Mosaic Legalism and the Law of Moses

[BobRyan]

You have your letter of the Law, and we have Christ Jesus.

I have scripture AND I have Christ saying this when it comes to sola scriptura - upholding the Word of God ...

Mark 7
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

"This IS the LOVE of God what we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3

And I know that no amount of insulting or accusing others would make my point "more clear" so no need for me to stoop to that.

 

[Studyman]

Your straw man argument will not prove anything.

Jr

It's not a straw man argument. You are preaching to the world that according to Peter in Acts 15, the "Yoke" that the fathers couldn't bear was God's Laws which HE placed in the Necks of those men HE rescued from Egypt. Laws that you preach to the world are impossible to "keep", and yet God commanded they "keep" them anyway, and slaughtered them when they didn't.

I have no doubt you have been convinced this is true. But if it is true, and it was God's Law that caused the downfall of Israel, then you are preaching to the world that God is a Liar, and that the Prophets HE sent to them are liars as well.

I pointed out to you that this teaching you are promoting isn't knew. The very first thing the serpent convinced Eve of, was that God is a Liar. It's in your own Bible should you choose to read it.

I also pointed out that according to Scriptures, this same God became a man in the person of Jesus. "I am HE", "I and my Father are One".

So then if God is a Liar according to your religious philosophy, then Jesus is also a Liar.

At first you defended this religious philosophy be telling folks God has sovereign power, implying that God lied to His People because HE has the Sovereign power to do so.

But that is really quite a telling statement, isn't it? In your religion, This God requires faith/trust from those who you preach to the World HE openly lied to.

So even you must see how foolish such an implication is. So now you are reverting to calling my argument against your religious philosophy a "Straw man" argument.

The point here is that Peter wasn't telling us that God's Laws are the Burden the father's couldn't bear. Paul wasn't calling God's Laws "Beggarly Elements". These are false teachings about the Word of God that Jesus, His Prophets of old, and HIS Disciples warned about over and over and over and over again.

For me it isn't about God's Laws at this point. It's about religion, and winds of doctrine promoted as truth, when they are not true, at least if the God of the Bible can be trusted.

Of course if you are convinced God is a Liar, then you are free to create a religion, or walk in a religion, from the imagination of your own mind. Something Eve was convinced into doing.

Gen. 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

I am simply trying to get you to consider the possibility that maybe the God of the Bible isn't a Liar. And that the "Yoke" the fathers couldn't bear was not God's Laws as you preach, but their religion they called the Law of Moses. And that Peter knew this, and this is why he directed them away from the "believing" Pharisees, and Toward the Scribes who read directly from Moses every Sabbath, Just as Jesus directed Peter to do in Matt. 23.

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

What if it is you who are wrong, and not God?

 

[BobRyan]

What if it is you who are wrong, and not God?

Rom 3:
3 What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it? 4 May it never be! Rather, let God be found true, though every man be found a liar, as it is written,
“That You may be justified in Your words,
And prevail when You are judged.”

"As it is written" -- where?

Answer: In Scripture, in the Word of God, in the Bible

 

[Studyman]

Rom 3:
3 What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it? 4 May it never be! Rather, let God be found true, though every man be found a liar, as it is written,
“That You may be justified in Your words,
And prevail when You are judged.”

"As it is written" -- where?

Answer: In Scripture, in the Word of God, in the Bible

Amen,

Luke 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[SwordmanJr]

Repeating the same old stuff will not make your case. Copy and paste, copy and paste, as if that somehow magically charms your accusations into some semblance of reality, and using manipulative language such as "condemned," which was never in my vocabulary used in relation to Peter's words nor Jeremiah. That's called straw man argumentation, which will never win the day for you.

Jr

 

[SwordmanJr]

It's not a straw man argument. You are preaching to the world that according to Peter in Acts 15, the "Yoke" that the fathers couldn't bear was God's Laws which HE placed in the Necks of those men HE rescued from Egypt. Laws that you preach to the world are impossible to "keep", and yet God commanded they "keep" them anyway, and slaughtered them when they didn't.

