"mother" Teresa - an Agnostic, or Even Athiest...

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I would sure never wish to say anything negative regarding a person that had such good works.

Those have been questioned, tested, and may not be at all good. Contrary to a lot of public opinion. ...and perhaps a lot of bad resulted also - again contrary to the opinions of perhaps billions of people...
THUS, test everything and research with constant prayer .....

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

It's a sin to talk negatively regarding other believers.

See in Scripture the truth.

Public opinion is not a good guide, no, not at all.

 

[SwordmanJr]

I'm not Catholic but, I would sure never wish to say anything negative regarding a person that had such good works.

We all waiver in and out, what's important is I'm sure she will be greeting us in heaven.

It's a sin to talk negatively regarding other believers.
M-Bob

I see. So you too are riding that huge band wagon of people who consider themselves qualified to judge her as being in Heaven? Well, I will leave that judgement to the Lord, who alone is sitting on His throne without having picked you up to seat you beside Him as a co-judge with Him.

I thank God for that.....

Jr

 

[SwordmanJr]

What has your response to my post got to do with the question i asked in my post?

I can ask you the same question. What does Job's whining have to do with the perfect words of Christ Jesus on the cross? You're trying to draw a line of comparative dialogue between the created and the Creator, as if there is some way of comparing the two.

No thanks. I'm not going to play your silly game.

Jr

 

[Lost4words]

Mothere Teresa suffered years and years fighting the devil.

It was a cross she bore daily.

He tried all ways to pull her away from God.

She never let the devil win!

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Mothere Teresa suffered years and years fighting the devil.
It was a cross she bore daily.
He tried all ways to pull her away from God.
She never let the devil win!

Rings a bell with me.
Actually many that I know.

We all need to try our best to
finish the good race.

M-Bob

 

[SwordmanJr]

Mothere Teresa suffered years and years fighting the devil.

It was a cross she bore daily.

He tried all ways to pull her away from God.

She never let the devil win!

And yet she said, "There is no God in me." What else can be said without you becoming her judge?

Jr

 

[coffee4u]

Excerpts from her private writings and correspondence recorded in Come Be My Light

"Darkness is such that I really do not see – neither with my mind nor with my reason. – The place of God in my soul is blank. – There is no God in me. – When the pain of longing is so great – I just long & long for God – and then it is that I feel – He does not want me – He is not there…"

The REAL Jesus said:

[Mat 28:20 KJV] 20 "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen."

Folks, that was not a promise, it was a statement of fact that was/is more real than declaring that the sun rises in the East and sets in the West. That woman was declared a "saint" 19 years after her death, and the decision was made faster than for any other "sainted" dead person.

"Do not think that my spiritual life is strewn with roses – that is the flower which I hardly ever find on my way. Quite the contrary, I have more often as my companion ‘darkness’. And when the night becomes very thick – and it seems to me as if I must end up in hell – then I simply offer myself to Jesus. If He wants me to go there – I am ready – but only under the condition that it really makes him happy."

Jesus said many will say to Him:

[Mat 7:21-23 KJV] 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

What jesus did she believe in. The Jesus we read about in the Bible would never send one of His true followers to Hell, so I'm left wondering what jesus this woman followed that he would be happier if she were in Hell?

It's pretty much granted that some will defend Teresa's dark system of belief as normal for someone who deals with the suffering she encountered daily. You know, that simply doesn't match up with the Jesus of the Bible. The power of God is so much greater than all the suffering in the world heaped up into one spot on this earth. Good works will never get anyone into Heaven, which is made clear in the word of God.

Some are bound to defend her, even to the extent of explaining her words off into some other meaning not at all similar to the very words she wrote. Some might even play on the "translation errors" defense of her words, but in the end, she can be seen to have given in to the enemy of her soul to be convinced that there is emptiness where only God can fill the void. That has every appearance of a self-indictment that no amount of smearing of benevolent salve can ever adequately cover over for the festering wound that it is. The flow of puss is too apparent to ignore and so easily explain away.

