Motivation in Morality

[Clare73]

I agree! But that conscience evolves over time, and is varies from culture to culture. A couple hundred years ago, chattel slavery (owning another person as property) was considered perfectly reasonable and moral, while homosexuality was considered sick and evil by the most moral of us; now homosexuality is seen as perfectly normal, while slavery is considered is seen as something only a sick person would condone.

And I say they are going against the light of their own conscience until they have seared it.

 

[Estrid]

No; all moral concepts are subjective; none objective.

I suppose I could argue but then it comes down to
what is objective mean and I dwanu go there.

 

[Ken-1122]

And I say they are going against the light of their own conscience until they have seared it.

Why would you assume people are going against their own conscience? The reality is; what our conscience dictates today is different than what it dictated 100 years ago, and is different from what it will dictate 100 years from now. That's how our evolution works.

 

[Ken-1122]

I suppose I could argue but then it comes down to
what is objective mean and I dwanu go there.

As you can see from the link, that which is objective can be demonstrated as true. Quite simple really.
https://www.diffen.com/difference/Objective_vs_Subjective

 

[Estrid]

As you can see from the link, that which is objective can be demonstrated as true. Quite simple really.
https://www.diffen.com/difference/Objective_vs_Subjective

Ok, i know that.

I meant as applied to morality.

 

[Estrid]

Why would you assume people are going against their own conscience? The reality is; what our conscience dictates today is different than what it dictated 100 years ago, and is different from what it will dictate 100 years from now. That's how our evolution works.

Example of such, and something that doesnt change?

 

[Clare73]

Why would you assume people are going against their own conscience? The reality is; what our conscience dictates today is different than what it dictated 100 years ago, and is different from what it will dictate 100 years from now. That's how our evolution works.

Not in agreement with your notion of reality.

Not sure you can train your conscience to think murder is okay, or theft from your neighbor is okay, or cheating on your wife is okay, or. . .
unless you sear it.

 

[Estrid]

Not in agreement with your notion of reality.

Not sure you can train your conscience to think murder is okay, or theft from your neighbor is okay, or cheating on your wife is okay, or. . .

Those things all have to do with definitions and circumstances.

 

[Clare73]

Those things all have to do with definitions and circumstances.

Baloney. . .killing my neighbor because it is convenient is not a matter of "definition."

And cheating (by definition = dishonest) on my wife is not a matter of "circumstances."

 

[Ken-1122]

Ok, i know that.

I meant as applied to morality.

My point is, it doesn’t apply to morality because morality is based on your thoughts and beliefs; not measurable and demonstrable facts.

Example of such, and something that doesnt change?

My point is that morality is always changing. I can’t think of any moral issue that does not evolve/change, can you?

 

[Ken-1122]

Not in agreement with your notion of reality.

Not sure you can train your conscience to think murder is okay,

All you gotta do is change the definition of murder to something you find acceptable. Is it murder to kill someone who is breaking into your house? How about if you fear they are gonna kill you?

or theft from your neighbor is okay,

Is taking from the rich to give to the poor theft? What about the progressive tax system; is that theft?

or cheating on your wife is okay, or.....

How about if she cheats on you? How about if she doesn't give you sex, or gains weight, or you guys are already separated, or......

unless you sear it.

What does it mean to sear something?

 

[Estrid]

Baloney. . .killing my neighbor because it is convenient is not a matter of "definition."

And cheating (by definition = dishonest) on my wife is not a matter of "circumstances."

I could so easily propose realistic situations that blur your
bright line distinctions into nothingness, but ive found that
those who go for god- given moral absolutes, black / white,
totally binary distinctions are anchored to thevstsnce no matter
how absurd it gets. In the thought that this is how you see things,
I will leave you to it.

 

[Ken-1122]

Not in agreement with your notion of reality.

Not sure you can train your conscience to think murder is okay, or theft from your neighbor is okay, or cheating on your wife is okay, or. . .
unless you sear it.

That's not what I said. I said what is considered acceptable today is different than what people considered acceptable 100 years ago, and will be different 100 years from now.

 

[Estrid]

That's not what I said. I said what is considered acceptable today is different than what people considered acceptable 100 years ago, and will be different 100 years from now.

Way different.

Many common practices of the past would be considered criminal child abuse now

 

[Ken-1122]

Way different.

Many common practices of the past would be considered criminal child abuse now

So you agree with my notion of reality?

 

[Estrid]

So you agree with my notion of reality?

I didnt know we were discussing "reality"

 

[Ken-1122]

I didnt know we were discussing "reality"

My bad. On post #547 someone else said they disagreed with my notion of reality and explained why; so when you entered the conversation, I mistakenly responded to you as if I were discussing with the other person.

 

[Clare73]

All you gotta do is change the definition of murder
to something you find acceptable. Is it murder to kill someone who is breaking into your house? How about if you fear they are gonna kill you?
Is taking from the rich to give to the poor theft?

What about the progressive tax system; is that theft?

No more so than any other taxes.

How about if she cheats on you? How about if she doesn't give you sex, or gains weight, or you guys are already separated, or......

I note all the justification required to make these acceptable.
Skip the justifying, and you'll have access to your conscience, instead of searing it, which consceince will tell you which is right and which is wrong.

What does it mean to sear something?

I'll let you look that up.

 

[Clare73]

Not in agreement with your notion of reality.

Not sure you can train your conscience to think murder is okay, or theft from your neighbor is okay, or cheating on your wife is okay, or. . .
unless you sear it.

That's not what I said. I said what is considered acceptable today is different than what people considered acceptable 100 years ago, and will be different 100 years from now.

And that is what I addressed.

 

[Ken-1122]

No more so than any other taxes.

So you understand how one can train their conscious to think theft is okay?

I note all the justification required to make these acceptable.

And in doing so, you understand how one can train their conscious think murder and adultery are okay?