[Moved from American Politics] Is this death biblicly justifiable?

Nurbz

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Ok, I'm against this, but while reading about the the OT vs NT debate and what is and isn't part of the law, I came across this report. He was gay, and he was killed for it, which is what God put forth to Moses among other crimes.

You all know the verse by now:
Lev. 20:13
"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."

AND

Timothy 1:8–11
But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.

Though people have said, even here that the Jesus' coming nullified the old covenant, but from Jesus' own mouth, he states the law (OT) is still in place until the world ends:

Matthew 5:17-18
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.


So I put forth these questions based on the above for the purposes of discussion, because I know there are some here who think that OT is still in place and those that don't:
A) While it is against current eathly law, is it against biblical law?
B) If the OT is void and punishment is no longer valid, why fight their desire to marry, adopt, serve in the military or teach?
C) If OT is void, why are we christians still concerned with the 10 Commandments?

YouTube - Public schoolgirl guilty of homophobic killing
 
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Sketcher

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A) While it is against current eathly law, is it against biblical law?
Yes. Even if killing someone for being gay were still the thing to do, he had no trial. These were just thuggish youths being thuggish. Furthermore, if we go by the example of the first Christians, they went and preached to sorcerers (Acts 8:4-25, 19:8-20) who in the Law were to be executed (Exodus 22:18). Imagine that, they didn't form death squads, but instead they preached to them and performed exorcisms. This makes clear the mission of the church, which isn't to go out and kill sinners, but to preach to them and let them encounter God. This doesn't mean that homosexuality or sorcery or any of that became OK all of a sudden, it just tells us that our approach to sinners changed.

B) If the OT is void and punishment is no longer valid, why fight their desire to marry, adopt, serve in the military or teach?
It would be wrong to call the OT void. Paul after all said much in favor of it (2 Tim 2:16-17). What changed was not right and wrong, but rather once Jesus came, God's people went from a theocratic mission to an evangelical mission.

As far as the marriage issue, it's like this: Jesus defined marriage as between one man and one woman, for life (Matthew 19:4-6). Gay marriage therefore is an oxymoron. So is an adulterous remarriage. If I were around to vote on the no-fault divorce issue, I would have voted against it. Today, if it comes to my voting ballot, I will vote against gay "marriage." Why? Because there's a difference between saying "these people can do this" and saying "marriage is this." If they want to live together, I don't care. If they want to see each other in the hospital, fine. But whatever they have is not and cannot be marriage. And quite frankly, marriage is a provision of the church, not the state. The state is too involved in marriage as it is.

C) If OT is void, why are we christians still concerned with the 10 Commandments?
Again, it is wrong to call the OT void. God's standards for right and wrong did not change. But we need to understand the difference between Jew and Gentile, and the history of the church. God has different standards of behavior for Jews and for Gentiles. Gentiles have what are called the Seven Laws of Noah. These commands are universal rules of morality, everyone has to follow them. They would be:
  1. Worship God alone
  2. Do not blaspheme God
  3. Do not murder
  4. Save sex for marriage - no homosexuality, adultery, incest, inappropriate behavior with animals, etc
  5. Do not steal
  6. Do not eat flesh taken from a live animal - don't maim or strangle animals
  7. Keep courts of justice
Jews on the other hand, have the Law of Moses. This includes these laws, and adds hundreds more - including the kosher diet, the ban on tattoos, keeping Sabbath. Now, Jesus came, and he died for both Jew and Gentile, since he came to redeem both Jew and Gentile. The Holy Spirit showed in a very powerful way that Gentiles did not have to become Jews first in order to become proper Christians. The Gentiles then came to the church in droves. The Apostles, who were Jewish, wrote to mixed churches, and among the commands they wrote to these mixed churches was the command to honor your parents (Col. 3:20), the command against greed (coveting, Col. 3:5), and the command not to practice deceit (Col. 3:9). So between the Seven Laws of Noah and these two commands to the general church, Christians have 9 out of the 10 commandments. Jews have consistently held that the Sabbath was for them, and not for the Gentiles, though recently they have decided that a Gentile may keep Sabbath if he wants. Christianity has always leaned this way (Romans 14:5-6a).
 
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singpeace

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O I hate that this is so long. I've tried to shorten it. Very sorry.