So, who believes they can effectively explain away her own words into a meaning what they do not say within the confines of the clear language they speak? Is it all allegorical? Is it merely symbolic what she said? Was it only human feelings, and therefore not her speaking to the spiritual depths of her genuine beliefs at the core of her soul? Are we now judges qualified to reinterpret her words, as if we have shoved Christ off His Throne, only to sit there ourselves, duly empowered to render the meaning of Teresa's words into something they don't clearly portray?

Thoughts?

Jr

While I might disagree with the Catholic church's doctrine and their idea of saints, it is wrong to judge a person who is not here to defend herself. Taking some lines out of context means nothing as we have no way to know when that was written. Only she and God know where she was in her spiritual walk when she died and that is how it should stay instead of speculation.

 

[brinny]

brinny said: ↑
Was Jesus "whining" from the cross?

Your response:

Fortunately, Job was/is not Jesus. Job too needed a savior just like all the rest of us.

Jr

brinny said: ↑
What has your response to my post got to do with the question i asked in my post?

I can ask you the same question. What does Job's whining have to do with the perfect words of Christ Jesus on the cross? You're trying to draw a line of comparative dialogue between the created and the Creator, as if there is some way of comparing the two.

No thanks. I'm not going to play your silly game.

Jr

You posted that Job was "whining". He was suffering inexplicably, and crying out to God. He was not "whining". Please list how Job was suffering and in excruciating detail, all the while not knowing why it was happening. (By the way, it had nothing to do with Job). He did not know why he was suffering through the loss of all of his children killed all at once, and then slam after slam, and then his wife comes to him as he's sitting on a dung hill covered with sores on every inch of his body with worms in them, and she tells him to stop being a man of integrity, to curse God, and to die already.

I asked you if Jesus was "whining" as He hung on the cross when He cried out "My God my God why hast Thou forsaken me?!"

I wasn't saying anything about Job not needing a Savior. That's why i asked you what your response had to do with my question that i asked.

Each of my posts logically flow from the point of this thread and that is that ALL of God's people suffer in one way or another, some more than others. The reason that we suffer and SURVIVE that suffering is to empathize with others suffering. God has equipped us to minister to, and encourage and pray for them.

The bottom line, is that we are to extend the same grace, tender mercies, and loving kindness to those suffering and discouraged and crushed in spirit that God Himself extended to us in our own spirit-crushing chapters in our lives.

 

[Lady Donna Marie]

[QUOTE="brinny,

The bottom line, is that we are to extend the same grace, tender mercies, and loving kindness to those suffering and discouraged and crushed in spirit that God Himself extended to us in our own spirit-crushing chapters in our lives.

Amen!

 

[SwordmanJr]

The bottom line, is that we are to extend the same grace, tender mercies, and loving kindness to those suffering and discouraged and crushed in spirit that God Himself extended to us in our own spirit-crushing chapters in our lives.

brinny, it appears that the main difference in your perspective versus mine is AFTER Job's suffering and losses. I agree it was crushing to have some inferior woman for a wife who tells you to curse God and die, and for one's children to be slaughtered. However, after all was said and done, and Job came face to face with God, being told that he WILL answer God's questions, he too could look back at his self-righteous mindset, thinking that he had done nothing wrong to deserve what happened, and never admitting in it all that we ALL deserve death for our sin....yeah, he too possibly looked back at his words of WHINING, and realized he was wrong. He learned a valualbe lesson that we ALL can take from with a richness that drives me to deeper and more profound praise of the Lord. It's humbling.

So, you can try to be as logical as you want, dude, and tout how right you are before the eyes of all others here.

