[MOVED] Are we in End Times and the Rapture?

[Swan7]

Pay attention to the season written about and spoken by Jesus Christ. Mankind have far too many theologies about "when", so just listen to the Holy Spirit.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Isaiah 26:19-21


So yes, it is a bodily resurrection, and it is at the coming of Christ, but it is also being taken to a place of safety from God's wrath.
When does God's wrath begin?
2 parallels of it
Revelation 6:17
Revelation 14:19-20
both views are right after Jesus comes in the clouds.

Are we taken out of the world when God's purgation of the world occurs? Scripture certainly never says this. Are we preserved through it? This would seem to be what Scripture does say. Not that we don't face judgment, because we do. Indeed, when Christ comes, He comes in judgment, to judge both the living and the dead; and all must stand before Him.

The purgation of the world is about the consummation of this fallen and present age. As St. Peter says,

"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.

Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn! But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells." - 2 Peter 3:10-13

God brings the fire of judgment, for what reason? To purify, it is a purgation. The fire of God's judgment in which all the wicked works shall be burned, and out of which comes the renewal of all things (c.f. Acts of the Apostles 3:21). And then there is new heavens and new earth, with the former things gone and behold, the new.

We shall all pass through the fire of God's judgment, the righteous for life everlasting and the wicked to condemnation.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Jamdoc]

The Great Commission will be fulfilled. Every single person whom Jesus died for will be saved before he returns and ends this world.

the Angel is spreading the gospel during the great tribulations, the mark of the beast, etc is going on.

 

[Jamdoc]

Are we taken out of the world when God's purgation of the world occurs? Scripture certainly never says this. Are we preserved through it? This would seem to be what Scripture does say. Not that we don't face judgment, because we do. Indeed, when Christ comes, He comes in judgment, to judge both the living and the dead; and all must stand before Him.

The purgation of the world is about the consummation of this fallen and present age. As St. Peter says,

"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.

Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn! But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells." - 2 Peter 3:10-13

God brings the fire of judgment, for what reason? To purify, it is a purgation. The fire of God's judgment in which all the wicked works shall be burned, and out of which comes the renewal of all things (c.f. Acts of the Apostles 3:21). And then there is new heavens and new earth, with the former things gone and behold, the new.

We shall all pass through the fire of God's judgment, the righteous for life everlasting and the wicked to condemnation.

-CryptoLutheran

1 Thessalonians 5:9

 

[ViaCrucis]

1 Thessalonians 5:9

Exactly. We are being saved, and we shall be saved on that final day. Our salvation is from God who shall keep us and preserve us through to the end, and to our glorious and eternal rest in the Age to Come.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Jamdoc]

Exactly. We are being saved, and we shall be saved on that final day. Our salvation is from God who shall keep us and preserve us through to the end, and to our glorious and eternal rest in the Age to Come.

-CryptoLutheran

That's still appointing us to the wrath of God, the trumpets and vials, and just preserving us through it.
It's still putting you through the wrath.
We're to be hidden from the indignation in the Isaiah passage I quoted.
when the indignation is all over the world, where are you hidden away?
We're talking about asteroid impacts, extreme heat, 60 pound hailstones, massive unprecedented earthquakes, all the water turning to blood
Only 144k are sealed to protect them while on earth.

 

[ViaCrucis]

That's still appointing us to the wrath of God, the trumpets and vials, and just preserving us through it.
It's still putting you through the wrath.
We're to be hidden from the indignation in the Isaiah passage I quoted.
when the indignation is all over the world, where are you hidden away?
We're talking about asteroid impacts, extreme heat, 60 pound hailstones, massive unprecedented earthquakes, all the water turning to blood
Only 144k are sealed to protect them while on earth.

There's a lot to unpack. For one, I disagree with whatever reasoning you are using to say that God keeping us through judgment is somehow us experiencing God's wrath, that just doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. For another, I don't take the bowls and vials of the Apocalypse as literal, neither do I believe that this is talking about "the end times". And thirdly, I don't view the 144,000 as a literal numbered group of individuals, but as symbolically speaking of all who belong to God, the seal or mark here is the same that the Apostle speaks of in Ephesians 1:13, we've been sealed by the Holy Spirit in the Gospel. We belong to Christ, we have by our baptism become Christ's, we are marked, sealed by God--as the Apostle says in Galatians, all who have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ (Galatians 3:27).

It's important to understand, my disagreements with Dispensationalism isn't superficial, it's not about mere details. I whole-heartedly reject Dispensationalism. I reject the entire heremeneutical model. I reject the entire theological system. Because I subscribe to the historic, traditional teaching of the Christian Church--that which has been believed since the beginning. The entire system of Dispensational thought is false doctrine.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Jamdoc]

There's a lot to unpack. For one, I disagree with whatever reasoning you are using to say that God keeping us through judgment is somehow us experiencing God's wrath, that just doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. For another, I don't take the bowls and vials of the Apocalypse as literal, neither do I believe that this is talking about "the end times". And thirdly, I don't view the 144,000 as a literal numbered group of individuals, but as symbolically speaking of all who belong to God, the seal or mark here is the same that the Apostle speaks of in Ephesians 1:13, we've been sealed by the Holy Spirit in the Gospel. We belong to Christ, we have by our baptism become Christ's, we are marked, sealed by God--as the Apostle says in Galatians, all who have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ (Galatians 3:27).

