

This thread starts out by equating the word "wrath" with the word "tribulation".
The problem is that the Greek words for these two English words are not the same.

1Th 1:10　 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.　(Greek- orge)


Mat 24:29　 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.　
(Greek- thlipsis)


For the first 1800 years of the history of the Church it was understood that the resurrection event at the end of 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 would occur at the beginning of Christ's Second Coming. The timing of the event is found at the beginning of chapter 5.
This can be confirmed by thousands of pages of commentaries and sermons from the time of the American Revolutionary War. Based on those historical documents, no American pastor taught a pretrib removal of the Church at that time.

Many today have no idea why modern Dispensational Theology needs a pretrib removal of the Church to make its doctrine work.
Based on the older "classic" version of the doctrine brought to America by John Nelson Darby, about the time of the Civil War, God will end the "Church Age" and then go back and deal with modern Israel under the Old Covenant system.

The following scripture must be ignored to make the doctrine work.

The New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, is found fulfilled by Christ in Hebrews 8:6-13. It is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:18-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.

Based on Hebrews 8:13, the New Covenant has made the Old Covenant "obsolete".
We find in Hebrews 13:20 that the New Covenant is "everlasting".
Therefore, the claim that God will end the New Covenant Church and then go back and deal with modern Israel under the Old Covenant system is found to be in error.

On the Day of Pentecost Peter addressed the crowd as "men of Judea", then as "men of Israel", and in Acts 2:36 as "all the house of Israel". Peter was addressing the crowd as Israelites. On that day about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah chapter 31. No one can ignore the fact that when the Church began it was made up almost entirely of Israelites. The Gentiles were grafted in several years later. The Church as a whole has never been a "Gentile Church", as some today claim.

In Matthew 26:28 we find Christ revealing that He would fulfill this New Covenant "with many" in His Blood.

The greatest error of Dispensational Theology is the claim that modern Jews will come to salvation outside of the New Covenant Church. This claim hangs on changing the word "so", which is an adverb of manner, into the word "then", which is an adverb of timing in Romans 11:26. This change is found in the Jesuit book "Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty" by Manuel Lacunza. (See the YouTube video "Genesis of Dispensational Theology", for confirmation.)

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant of Christ, the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology is seen for what it really is.

Joh 10:16　 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.　


The history of the modern pretrib doctrine and modern Dispensational Theology is found below, for anyone who really wants to know how and when the doctrine started.

Genesis of Dispensational Theology
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee4RS5pDntQ


PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26
http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418


Lacunza, Manuel, “Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty“
PDF Files


Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf


Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf


Great Errors in Dispensational Eschatology: Pastor John Otis

Left Behind or Led Astray?
Good Fight Ministries
http://www.leftbehindorledastray.com/


Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt0L2B0JjDM

.

"What is Covenant Theology and is it Biblical?"

Covenant theology is based on the theory that God has only one covenant with men (the covenant of grace) and only one people, represented by the Old and New Testament saints—one people, one church and one plan for all. These beliefs require the adherents of covenant theology to interpret prophecy in a nonliteral way. Dispensationalism, on the other hand, is a system of theology with two primary distinctives: (1) a consistently literal interpretation of Scripture, especially Bible prophecy, and (2) a distinction between Israel and the Church in God's program.

Those who hold to covenant theology believe that there is, and has always been, only one people of God. They believe that Israel was the Church in the Old Testament, and the Church is Israel in the New Testament. The promises of land, many descendants, and blessing to Israel in the Old Testament have been “spiritualized” and applied to the Church in the New Testament because of Israel’s unbelief and rejection of their Messiah. Those who hold to covenant theology also do not interpret prophecy in a normal sense. As an example, in Revelation 20, the thousand-year reign of Christ is spoken of. Covenant theology would say that the number 1,000 is symbolic and really does not mean a literal 1,000 years. They would say that we are in the millennium right now, that the reign of Christ with His saints is going on in heaven right now, and that the 1,000-year period is symbolic, beginning with the first coming of Christ and ending when He returns.

Scripturally, covenant theology is wrong in both how Israel is viewed and how prophecy is interpreted. The proper method for interpreting Scripture is to read it in a normal sense. Unless the text indicates that it is using some kind of figurative language, it should be taken literally. When Scripture speaks of Israel, it is not referring to the Church, and when the Church is spoken of, it is not referring to Israel. God has one plan for Israel and another for the Church. Also, with reference to prophecy, all prophecies that have been fulfilled were fulfilled literally, not figuratively. Christ literally fulfilled the Old Testament prophecies about the Messiah when He came 2,000 years ago. There is no reason to think that unfulfilled prophecies are to be understood in a figurative sense. As with those in the past, future prophecy will be fulfilled literally in the future.

In Romans 11:1, Paul poses the question of Israel’s future and answers it definitively: “I ask then: ‘Did God reject his people?’ By no means!” The rest of the chapter makes it clear that Israel has been “hardened” or temporarily set aside “in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in” (Romans 11:25). Israel did not become the Church; rather, the Church was “grafted in” (v. 17) to the root of God’s family, creating one body out of the two, while they remain separate in origin, although united in the faith. If the Church was to replace Israel, the imagery would be as a tree (Israel) uprooted and replaced by another (the Church). But the imagery of a branch grafted into a tree is perfectly clear. This is the “mystery” Paul speaks of in verse 25. A mystery in the New Testament refers to something previously not revealed, and the idea of another group of people becoming part of the chosen people of God was unheard of to the Jews at that time.