Me? I'm a liar and a thief in relation to the perfection of Jesus crying out to the Father as to why He was forsaken, for He is the One who was demanding of Job the measures of the heavens, and the creative power over the leviathan. So, I hope you don't mind my not being awe-inspired to have received your attention about anything. You're just a fallen human being like all the rest of us. I may not measure up or down to the religious standards you prefer for yourself, being human myself, but I know what the Spirit of the Lord has shown to me concerning Job, all in accordance with 1 John 2:27. Compassion is indeed a good thing, but seeing things from beginning to end for what they are, that too is important.

So, I encourage you to walk life's paths the Spirit leads you along, as I will do for my life in Him. I do not deign to think that your not walking the same life path as myself is a problem. That is the height of arrogance on anyone's part.

John 21:23 "Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?"

Jr

 

[brinny]

brinny, it appears that the main difference in your perspective versus mine is AFTER Job's suffering and losses. I agree it was crushing to have some inferior woman for a wife who tells you to curse God and die, and for one's children to be slaughtered. However, after all was said and done, and Job came face to face with God, being told that he WILL answer God's questions, he too could look back at his self-righteous mindset, thinking that he had done nothing wrong to deserve what happened, and never admitting in it all that we ALL deserve death for our sin....yeah, he too possibly looked back at his words of WHINING, and realized he was wrong. He learned a valualbe lesson that we ALL can take from with a richness that drives me to deeper and more profound praise of the Lord. It's humbling.

So, you can try to be as logical as you want, dude, and tout how right you are before the eyes of all others here.

Me? I'm a liar and a thief in relation to the perfection of Jesus crying out to the Father as to why He was forsaken, for He is the One who was demanding of Job the measures of the heavens, and the creative power over the leviathan. So, I hope you don't mind my not being awe-inspired to have received your attention about anything. You're just a fallen human being like all the rest of us. I may not measure up or down to the religious standards you prefer for yourself, being human myself, but I know what the Spirit of the Lord has shown to me concerning Job, all in accordance with 1 John 2:27. Compassion is indeed a good thing, but seeing things from beginning to end for what they are, that too is important.

So, I encourage you to walk life's paths the Spirit leads you along, as I will do for my life in Him. I do not deign to think that your not walking the same life path as myself is a problem. That is the height of arrogance on anyone's part.

John 21:23 "Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?"

Jr

brinny, it appears that the main difference in your perspective versus mine is AFTER Job's suffering and losses. I agree it was crushing to have some inferior woman for a wife who tells you to curse God and die, and for one's children to be slaughtered.

his self-righteous mindset, thinking that he had done nothing wrong to deserve what happened,

Job was not nor was he ever "self-righteous". What was happening to him had NOTHING To do with Job. He was not being "punished" nor "corrected" by God. Job was unaware of the conversations that had been exchanged between God and Satan, and remained unaware of it all throughout his inexplicable sorrow, grief, and suffering.

"Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face." ~Job 1:9-11

After he heard of the tragic and instantaneous deaths of ALL of his children, what did he do?

"While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house: And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped, And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord." ~Job 1:18-21

He WORSHIPED GOD and BLESSED God's name.

And even when his wife told him to give up being a man of integrity, and to just curse God and die already, he didn't. He NEVER EVER Cursed God throughout all of it. Satan lost this one. God's beloved servant Job did NOT curse God. THIS was what Satan was counting on. In the conversation that God had with Satan unbeknownst to job, Satan had told God that Job "only" honored God because of the blessings that He had poured on to Job and because of the "hedge of protection" that God had placed around Job, etc. Satan told God that if these would be removed, that Job's "real feelings" for God would come forth and thus he would "curse God" cause he never loved God in the first place. In essence Satan was stating that NO ONE loved God in their heart. This leads to why Job was brought up in the conversation. The "key" to Job and "who" he was, according to God, is in the very first verse of the book of Job.

The bottom line is, that Job, in all of his suffering, was not "whining". He was crying out to the God that he DID love and "fear", Who appeared to be "absent" in the midst of ALL of this. In the very first verse of Job is the key to why Job was NOT nor HAD he been "self-righteous".