The Lord slaughtered them when they did indeed break the commandments when it came to idolatry and fornication with the pagan nations around Israel. Never did the Lord destroy Israel for infractions of the lesser laws. They were required to offer up constant, ongoing sacrifices for their breaches of the Law. No man could keep all the Law, and neither can you. To say that you can is blasphemy, because that is a claim that YOU did not need the fulfillment of the Law in Christ Jesus, and for Him to die on the cross for you.

I have no doubt you have been convinced this is true. But if it is true, and it was God's Law that caused the downfall of Israel, then you are preaching to the world that God is a Liar, and that the Prophets HE sent to them are liars as well.

I'm preaching to the world that YOU are a liar. We ALL are liars, and God is true.

I pointed out to you that this teaching you are promoting isn't knew.

What?

The very first thing the serpent convinced Eve of, was that God is a Liar. It's in your own Bible should you choose to read it.

This isn't about God, this is about you and your false teachings.

I also pointed out that according to Scriptures, this same God became a man in the person of Jesus. "I am HE", "I and my Father are One".

So then if God is a Liar according to your religious philosophy, then Jesus is also a Liar.

No, I simply don't buy into YOUR misrepresentations of what's written in the Bible.

At first you defended this religious philosophy be telling folks God has sovereign power, implying that God lied to His People because HE has the Sovereign power to do so.

Nope, I never said any such thing. You transliterated that out of thin air.

But that is really quite a telling statement, isn't it? In your religion, This God requires faith/trust from those who you preach to the World HE openly lied to.

You're still hammering on that straw man argument. It won't work, dude. They can go back and read what I said.

So even you must see how foolish such an implication is. So now you are reverting to calling my argument against your religious philosophy a "Straw man" argument.

Yeah, because you're arguing against things I never said.

The point here is that Peter wasn't telling us that God's Laws are the Burden the father's couldn't bear. Paul wasn't calling God's Laws "Beggarly Elements".

Who are you quoting? The fact that the CONTEXT of that section of scripture clearly is pointing at circumcision AND the Law of Moses, you have no footing upon which to stand.

These are false teachings about the Word of God that Jesus, His Prophets of old, and HIS Disciples warned about over and over and over and over again.

It only seems false to people who will not the key passages in context, and who inject into it what is not there. The crowd reading through here isn't jumping to your defense because they can go and read it for themselves and see what is says for themselves. I don't have to defend what's written for all to see. So, get a clue here.

For me it isn't about God's Laws at this point....

For YOU.... So this really is about YOU. Well, my friend, "For me...," it should be about God and His word, and what it says. I have confidence in other people's ability to read Acts 15 for themselves and see that the context is what it is, in spite of what YOU would like for it to be saying.

Jr

 

[Studyman]

The Lord slaughtered them when they did indeed break the commandments when it came to idolatry and fornication with the pagan nations around Israel. Never did the Lord destroy Israel for infractions of the lesser laws. They were required to offer up constant, ongoing sacrifices for their breaches of the Law.

Yes, they were required to partake of atonement "Works" for remission of sins "til the Seed Came". After "those days" HE Himself would provide for the atonement as HE promised in Jer. 31. What is your point?

No man could keep all the Law, and neither can you. To say that you can is blasphemy, because that is a claim that YOU did not need the fulfillment of the Law in Christ Jesus, and for Him to die on the cross for you.

You preach this to the world. Just as you preach that Peter is telling us the "Yoke" those Pharisees were "tempting God with" was the Laws God gave them and told them they could keep.

Duet. 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.

11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.

12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

I don't believe God's Words are blasphemy and neither did Peter.

You are preaching to the World that Peter is telling folks in Acts 15 that the "Yoke" the fathers couldn't bear was God's Laws placed on their necks by God.

This religious philosophy is popular, but a falsehood just the same, a "false teaching". You are telling lies about the God of the Bible. The YOKE the father's couldn't bear was Not God's Ways, but their own ways that they were too stubborn and stiff necked to repent from.

Peter is not teaching what you attribute to him in Acts 15. You provide nothing more than your own words in support of your religious philosophy, because the Entire Bible exposes this preaching as untrue.

