MOVED Controversial Bible massacre game

[JohnClay]

I'll do it, but I want pandas.

The plan is that if you hold down the P and A keys, the bear turns into a panda. I'm not sure if I'll put in a second bear.... if I do I'm not sure if it would use AI so the computer controls it.

I am planning on putting Elisha in the level but if you kill the prophet it says "Naughty bear!!!" (if you kill the youths only it says "Good Job!!!")

 

[JohnClay]

BTW for the killing of 1000 and 144,000 animals, I'm not sure who the player character would be.... maybe a priest?

Hi I didn't seem to get a reply.... for now I'm going to make the killer be a priest....

Well I asked a friend on Facebook who is a kind of a university chaplain and he sometimes is a guest preacher at my church...

"Hey mate, I think you’re right. There would have had to be a lot of people involved."

 

[ewq1938]

 

[JohnClay]

I think the bears should be pandas.

Hi I've added the panda cheat. Press P and A and the killer turns into two pandas. I've decided to give the prophet Elisha brownish skin to be inclusive.

 

[Petros2015]

That's awesome; what development platform are you using?

 

[Petros2015]

I always loved this part 2 Kings Chapter 9, I can just see the expression on Joram's face...

16 Then he got into his chariot and rode to Jezreel, because Joram was resting there and Ahaziah king of Judah had gone down to see him.

17 When the lookout standing on the tower in Jezreel saw Jehu’s troops approaching, he called out, “I see some troops coming.”
“Get a horseman,” Joram ordered. “Send him to meet them and ask, ‘Do you come in peace?’”
18 The horseman rode off to meet Jehu and said, “This is what the king says: ‘Do you come in peace?’”
“What do you have to do with peace?” Jehu replied. “Fall in behind me.”
The lookout reported, “The messenger has reached them, but he isn’t coming back.”

Uhoh.

19 So the king sent out a second horseman. When he came to them he said, “This is what the king says: ‘Do you come in peace?’”
Jehu replied, “What do you have to do with peace? Fall in behind me.”
20 The lookout reported, “He has reached them, but he isn’t coming back either. The driving is like that of Jehu son of Nimshi—he drives like a maniac.”

UHOH.

21 “Hitch up my chariot,” Joram ordered. And when it was hitched up, Joram king of Israel and Ahaziah king of Judah rode out, each in his own chariot, to meet Jehu. They met him at the plot of ground that had belonged to Naboth the Jezreelite. 22 When Joram saw Jehu he asked, “Have you come in peace, Jehu?”

“How can there be peace,” Jehu replied, “as long as all the idolatry and witchcraft of your mother Jezebel abound?”
23 Joram turned about and fled, calling out to Ahaziah, “Treachery, Ahaziah!”

======

Not a lot of numbers associated with what follows - Jehu was annointed King earlier in the chapter by a young Elisha


4 So the young prophet went to Ramoth Gilead. 5 When he arrived, he found the army officers sitting together. “I have a message for you, commander,” he said.
“For which of us?” asked Jehu.
“For you, commander,” he replied.

6 Jehu got up and went into the house. Then the prophet poured the oil on Jehu’s head and declared, “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘I anoint you king over the Lord’s people Israel. 7 You are to destroy the house of Ahab your master, and I will avenge the blood of my servants the prophets and the blood of all the Lord’s servants shed by Jezebel. 8 The whole house of Ahab will perish. I will cut off from Ahab every last male in Israel—slave or free.a]">[a] 9 I will make the house of Ahab like the house of Jeroboam son of Nebat and like the house of Baasha son of Ahijah. 10 As for Jezebel, dogs will devour her on the plot of ground at Jezreel, and no one will bury her.’”

Then he opened the door and ran.

===

Chapter 10 has 70 heads in 2 piles outside the city gates and also the massacre of the priests of the Baal, kinda mafioso style. Check it out.

Needs more pandas though.

 

[Norbert L]

Hi I am doing a game design university subject and I've decided for my "serious" game project it will involve the Bible... my lecturer said I seemed to be respectful and that she approves of my idea.

Title: Epic Bible Massacres

Player experience goal: The player will feel shocked and overwhelmed

Serious purpose: to learn about some of the most shocking passages in the Old Testament.

Target audience: open-minded people who want to learn about controversial parts in the Bible. Including people who are looking for problems in the Bible or want to test their faith.

I think I won't include any blood. The graphics would use stick figures (at least in the prototypes).

So here are the level ideas so far:






I consider myself to be a very liberal Christian. Like some liberal Christians I'm not sure that all of those stories happened as exactly as they are recorded in the Bible.

What do people think? Should this kind of game be banned?

