Most beautiful month in the year(Ramadan).....

[TG123]

No my origianl claim was - about Muslims becoming moral police.

62 arrested for Indonesian Ramadan bar-room blitz - Times LIVE
62 arrested for Indonesian Ramadan bar-room blitz
Sapa-AFP | 30 July, 2012 07:25

Indonesian police have arrested 62 people, most of them minors, involved in attacking a bar in south Jakarta for serving alcohol during Ramadan.

A group of 150 youths -- some as young as 13 and carrying swords and golf clubs -- raided the De Most bar late Saturday, smashing bottles of alcoholic drinks and damaging the property, said Hermawan, chief detective for South Jakarta police.

"Of the 62 arrested most are minors, and some...were armed with Samurai swords, sickles and golf clubs," said Hermawan, who like many Indonesians goes by one name.

"They shattered the windows and door and smashed bottles, saying they wanted all bars shut to ensure the month of Ramadan is not tainted," he added.

Twenty-three people face charges of damaging property while four are additionally charged with carrying sharp weapons.

The group called itself the Prophet's Defenders Council, Hermawan said.
"It is usual for me and my followers to raid sinful places during Ramadan," the group's alleged leader, 33-year-old Habib Bahar was quoted as saying by the Kompas.com news website after the arrests.

"They committed sins there. They get drunk so action must be taken," said Bahar, who was also arrested.

In previous years Islamic groups have raided places serving alcohol, but Saturday's attack was the first this year since the fasting month of Ramadan officially began on July 21.

Authorities have ordered bars and nightclubs to close during the holy month, but the ban is not strictly enforced.

Ninety percent of Indonesia's population of 240 million identify themselves as Muslim but the vast majority practise a moderate form of Islam.
　
　
11 nabbed for not fasting — Daud – BorneoPost Online | Borneo , Malaysia, Sarawak Daily News | Largest English Daily In Borneo
11 nabbed for not fasting — Daud
Posted on July 30, 2012, Monday

MIRI: Eleven Muslims have thus far been nabbed by the Sarawak Islamic Religious Department (Jais) for not fasting during the month of Ramadan which started on July 21, said Assistant Minister in the Chief Ministers Department Datuk Daud Abdul Rahman on Saturday.

Out of the 11 caught, four were from Kota Samarahan, three each from Kuching and Miri, and one from Mukah.

Daud told reporters after presenting assistance to 200 children of Hamidah Yakub Orphanage Complex that the 11 would be charged in court.

For first offenders, they could be fined up to RM1,000 or imprisoned up to six months or both. For subsequent offences, the maximum fine is RM2,000 or a maximum jail term of one year.

The arrests were made not to embarrass the individuals, but to let them know that they should respect the month of Ramadan. They should have been practising their duties as a Muslim, to fast during this Holy month, and not to eat at open food premises," said Daud.

He cautioned that Jais would continue to keep a hawk eye on food premises throughout the state to ensure all Muslims toe the line.

True, though you did follow up that sentence saying they become more violent towards other Muslims. The events in both article are disturbing, both the vigilante youth attacks and the government crackdown. That is not to say these things are ordered by Islam however, just as murderous killings of Jews during Good Friday by mobs of churchgoers in some European countries were not ordered by Jesus or Christianity.

 

[dazed]

True, though you did follow up that sentence saying they become more violent towards other Muslims. The events in both article are disturbing, both the vigilante youth attacks and the government crackdown. That is not to say these things are ordered by Islam however, just as murderous killings of Jews during Good Friday by mobs of churchgoers in some European countries were not ordered by Jesus or Christianity.

So are you firing off a strongly worded letter to Jais demanding proof in the Koran and hadiths to back up its crackdown? My "wrong" information/analysis only hurts Muslims' little feeling but Jais can seriously hurt someone. Better stop it before some pious Muslims go overboard.

When was the last time Jews got murdered by European Christians during Easter? It's a bit like my room mate. His standard response every time he got caught wetting his bed was "You wetted your bed too!" My response was always the same. I stop wetting my bed when I was three!!! You are 23 year old so when will you stop wetting your bed?

 

[LoAmmi]

When was the last time Jews got murdered by European Christians during Easter? It's a bit like my room mate. His standard response every time he got caught wetting his bed was "You wetted your bed too!" My response was always the same. I stop wetting my bed when I was three!!! You are 23 year old so when will you stop wetting your bed?

So, if we say Islam was founded around 600, and Christianity was founded somewhere around.. let's just say 100 to make it an even number.

500 years ago, some Christians were still killing Jews at Easter. Perhaps some more time to mature is needed.