I totally understand where people come from with this kind of issue, and I agree it makes sense to wonder, ‘if God is merciful, why does He seem to want to kill over so many things in the OT?
I couldn't answer the first two people who raised this question; yet, I knew there had to be a logical answer. So I studied, and I think I found the answer.

Here is my layman’s best interpretation of what I found.

First, the Dead Sea Scrolls record historical facts that coincide with much of the OT, including the pagan gods worshiped back then. Almost all of mankind turned its back on God to worship the pagan gods.

Four of the pagan gods found in Scripture are Molech, Chemosh, Topheth, and Baal. Those that worshiped them did so by sacrificing their own infants and children. They threw them into the idol furnaces and had wild sex orgies near the idol while their children screamed and burned. One of God's commandments was that they not sacrifice their children to Molech or their penalty would be death. Not long after this commandment, one tribe actually sacrificed their children TO Jehovah God as a mockery.

Our Father continued to plead with and warn the people for years while He also continued to rescue them when they cried out to him.

Satan wanted to destroy all possibility for a Messiah to be born of a virgin by corrupting mankind with sexual perversion.

Once the writing of the Law was finished, God told Moses to tell the people, “I have put life and death before you very plain. Choose life.”

I can provide the scriptures as well as links to the Dead Sea Scrolls articles if anyone wants them.
 
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DaisyDay

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Satan's plan was to make man so corrupt and vile with sexual addictions that there would be no virgins for the Messiah to be born.
The more men are gay, the more virgin girls, don't you think?

I can provide the scriptures as well as links to the Dead Sea Scrolls articles if anyone wants them.
Yes, please.
 
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salida

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The OT isn't void. The difference is that God shows grace versus judgement. In the OT the jews had to follow specific rules to protect them from pagans and corruption. Their sins were covered by animal sacrifices. Today in the grace dispensation because Christ is the perfect sacrifice-our sins are taken away by accepting Christ who died for mankinds sins.

We can't keep the 10 commandments all the time 100% of the time but Jesus did. This is why mankind needs a lord and savor.

If your serious about understanding the whys of this- then read below.

Why is God so different in the Old Testament than He is in the New Testament?
http://www.gotquestions.org/God-different.html
How do I get the image of God as imposing and angry out of my mind?
http://www.gotquestions.org/God-imposing.html
Why is God so different in the OT than He is in the NT?
http://www.gotquestions.org/difference-old-new-testaments.html 
Why should we study tyhe OT?
http://www.gotquestions.org/old-testament.html

Surprised this is in the political area.
 
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allhart

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The OT laws show us our sin and in the NT Jesus Christ doesn't abolish the law but fulfills it, however; by given us grace of time we still have to make a choice! God would like reconciliation but that does take physio analyzing our motives and behavior by looking at our intent and fears! Our mirror into the realm of sin is reflected in our relationships with one another. Most want to just be the king of their world! Most people of authority have abused their authority and suppress rebellion, but God hasn't and has backed off! Humans transfer their experienced behavior with one another over authority onto God, but God hasn't chose to use His ability's to stomp out our rebellion, but is trying to show us He's Meek, Humble at heart and His Love for us!

And even me, I have a hard time giving up control...... my illusion of control. We are so preoccupied with jockeying for position to be king and defending ourselves we can't see we have no control over anything, expect in how we react to it all!

God isn't on anyone's side......we just need to get on His side!

BTW isn't it strange we can't identify ourselves as individual human beings but we can define ourselves by our sin! Truly I say unto you the minority of today is the individual!
 
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sdmsanjose

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The drunken girl that was convicted of manslaughter for attacking a senior citizen homosexual, who later died, does not correlate to the scriptures that you posted.

This girl that was out on a drunken night had been convicted of assault at the age of 15 before she attacked the homosexual and was not fulfilling any scriptural laws or teachings.
 
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Cre Master

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When the crowd had gathered to stone the adultress Jesus stepped in and set her free. Wasn't he honoring the law which says thou shalt kill and placing it higher than the one regarding adultery?

A more modern example might be the fact that Australia has an extradition treaty with the USA however this is put aside if the accused will face the death penalty if returned to the US.
 
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JCFantasy23

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MOD HAT ON

2020857876_4a7f7e34c2.jpg


Moving from American Politics to Christian Philosophy & Ethics, where Staff feels it will receive better responses. Thanks :)

MOD HAT OFF
 
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