Of the approximate billion Christians, how many are familiar with gaming? Saying things like "Ban" can be understood as 'hardcore' gamer speak".

In my view as a 60+ man who will use the computer to play a few types of games (which is far more simple than putting cards back into a deck) .

I would suggest taking a half hour of time and watch several adult men and women who play Minecraft make a living wage off of YouTube and Twitch. They can have audiences of up to 100,000 viewers watching live weekly, and on YouTube have over 5 million subscribers.

 

[JohnClay]

Of the approximate billion Christians, how many are familiar with gaming?

Yeah it seems to have a big audience - and I also think I'd appeal to some non-Christians who are interested in controversial parts of the Bible. Though for the assignment it is just a rough prototype.

Saying things like "Ban" can be understood as 'hardcore' gamer speak".

Good.

In my view as a 60+ man who will use the computer to play a few types of games (which is far more simple than putting cards back into a deck) .

BTW in the university subject our games were meant to be physical games like card or board games, but due to the virus the lecturer also allowed digital games.

I would suggest taking a half hour of time and watch several adult men and women who play Minecraft make a living wage off of YouTube and Twitch. They can have audiences of up to 100,000 viewers watching live weekly, and on YouTube have over 5 million subscribers.

Yeah I've seen heaps of Minecraft videos on Youtube.... I like to watch people play games.

 

[JohnClay]

That's awesome; what development platform are you using?

Scratch... it allows me to make prototypes incredibly fast - if they don't have scrolling screens - otherwise it takes longer. Here is the first game I made for the university assignment... the lecturer wasn't happy with the serious purpose (it wasn't fulfilling a need)
https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/385145653/

 

[Norbert L]

BTW in the university subject our games were meant to be physical games like card or board games, but due to the virus the lecturer also allowed digital games.

Naturally there can be a world of difference between sending an emoji and having to look other people straight in the eye.

 

[JohnClay]

I got a Christian to play test the game...

Was the game shocking? (explain) No. There was not enough gore and screams to make it shocking​

Well the aim of the assignment is to change the game so that it meets the player experience goal of being shocking. I was hoping that the premises alone would have been enough.

So it looks like it needs blood and blood-curdling screams....

The new version will be called Brutal Bible Blood Baths....

 

[Petros2015]

I'm not sure what you are going for here; most Christians are living in the New Testament, following Christ (or they should be). And while the Old Testament does have some interesting stories, most of the blood shed in the New Testament scriptures was Christ's, or later his followers (Peter ends crucified upside down I believe). I don't recall any massacres being called for from the point of his arrival forward (at least, not by him in the scriptures), and his death was quite brutal at the hands of humanity. Humans don't like it much when you tell them they are sick, it turns out, even if you happen to be a doctor, especially if the remedy involves any kind of humility or repentance. They can actually turn quite nasty.

Point is, I don't think you are going to be able to shock Christians with body counts from the Old Testament. Non christians or people on the fence, probably. But they've already kind of made up their minds. Christianity at the time was the opportunity of getting to know God an entirely new way for the Jews, and then later all of humanity.

I would point out though, that there was something shocking that happened, though it wasn't recorded in scripture. "You offspring of vipers," said John the Baptist. "Who warned you to flee from the coming destruction (wrath)"?

In Luke 20: 9-14

9 Then He proceeded to tell the people this parable: “A man planted a vineyard, rented it out to some tenants, and went away for a long time. 10 At harvest time, he sent a servant to the tenants to collect his share of the fruit of the vineyard. But the tenants beat the servant and sent him away empty-handed.

11 So he sent another servant, but they beat him and humiliated him, sending him away empty-handed.
12 Then he sent a third, but they wounded him and threw him out.
13 ‘What shall I do?’ asked the owner of the vineyard. ‘I will send my beloved son. Perhaps they will respect him.’
14 But when the tenants saw the son, they discussed it among themselves and said, ‘This is the heir. Let us kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.’ 15 So they threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.

What then will the owner of the vineyard do to them?

16 He will come and kill those tenants, and will give the vineyard to others.”
==

In AD 70, roughly 33 years after rejecting the Son and handing him over to be crucified, 3 days before the beginning of Pass Over, when the city was full, when the Jewish people celebrate God protecting their people from the Angel of Death, placing the blood of a slain lamb on the doorposts, the Romans sieged Jerusalem...

This time, there was no Pass Over.