 

[TG123]

So are you firing off a strongly worded letter to Jais demanding proof in the Koran and hadiths to back up its crackdown? My "wrong" information/analysis only hurts Muslims' little feeling but Jais can seriously hurt someone. Better stop it before some pious Muslims go overboard.

Do you know their mailing address? Provide it and I will gladly write to them.

When was the last time Jews got murdered by European Christians during Easter?

The last one I am aware of took place in 1903.

Kishinev pogrom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am sure there are more recent cases as well.

When was the last time a non-Buddhist group launched a campaign of ethnic cleansing against Sri Lanka's Tamils?

It's a bit like my room mate. His standard response every time he got caught wetting his bed was "You wetted your bed too!" My response was always the same. I stop wetting my bed when I was three!!! You are 23 year old so when will you stop wetting your bed?

Cute.

 

[TG123]

So, if we say Islam was founded around 600, and Christianity was founded somewhere around.. let's just say 100 to make it an even number.

500 years ago, some Christians were still killing Jews at Easter. Perhaps some more time to mature is needed.

Actually, it would be more like around the 30s AD, that is when Jesus died and resurrected.

The most recent (to my knowledge) Easter pogrom happened in 1903, some 109 years ago.


Your people have suffered horrific things, and the people who committed such atrocities called themselves Christians and surely believed themselves to be, but were anything but.

 

[LoAmmi]

Actually, it would be more like around the 30s AD, that is when Jesus died and resurrected.

Yes, but 500 is a nice tidy number

 

[LoAmmi]

Your people have suffered horrific things, and the people who committed such atrocities called themselves Christians and surely believed themselves to be, but were anything but.

It is this attitude that brings the things about:

http://www.jewskilledjesus.com/

I have come to hope that site is some sort of parody but I haven't found anything conclusive yet.

 

[TG123]

It is this attitude that brings the things about:

http://www.jewskilledjesus.com/

I have come to hope that site is some sort of parody but I haven't found anything conclusive yet.

Unfortunately, this is not a parody. The people who run this site are the same who run "God hates [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]"... they are part of the 'church' of Fred Phelps.

The site does point out accurately that the Bible does say that Jewish religious authorities and a mob whom they managed to incite did persecute Jesus and pressure Judas to put him to death. I believe this to be the case.

However what they fail to point out is that many Jews (not just 'a few') chose to follow Jesus and to later join the church. The first Christians were former Jews.

The Bible says whoever believes in Jesus is saved, and whoever does not is condemned. This applies to all peoples of every nation, not only Jews.

There is no mention in the Bible anywhere that Jews of the future or present are to be held responsible for what the pharisees did to Jesus. There is also no mention in the Bible of any "Jewish world order" or conspiracy to run the world or other such nonsense.

As an aside, I also do not believe that the Bible predicted the reformation of Israel in 1948. Also, although I love the Jewish people like anyone else, I do not believe that Israel is justified in everything it does, especially when it engages in human rights abuses against Palestinians. I think that this sort of attitude is as wrong as demonizing the Jewish people. It is also racism, only against another victim.

Some other things to note- Jesus praised people who would come into the temple to pray in humility... like the man who beat his chest and cried out to God he is a sinner. He also praised people who gave everything they had to God... like the woman who gave a few coins because she had nothing else to give. Both people were obviously Jews, no one else would pray or donate to the temple if they weren't. Of course, such facts are very inconvenient for antisemites like Fred Phelps and other morons, so they overlook these Biblical facts, and pick and choose what they like.

So in short, does the Bible say that the Jews killed Jesus?... Yes and no. Does it say that the Jews followed Jesus?... Yes and no.

Some did, and some didn't. It is necessary to read the Bible in its entirety, not just pick and choose passages. This I think creates a headache for both Fred Phelps and others who hate and demonize Jews and Israel, as well as right-wing 'Christians' who defend almost everything Israel does, even if it means harming Palestinians. But maybe more of that on another thread, I got derailed a bit (by myself).

 

[dazed]

Do you know their mailing address? Provide it and I will gladly write to them.

While google for their mailing address, I came across this youtube video. I think you will receive the same response as in this video. Everything is ok as long as that action supports Islam. Warning: do not read the comments.

Anal Sex For Jihad Fatwa(Subtitled) - YouTube

The last one I am aware of took place in 1903.

Kishinev pogrom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am sure there are more recent cases as well.

When was the last time a non-Buddhist group launched a campaign of ethnic cleansing against Sri Lanka's Tamils?