It's important to understand, my disagreements with Dispensationalism isn't superficial, it's not about mere details. I whole-heartedly reject Dispensationalism. I reject the entire heremeneutical model. I reject the entire theological system. Because I subscribe to the historic, traditional teaching of the Christian Church--that which has been believed since the beginning. The entire system of Dispensational thought is false doctrine.

-CryptoLutheran

Who said anything about dispensationalism? I don't buy into dispensationalism at all.

In Isaiah it's talking about the wrath of God, and the resurrection that happens before it.
You want to say that's not the end times? Isaiah himself is describing his own self being resurrected, after having been dead.
and still being on earth, whether we're the direct target of God's wrath or not, we'd be impacted by it.
All the water is blood, we still have to drink.
There's dust in the air blocking out the sun from asteroid impact, and if you're on the coast, tsunamis are a threat, and plenty of Christians have been killed by tsunamis in the past.
Not to mention, what kind of psychological impact you'd witness from these terrible events. Is it profitable for us to witness a time when people are put through so much pain that they gnaw their tongues and try to kill themselves but always fail?

 

[ViaCrucis]

Who said anything about dispensationalism? I don't buy into dispensationalism at all.

In Isaiah it's talking about the wrath of God, and the resurrection that happens before it.
You want to say that's not the end times? Isaiah himself is describing his own self being resurrected, after having been dead.

What I said was that I don't take what is written in the Apocalypse as being about the "end times"

and still being on earth, whether we're the direct target of God's wrath or not, we'd be impacted by it.
All the water is blood, we still have to drink.
There's dust in the air blocking out the sun from asteroid impact, and if you're on the coast, tsunamis are a threat, and plenty of Christians have been killed by tsunamis in the past.
Not to mention, what kind of psychological impact you'd witness from these terrible events. Is it profitable for us to witness a time when people are put through so much pain that they gnaw their tongues and try to kill themselves but always fail?

And, again, I don't take the Apocalypse literally. I don't believe a literal star is going to hit the earth, I don't think the waters are going to literally turn to blood, I don't believe a bottomless pit will open and human-faced locust monsters will swarm out of the abyss, I don't believe there's going to be a literal prostitute riding a multi-headed monster.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Jamdoc]

What I said was that I don't take what is written in the Apocalypse as being about the "end times"



And, again, I don't take the Apocalypse literally. I don't believe a literal star is going to hit the earth, I don't think the waters are going to literally turn to blood, I don't believe a bottomless pit will open and human-faced locust monsters will swarm out of the abyss, I don't believe there's going to be a literal prostitute riding a multi-headed monster.

-CryptoLutheran

Some things are obviously symbols, and some things.. can be manifested in perfectly logical ways. A star falling to earth? No. An asteroid impact? Yes.
I believe that John witnessed the earth being hit by an asteroid, maybe even multiple impact events. I believe that that was the manifestation of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. The evidence is there physically that a bolide airburst caused such intense heat that it basically vaporized a bronze age civilization in the area, and when you have a sulfur containing asteroid, that airbursts, the heat vaporizes things, and then it condenses in the upper atmosphere, and it rains down as hail and burning sulfur as it ignites falling through the atmosphere. They have found sulfur spheroids in the area.
The angel hurling the flaming censor to the earth, and the first trumpet judgement sound like an impact event and resulting fallout of burning sulfur and hail.
There's the asteroid Apophis which is predicted to miss us in 2029, but it has a chance of passing through a gravity well that would make it hit us 7 years later in 2036.
It's a small chance, but that chance says, yes, something like that can happen. Apophis is big enough to cause very severe damage to the planet, it'd be a disaster.

 

[timothyu]

I don't believe there's going to be a literal prostitute riding a multi-headed monster.

??

 

[Randy777]

are there anymore signs that need to be fulfilled

I would state Rev 11 is a sign that can't be mistaken. 1260 days as I read.

 

[chad kincham]

2 Thessalonians 2

1 ¶ Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 ¶ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

There more signs than this, but most ideologies using scripture to say "this is it" do not account for these signs - thus are easily dismissed.

We are instructed to not be easily shaken in your mind, or troubled in your heart because someone says it is the end, and that the second coming of Jesus Christ is upon us. This is because, these things happen with signs preceding.

So watch, and pray, and prepare.

That’s actually a mid trib rapture verse.

Paul said the day of the Lord, and our being gathered together to be with Jesus, won’t occur until the son of perdition reveals himself by stepping into the temple and stops the sacrifice and claims to be God.

Daniel puts that event in the middle of the 70th week, which is mid tribulation.

Shalom.

 

[chad kincham]

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

L
Men won’t be able to reach all the countries, though we are supposed to try.

That’s why an angel will preach the gospel at some point in time, before the end of the age occurs, he can reach areas closed to the gospel.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

That’s actually a mid trib rapture verse.

Paul said the day of the Lord, and our being gathered together to be with Jesus, won’t occur until the son of perdition reveals himself by stepping into the temple and stops the sacrifice and claims to be God.

Daniel puts that event in the middle of the 70th week, which is mid tribulation.

Shalom.

There's no trib - that's a fib.