Five hundred Jews were crucified each day. The Mount of Olives and the craggy hills around the city were so crowded with crucifixes that there was scarcely room for any more, nor trees to make them.
...
Now as soon as the army had no more people to slay or to plunder, because there remained none to be the objects of their fury (for they would not have spared any, had there remained any other work to be done), [Titus] Caesar gave orders that they should now demolish the entire city and Temple, but should leave as many of the towers standing as they were of the greatest eminence; that is, Phasaelus, and Hippicus, and Mariamne; and so much of the wall enclosed the city on the west side. This wall was spared, in order to afford a camp for such as were to lie in garrison [in the Upper City], as were the towers [the three forts] also spared, in order to demonstrate to posterity what kind of city it was, and how well fortified, which the Roman valor had subdued; but for all the rest of the wall [surrounding Jerusalem], it was so thoroughly laid even with the ground by those that dug it up to the foundation, that there was left nothing to make those that came thither believe it [Jerusalem] had ever been inhabited. This was the end which Jerusalem came to by the madness of those that were for innovations; a city otherwise of great magnificence, and of mighty fame among all mankind.[18]

delanceyplace.com 11/8/11 - five hundred jews were crucified each day
Siege of Jerusalem (70 CE) - Wikipedia

Food for thought.

 

[JohnClay]

I'm not sure what you are going for here;

See my opening post - it is for my university assignment which includes a 2000 word report about the theory behind the game and numerous play tests.

Serious purpose: to learn about some of the most shocking passages in the Old Testament.​

Target audience: open-minded people who want to learn about controversial parts in the Bible. Including people who are looking for problems in the Bible or want to test their faith.​

most Christians are living in the New Testament, following Christ (or they should be).

I just have a narrow focus.

And while the Old Testament does have some interesting stories, most of the blood shed in the New Testament scriptures was Christ's, or later his followers (Peter ends crucified upside down I believe). I don't recall any massacres being called for from the point of his arrival forward (at least, not by him in the scriptures),

That's why I'm singling out the Old Testament. And in each level you are a character that God seems to support and you have a lot of killing or mauling to do.

Point is, I don't think you are going to be able to shock Christians with body counts from the Old Testament.

Well I'm working on some changes and that Christian will hopefully do another play test. BTW I sent you a message in "Conversations"...

Non christians or people on the fence, probably.

Yep

 

[JohnClay]

BTW I was wondering what people thought about this....

When you use the super brutal mode cheat codes:

Were the stories shocking?​

a) Not at all

b) Yes

If you choose (b) the confirm screen exits

If you choose (a)

Why not?
​

a) God is a holy God
a) God is perfectly just and holy
a) ????

b) I'm a small child or psychopath.

if you choose (a) then the brutal mode begins

So if you're a Christian and choose "not at all" are there other option (a) that are better than my ideas?

 

[JohnClay]

BTW earlier today I was thinking of "Good Old Old Testament" and noticed it has been mentioned quite a few times on the internet. Also I am planning on turning this into a Godot game engine game.... And that is G.O.O.T! I just need to stick a D in the middle of it. I'm not sure if this is a coincidence or if this was inspired.... note that I also noticed that there is God in "Godot"....

 

[iluvatar5150]

Actually my lecturer thought the game was too ambitious. The focus is on the theory behind the game and making quick and dirty prototypes. Normally the games are meant to be physical games like card or board games, but due to the virus she allowed digital games. Note that "player experience goals" are supposed to be very focused like mine.

TBH, your professor probably shouldn’t have approved this subject- not because of the subject matter, but because your whole concept seems to miss the point of the exercise. Paper prototypes are for quickly iterating on game mechanics, but you’re not doing much of anything with game mechanics. You’re telling a story and trying to elicit an emotional response, which relies much less on game mechanics and much more on the successful execution of several disciplines’ worth of production. It’s not impossible to whip out a prototype of that sort of game in a couple weeks, but it’s much harder.

 

[JohnClay]

TBH, your professor probably shouldn’t have approved this subject- not because of the subject matter, but because your whole concept seems to miss the point of the exercise.

The point is to make a serious game. BTW she has a doctorate and she has made a big budget serious game so she should know, rather than some person on the forums who has only seen one screen shot of my game.

Paper prototypes are for quickly iterating on game mechanics, but you’re not doing much of anything with game mechanics.

In each level you've got to kill or maul a given number of people and/or animals. The either run for their lives, chase you or wander. When there are 1000 or 144,000 victims they only spawn about 50 at a time. If you injure the prophet Elijah you lose the level. I'm happy with the game mechanics (well a play tester didn't think it was fun)

You’re telling a story and trying to elicit an emotional response, which relies much less on game mechanics and much more on the successful execution of several disciplines’ worth of production. It’s not impossible to whip out a prototype of that sort of game in a couple weeks, but it’s much harder.