Did these Buddhists scream "Buddha is Great" while killing the Tamils? I think you are hard pressed to find atrocities committed by Buddhists in the name of their religion. We are religion of peace, not to be confused with Religion of Peace, because we never have gov't power. The exception would be Tibetan Buddhists and Shintoism.

Cute.

What's not cute is that Muslims and Islamphiles insisted that they have the right to commit atrocities that Christians did 500 years ago. Instead of "we'll skip all those sectarian violence, Spanish Inquisition terrors," it's not fair, we want to have a crack at those too.

 

[LoAmmi]

TG123,

I certainly respect your opinion. We're going to disagree on points, but that's fine.

 

[simplegifts]

Does it matter if the scriptures say it if that is what they did?

However, the scriptures they quoted were the ones where Jews were called vipers, of the Devil, evil, and the like. It spiraled into a belief that the Jews should not exist for what they did to Jesus.

How about 1 Thess. 2:
14 For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews 15 who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to everyone 16 in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.

Yes absolutely it does matter. Hate of a reliigion is one thing, hate of a group of people is prejudice and that is exactly what Islam promotes.

Please notice 1 Thess. 2 is speaking about a specific group of Jews that killed Jesus and are hostile to all.

Nowhere does Christian Scripture order killing of all Jews or non-christians for all times, or at any time for that matter.

The Quran by comparison is in no way limitng.

Funny side note Muslims always quote the following as a peaceful verse:

005:032 On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.

A person seeking violence can easily point out - that verse is only directed towrads Jews.

 

[simplegifts]

While google for their mailing address, I came across this youtube video. I think you will receive the same response as in this video. Everything is ok as long as that action supports Islam. Warning: do not read the comments.

Anal Sex For Jihad Fatwa(Subtitled) - YouTube


Did these Buddhists scream "Buddha is Great" while killing the Tamils? I think you are hard pressed to find atrocities committed by Buddhists in the name of their religion. We are religion of peace, not to be confused with Religion of Peace, because we never have gov't power. The exception would be Tibetan Buddhists and Shintoism.

What's not cute is that Muslims and Islamphiles insisted that they have the right to commit atrocities that Christians did 500 years ago. Instead of "we'll skip all those sectarian violence, Spanish Inquisition terrors," it's not fair, we want to have a crack at those too.

Is that video for real!!!???

RIGHTS - Alevi family's home stoned, stable torched in southeastern Turkey

Alevi family's home stoned, stable torched in southeastern Turkey
ISTANBUL



The home of an Alevi family was stoned and their stables burned down by an angry mob yesterday after the family allegedly told a Ramadan drummer not to wake them for sahur, the meal before sunrise.

Members of the Evli family in the Sürgü village of the southeastern Malatya province allegedly asked a Ramadan drummer not to drum in front of their home the night of July 28 as they were not fasting and had work early in the morning. The two sides quarreled after the drummer rejected the family’s request.

News of the incident was heard throughout the village and a mob of around 60 people gathered in front of the Evli family’s house yesterday. The group hurled stones at the family's home and said the family members were “Kurds and Alevis.” The small contingent of gendarmerie soldiers in the villlage was unable to contain the crowd so reinforcements were called in from the Doğanşehir district.

The group reportedly chanted slogans, yelled “Allahu ekber,” meaning God is great, sang the Turkish national anthem and said “this family will leave this place.” Evli family members turned off their lights and hid in their homes in terror. The group also set a stable belonging to the Evli family on fire, which prompted the gendarmerie to fire shots into the air.

Security forces were able to disperse the crowd after reinforcements arrived.

Hasan Hüseyin Evli, whose home was attacked, said his family had wanted to live in peace together as Alevis and Sunnis. “We do not want such incidents, we have never hurt anyone,” he said.

Leyla Evli showed journalists the stones hurled at her home by the mob. “They came to lynch us. They shouted ‘death to Kurds, death to Alevis.’ They told us to leave and threatened to kill us if we did not,” she said.

Calm was restored in Sürgü after gendarmerie forces took measures in the village to increase security and placed officers on patrol around the Evli family’s house today.

 

[dazed]

Is that video for real!!!???

I think so. There are lots of videos by Meri Tv. I'm taking a break from Comedy Central and just watch these clips for a while. It's funny and sad at the same time.

 

[TG123]

While google for their mailing address, I came across this youtube video. I think you will receive the same response as in this video. Everything is ok as long as that action supports Islam. Warning: do not read the comments.

Anal Sex For Jihad Fatwa(Subtitled) - YouTube

So what's their address? You found a moron who was dumb enough to make a video of himself (assuming the translation is indeed accurate), congratulations.