"There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil." ~Job 1:1

Self-righteousness is "sin". So is "whining".

Job was not "whining". He was pouring out the depths of his crushed soul.

So was Mother Teresa.

So was Jesus.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Job was not nor was he ever "self-righteous". What was happening to him had NOTHING To do with Job. He was not being "punished" by God. Job was unaware of the conversation that had been exchanged between God and Satan, and remained unaware of it all throughout his inexplicable sorrow, grief, and suffering.

And even when his wife told him to give up being a man of integrity, and to just curse god and die already, he didn't. He NEVER EVER Cursed God throughout all of it. Satan lost this one. God's beloved servant Job did NOT curse God. THIS was what Satan was counting on. In the conversation that God had with Satan unbeknownst to job, Satan had told God that Job "only" honored God because of the blessings that He had poured on to Job and because of the "hedge of protection" that God had placed around Job, etc. Satan told God that if these would be removed, that Job's "real feelings" for God would come forth and thus he would "curse God" cause he never loved God in the first place. In essence Satan was stating that NO ONE loved God in their heart. This leads to why Job was brought up in the conversation. The "key" to Job and "who" he was, according to God, is in the very first verse of the book of Job.

The bottom line is, that Job, in all of his suffering, was not "whining". He was crying out to the God that he DID love and "fear", Who appeared to be "absent" in the midst of ALL of this. In the very first verse of Job is the key to why Job was NOT nor HAD he been "self-righteous".

"There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil." ~Job 1:1

Self-righteousness is "sin". So is "whining".

Job was not "whining". He was pouring out the depths of his crushed soul.

So was Mother Teresa.

So was Jesus.

Nice explanation brinny of the story of Job.
M-Bob

 

[brinny]

Nice explanation brinny of the story of Job.
M-Bob

Thank you. It was one of the most difficult and agonizing books i've ever read.

 

[Lady Donna Marie]

[QUOTE="brinny, post:

Very well said and true, Brinny. Thanks for the explantation. Hopefully, there'll be ears to hear it for those that struggle with it.

 

[Lady Donna Marie]

Thank you. It was one of the most difficult and agonizing books i've ever read.

I've read about Saint Eustathius and his family and that was tear jerking/quite painful to read.

 

[Norbert L]

Some are bound to defend her, even to the extent of explaining her words off into some other meaning not at all similar to the very words she wrote.

This is plainly what happens with historical figures because they aren't around to tell us that there words had some other meaning not at all similar to the very words we are using today to describe their intentions.

 

[brinny]

[QUOTE="brinny, post:

Very well said and true, Brinny. Thanks for the explantation. Hopefully, there'll be ears to hear it for those that struggle with it.

Thank you. May we move as the Good Samaritan did and moreso when a brother or sister in Christ is in the throes of grief and sorrow. We've all been there. That was how God prepared us to minister to others going through deep grief and sorrow of their crushed soul,

 

[brinny]

I've read about Saint Eustathius and his family and that was tear jerking/quite painful to read.

i haven't read it. It sounds heart-wrenching.

 

[MrsFoundit]

Who here can say for sure that her words can be classified as something other than a lack of faith, as her own words give indication. Everybody's an authority, but nobody has anything derived from a qualified analyst who actually spent time with her to dig deep into her thoughts and beliefs in order to glean something akin to the absolute truth.

Jesus Christ can do all the analysing, and Jesus is qualified. You are not.

Paul revealed the mystery of the Gospel to us all when he said, "Christ in you, the hope of glory." Then I read Teresa's words where she says, "There is no God in me." What's astounding is how many people seem to know better than Teresa that the God void in her was NOT empty, almost as if her adherents have the powers of Deity. They cast her words off into some other realm of ethereal interpretational rules that aren't even written down so far as I can tell, but are rather subjective to feelings and emotions.

Word salad.