The other groups are just doing board games. BTW the things you actually get marks for are a 2000 word report, play testing reports and a presentation. As far as the emotional response goes, the play tester didn't find it shocking or overwhelming... so I've got to make it gory and add screams.

Note this is for a first semester subject and they haven't even taught us how to code or make graphics yet...

 

[iluvatar5150]

The point is to make a serious game.

Are you using that term correctly? Because a “serious game” is one designed for something other than entertainment. (e.g.education) What you’re designing doesn’t sound like that. Your game sounds like a regular game.

Serious game - Wikipedia

BTW she has a doctorate and she has made a big budget serious game so she should know, rather than some person on the forums who has only seen one screen shot of my game.

I’ve been making most of my living in the games industry for about 9 years and have shipped 3 base game titles with long-term metacritic ratings between 88-94 and somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 million units total across all sku’s.

In each level you've got to kill or maul a given number of people and/or animals. The either run for their lives, chase you or wander. When there are 1000 or 144,000 victims they only spawn about 50 at a time. If you injure the prophet Elijah you lose the level. I'm happy with the game mechanics (well a play tester didn't think it was fun)

What you’ve described sounds like it could be fun if there were some skill challenges, like in a shooting gallery. But otherwise, what’s the fun? Is this a skill game? A speed game? Is this sort of like a tower defense? Is there a challenge or are you just trying to shock people?

The other groups are just doing board games. BTW the things you actually get marks for are a 2000 word report, play testing reports and a presentation. As far as the emotional response goes, the play tester didn't find it shocking or overwhelming... so I've got to make it gory and add screams.

“Shocking” and “overwhelming” are hard - that’s the space that horror and survival games live in and they’re a ton of work and require a ton of fine tuning. It’s not just “gore and screams.”

Note this is for a first semester subject and they haven't even taught us how to code or make graphics yet...

Right, which is why you do stuff on paper first. You figure out the challenge and the rules and the balance with materials that allow you to iterate quickly without needing a bunch of other skills.

 

[JohnClay]

Are you using that term correctly? Because a “serious game” is one designed for something other than entertainment. (e.g.education)

Well it is part of a whole major called "Serious Game Design" and it includes many subjects beginning with SGD in the codes. Note it is only a tiny game yet it explores five Bible passages including saying what the Bible verses are. Most players would be learning something so it is educational.

What you’re designing doesn’t sound like that. Your game sounds like a regular game.

Check out my first post in this thread - it has a serious purpose, etc. The PXG is to shock and overwhelm the player. What regular game is like that?

I’ve been making most of my living in the games industry for about 9 years and have shipped 3 base game titles with long-term metacritic ratings between 88-94 and somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 million units total across all sku’s.

That shows you know how to make games that people enjoy and are impressed with - not necessarily the theory behind serious games.

What you’ve described sounds like it could be fun if there were some skill challenges, like in a shooting gallery. But otherwise, what’s the fun?

My lecturer said: "fun" is a subjective term any way.... I would focus on your pxg, rather than "fun".

Is this a skill game? A speed game? Is this sort of like a tower defense? Is there a challenge or are you just trying to shock people?

It's meant to put you in the shoes of characters that God approves of... and to be shocked at your actions. In the first level the 42 youths are running away from the two bears and it is a bit of a challenge to get them.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Check out my first post in this thread - it has a serious purpose, etc. The PXG is to shock and overwhelm the player. What regular game is like that?

It kind of depends on exactly what you mean, but lots of games have had shocking and/or overwhelming elements. Back in my youth, the Postal games sought to shock you with sadistic gore. Somewhat more recently, and I think more in line with what you’re going for, SpecOps The Line’s attempt at tackling Heart of Darkness had you incinerate a bunch of civilians with white phosphorus; COD had you shoot up an airport with terrorists; Bioshock gave you the option of killing toddlers to harvest bodily fluids; and Bioshock Infinite was loaded with racist imagery including a carnival game in which winning afforded you the opportunity to take the first crack at stoning an interracial couple for miscegeny.

For overwhelming- in addition to the ones I just listed, that’s kind of the bread and butter of the horror and survival genres. I would argue that the claustrophobia and fear of something like Dead Space or Alien is overwhelming. Ditto for the constant existential dread and low-grade panic in The Long Dark, Frostpunk, and This War of Mine.

It's meant to put you in the shoes of characters that God approves of... and to be shocked at your actions. In the first level the 42 youths are running away from the two bears and it is a bit of a challenge to get them.

Well, it definitely sounds like you’re shooting for the dark narrative theme a la SpecOps or Bioshock. Good luck with that. It’s not easy.