Did these Buddhists scream "Buddha is Great" while killing the Tamils?

What does it matter what they were yelling as they were raping Tamil women and girls???

I think you are hard pressed to find atrocities committed by Buddhists in the name of their religion.

But their religion doesn't necessarily stop them from killing either.

We are religion of peace, not to be confused with Religion of Peace, because we never have gov't power. The exception would be Tibetan Buddhists and Shintoism.

Oh the Shintoists. They've only been slaughtering Chinese and Koreans ever since Japan got powerful enough to do so. And during the second world war they slaughtered somewhere between 10 to 20 million Chinese people. And they for the most still refuse even acknowledge these things happened, even less to apologize.

Yet you don't really post threads talking about that, do you? And you don't link their atrocities to Buddhism, like you link atrocities of Muslim extremists to Islam.

What's not cute is that Muslims and Islamphiles insisted that they have the right to commit atrocities that Christians did 500 years ago. Instead of "we'll skip all those sectarian violence, Spanish Inquisition terrors," it's not fair, we want to have a crack at those too.

Has JJ ever said that? Has Muslimsoldier ever said that? Sisteroffaith? Amorly? Please show me anyone on this forum saying extremist Muslims are justified in their atrocities, or that they have had a 'right' to do them.

 

[LoAmmi]

Has JJ ever said that? Has Muslimsoldier ever said that? Sisteroffaith? Amorly? Please show me anyone on this forum saying extremist Muslims are justified in their atrocities, or that they have had a 'right' to do them.

I think it is meant about me. Except if that's what he took away from my comment, he didn't understand it.

 

[dazed]

So what's their address? You found a moron who was dumb enough to make a video of himself (assuming the translation is indeed accurate), congratulations.

The moron issued a fatwa. That means he is more authorative on Islam and Koran than you and me. Maybe an Arabic speaker on this forum can vouch for translation.

I'll get to the address as soon as I finish the video collection. Might be while though.

What does it matter what they were yelling as they were raping Tamil women and girls???

I don't recall Tamils asking the world to stop Buddhists from killing them. Not even when they choked up the main Canadian highways with their demonstration. It was simply asking the Sri Lankan to negotiate and stop killing Tamils.

But their religion doesn't necessarily stop them from killing either.

Never claim that. In fact, the Ming Dynasty founder (?) was a former Buddhist monk. I only claim that there are not too many instances a Buddhist will go on a rampage in the name of his religion. My Excel spreadsheet crashed when I try to record all the "Allahu Akbar" incidents.

Oh the Shintoists. They've only been slaughtering Chinese and Koreans ever since Japan got powerful enough to do so. And during the second world war they slaughtered somewhere between 10 to 20 million Chinese people. And they for the most still refuse even acknowledge these things happened, even less to apologize.

Yet you don't really post threads talking about that, do you? And you don't link their atrocities to Buddhism, like you link atrocities of Muslim extremists to Islam.

I guess Shintoists got a pass just like German Christians got a free ride for BBQing the Jews in WWII.

I don't recall Japan went on a rampage to spread its version of Buddhism? Japan was a fusion of Bushido, Emperor worship, Shintoism and nationalistic pride. I'll be more happy to post threads of atrocities linking to Buddhism if you can show me a few sites. Preferably some chapters and verses where a Buddhist is reportedly quote before blowing himself up.

Has JJ ever said that? Has Muslimsoldier ever said that? Sisteroffaith? Amorly? Please show me anyone on this forum saying extremist Muslims are justified in their atrocities, or that they have had a 'right' to do them.

Implied permission? If every time I crictized my room mate for wetting his bed and someone pointed that we all wet our beds at one time, doesn't that mean it's ok for him to continuing wetting his bed even when he's well into his twenty?

 

[LoAmmi]

Implied permission? If I crictized my room mate for wetting his bed and someone pointed that we all wet our beds at one time, doesn't that mean it's ok for him to continuing wetting his bed even when he's well into his twenty?

My response to your statement about that is pointing out that you are using "room mate" to suggest the same age. There is an age difference here and perhaps there is something to that. I'm not saying it forgives what people do. But it is important to realize the age differences between religions.

In other words, in your example you would be critical of someone wetting the bed at an age where you still wet the bed. That could be somewhat hypocritical depending on how it is approached.

 

[simplegifts]

A news articlw from last year but might help explain some of the violence:

Ramadan attacks hit, more expected
Posted: 5 August, 2011
(Story photo by Chris Brown)

International (MNN) ― Reports of violence and threats of violence have come from all over the Muslim world since the start of Ramadan on Monday August 1.