Will God cast away His people Israel? No, God will not cast away His people. On the contrary, verse 25 and following says, "God will save his people." At some future point, “the deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.” Here is God’s promise to His chosen people for their future restoration. What a glorious plan! No wonder the contemplation of it caused Paul to burst forth with “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!” God is faithful, He is merciful and His plans are perfect, and one day both Jew and Gentile will worship the Lord Jesus Christ as one body.

Recommended Resource: The Moody Handbook of Theology by Paul Enns

Quasar92
__________________

 

[BABerean2]

"What is Covenant Theology and is it Biblical?"

Covenant theology is based on the theory that God has only one covenant with men (the covenant of grace) and only one people, represented by the Old and New Testament saints—one people, one church and one plan for all.

I am not and never have been a proponent of Reformed Covenant Theology, which is what is being described in this article you have posted.


There are clearly two different covenants found in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 12:18-24.

There is the Sinai Covenant put in place at Mount Sinai. (Exodus 34:28.)

There is the New Covenant which Christ spoke of at the Last Supper (Matthew 26:28), which was promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and was fulfilled at Calvary.


Reformed Covenant Theology makes the mistake of claiming that the covenant was given to Adam in the Garden and that the New Covenant is merely a "New Administration" of the Old Covenant.
This is why they insist on attempting to keep the 4th commandment.

On the other hand, modern Dispensational Theology attempts to ignore the New Covenant to make its "Two Peoples of God" doctrine work.

The book "Abraham's Four Seeds", by Pastor John G. Reisinger reveals the problems with both of these manmade systems of interpretation.


The New Covenant: Bob George

Overview of Covenants: Abraham to Christ, by David H.J. Gay

.

 

[pshun2404]

It is at the parousia (the coming) when He gathers us to Himself. Paul says according to the word of the Lord "at the coming" we are caught up together to meet Him (apentensis) in the air...at the same event the Anti-Christ is consumed by the brightness of His glory. Now assuming "rapturists" do not claim two raptures, one for Christians and a second for trib Jews who come to Christ, all of this happens at the same event.

The rapture/first resurrection (a simulatanoeous event according to Jesus and Paul) and then the destruction of the Anti-Christ immediately ensues (we already being with Him), and then the wrath of God is poured out...we are here during the Anti-Christ's half of the Trib...be ready, do not take the mark, or worship his image (unto death if that is required of you)...keep your lamp full and your wicks trimmed.

 

[drayanna]

Daniel chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner

Act 10:38　 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.　

Heb 10:16　 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;　
Heb 10:17　 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.　
Heb 10:18　 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

.　

I can't watch your video
And not sure what your trying to say here but guessing you don't agree with 70th week for Israel.
My meaning is that the 144,000 are Jewish tribes chosen like Paul (Paul referred as one out of due time) to go through the first half of the 70th week. This is in revaluation.
They are to witness to all that Jesus was the Messiah while the anti-christ is setting up as well as the 2 witnesses warnings in Israel for all to see. However there is a point there is no more time before God releases His wrath on those who took the mark. It's very clear in revaluation.
I know for a fact that there is a difference in those like King David and those like John.
Even though both Jewish people in the last Kingdom there are 12 gates 3 on each side of the Kingdom these gates are named after the 12 tribes of Israel mentioned in Rev.
Then there is 12 foundations 1 between each gate named for the 12 apostles of the Lamb.
This leaves no doubt there is a difference in these two groups that will be with Jesus.
As well as Jesus saying he must take another fold of sheep which is the gentiles that fall under the apostles of the Lamb.

 

[drayanna]

It is at the parousia (the coming) when He gathers us to Himself. Paul says according to the word of the Lord "at the coming" we are caught up together to meet Him (apentensis) in the air...at the same event the Anti-Christ is consumed by the brightness of His glory. Now assuming "rapturists" do not claim two raptures, one for Christians and a second for trib Jews who come to Christ, all of this happens at the same event.

The rapture/first resurrection (a simulatanoeous event according to Jesus and Paul) and then the destruction of the Anti-Christ immediately ensues (we already being with Him), and then the wrath of God is poured out...we are here during the Anti-Christ's half of the Trib...be ready, do not take the mark, or worship his image (unto death if that is required of you)...keep your lamp full and your wicks trimmed.

I completely disagree.....
*There are two reaping ' s in Revelation
*And two different groups John describes.
1)in 6th seal washed by blood of lamb and described as a # no man can count. This can only be the bride and before the trumpets are sounded.
Then after the trumpets (end of 3 1/2 years there is a second reaping but this one is done not as the Son of Man describes in first reaping but by a angel out of the Temple. They are those that did not take the mark.
There is two very distinct differences in this.

But again one is like a thief comes
The other is a countdown.
The two witnesses hold the key to when the 2nd group is seen as well as this group is described at the point of the vials, the Wrath of God on all that took the mark which is all that is left on earth.