In Pakistan, at least 10 have been killed since the Muslim holy month began. A Singaporean news source reports that a sect of minority Muslims in Indonesia fear for their lives in the face of Islamic extremists during Ramadan.

Christians throughout the world are at high risk.

It's typical for violence to heighten during Ramadan throughout Muslim cultures worldwide, but the flare-ups have been worsening year by year. One expert on Islam told Mission Network News that there are two main reasons for this: religion and politics.

Fouad Masri, founder of the Crescent Project, says devout Muslims spend the month of Ramadan fasting daily, praying, chanting the Qur'an, reading the Qur'an, taking trips to the mosque, and proving their devotion to God. Masri attributes much of the violence to a sense of cleansing that some Muslims feel necessary during what's considered the holiest of months.

"Because it's a holy month, if you (as a Muslim) touch someone who is not Muslim, that defiles you," explains Masri. "Now the violence happens because you want to cleanse the society. These non-Muslims are probably eating while they're supposed to be fasting. You want to show God that you are so zealous for Him and for Islam, that you are willing to kill them or expel them from your community."

Masri says it is a matter of seeing impurity as external and religion as external, rather than an internal, heart devotion.

That's the religious aspect, but it doesn't seem to explain why violence would be increasing over the years. For that issue, the tables turn to politics.

"Islam is a political system," says Masri. "They need to take charge of the political structure, and as they see themselves losing in the political arena, they need to bring up political issues across the Muslim world--from Morocco all the way to Indonesia."

Unlike Christianity, says Masri, Islamic communities bring up more political issues as opposed to moral. "The whole system there is in upheaval, politically. So you have the mosque or the elders of the religion siding with one group or the other. In the recent decade, they've seen that there is the concept of jihad on the right, through terrorism--groups like al Qaeda who are propagating jihad more and more."

As the rift between Sunni and Shiite deepens, violence is increasingly used as a solution, as well. Masri says there are no verses in the Qur'an that allude to reconciliation, and "violence is an easy way to get rid of things. Communication, discussion, dialogue takes time."

The increase in violence is enough to cause believers in Muslim nations to lay low, and with good reason. They have often been the subject of extremists' cleansings or have been scapegoats for other matters during Ramadan.

Masri, who grew up during wartime in Lebanon, says that the Lord uses His people during Ramadan, as well as other times, to share the Good News.

"The way you share the Gospel, and your activities, change. But you find that the Holy Spirit opens more doors. Sometimes you'll be sharing the Gospel when bombs are flying. Or maybe there's a car bomb that explodes, and then you're able to minister to the neighbors and to the injured people," notes Masri.

The amazing thing, especially during Ramadan, is that many Muslims seem to be open to hearing the Gospel. They are drawn to the peace that characterizes the believers around them.

"So many times we look at the situation through temporal eyes, and we say, ‘Wait a second, there's violence. We should lay low. We should probably not share.' And suddenly, the Holy Spirit opens huge doors for us, maybe through these activities around us," says Masri. "The violence proves that Islam has not solved the human problem."

Pray that believers in Muslim nations would be bold this month. Pray for God to cause many to hunger for the Truth during Ramadan. Pray that those who are seeking another truth would find the only Truth.

 

[JJWhite]

The moron issued a fatwa. That means he is more authorative on Islam and Koran than you and me. Maybe an Arabic speaker on this forum can vouch for translation.

I watched it last night when I was really sleepy, and I didn't focus on the English translation... but given that the Arabic said what it said, I don't see how the translation could be much worse.. lol

I also looked up MEMRI online... it seems like its function is to find every moronic thing they can on Middle Eastern news/programs and bring them all together.. then air so that viewers develop a poor image of Middle Easterners (Arabs and Persians).

If you notice, the Arabic speaker on the show is making fun of this so called fatwa given by who he labels as "a Wahhabi scholar" (who remains unnamed). Judging by him labeling the the so-called scholar a "Wahhabi" and his Bahrani accent, I'm gonna guess that the man is a Shi'ite with an agenda.

But.. yeah.. I'm not gonna even consider that the translation was off, even without reading it carefully... the Arabic was pretty gross.

 

[muslimsoldier4life]

The moron issued a fatwa. That means he is more authorative on Islam and Koran than you and me. Maybe an Arabic speaker on this forum can vouch for translation.

Anyone can go on, speak in Arabic claiming to be an Imam and issue a fatwa. Where or not he is legitimate is another ball game entirely.