God is not a liar, and His Prophets are not a liar. Men who trust in this God, can and do keep Him Commandments, as the scriptures teach.

Rev. 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Your preaching that this is not possible, is no different than the serpent telling Eve God's Commandment makes her blind.

I'm preaching to the world that YOU are a liar. We ALL are liars, and God is true.

Religious men are only liars when they promote religious philosophies which reject the very Word's of God Himself.

This isn't about God, this is about you and your false teachings.

I'm not the one preaching to the world that God lied to Israel when HE told them they were capable of obeying Him. You are the one preaching to the world that the "Yoke of Bondage" the "fathers" couldn't bear was God's Laws HE placed on them.

Not Peter, and not me.

No, I simply don't buy into YOUR misrepresentations of what's written in the Bible.

It's Pretty hard to misrepresent "For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off." 14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

I could deny HE said it, or ignore it, but it's real hard to misunderstand HIS intent here.

Nope, I never said any such thing. You transliterated that out of thin air.

"Your religion seems to have a problem with God's Sovereignty; alleging by implication that He has no right to have given a burden to great to bare, the Law of Moses, to His intended, stiff-necked and idolatrous people who NEEDED that burden to teach them the necessity for love and obedience."

I am just listening to your preaching JR. You are preaching that God Lied to Israel when HE said they could Keep His Laws He gave to them for their own Good. You are preaching He Lied to them because He has the sovereign right to Lie if HE wants.

I didn't make up anything, I can only go by what you say.

You're still hammering on that straw man argument. It won't work, dude. They can go back and read what I said.

I copied and printed several copies of your OP and our discussion, and our church has been studying your OP for a couple of weeks now. It is a good example of how easy it is to take one sentence out of the entire Bible, and build a doctrine around it.

Also, how powerful religious traditions of the land are when you are shown that your version of Acts 15 makes God out as a Liar through out the entire Law and Prophets, and you are not even interested enough to consider.

Who are you quoting? The fact that the CONTEXT of that section of scripture clearly is pointing at circumcision AND the Law of Moses, you have no footing upon which to stand.

And yet, if I ask you exactly what these gentiles were hearing when they asked that "these Words" be taught to them the next Sabbath, you won't answer. And if I ask you what Word's these Gentiles would hear "being read in the synagogues every sabbath day" you will not answer either.

No, I must agree with your religious philosophy that Peter turned these Gentiles away from the Law of Moses, and sent them to learn from the Law of Moses. And that God, the Father, is a Liar, and that HE placed Laws on their necks that they were incapable of keeping, while HE told them they were well within their grasp to keep them.

I would not usually spend so much time on such foolishness, but this is a good study for understanding why Jesus warned so many times about the "leaven" of religious men.

It only seems false to people who will not the key passages in context, and who inject into it what is not there. The crowd reading through here isn't jumping to your defense because they can go and read it for themselves and see what is says for themselves. I don't have to defend what's written for all to see. So, get a clue here.

I have no doubt the Word of God doesn't return void. There are folks on this forum who has considered the implication of the religious philosophy which preaches Peter called God's Laws the "Yoke" the fathers couldn't bear.

For YOU.... So this really is about YOU. Well, my friend, "For me...," it should be about God and His word, and what it says. I have confidence in other people's ability to read Acts 15 for themselves and see that the context is what it is, in spite of what YOU would like for it to be saying.
Jr

Yes, I am centering my replies on your religious philosophy which preaches to the World that God saved Abraham's Children from the Bondage of Sin and Deception in Egypt, only to reward them for their trust in Him, by placing Laws on their backs that were impossible to keep, while telling them they could keep them, over and over through out the entire Law and Prophets.

So it isn't about God's Laws, it's about your religious philosophy regarding the Character of the God of the Bible, and its implication that God/Christ Lied to Israel, Placed a Yoke of Bondage, Beggarly Elements, on their backs, commanded them to "keep" them, and then slaughtered them when they couldn't.

This is what you are preaching when you make the claim that the "Yoke" these "Pharisees who believed" were trying to place on the necks of the Disciples that their fathers couldn't bear, in Acts 15, was God's Laws He gave to HIS Children.

The Word of God rejects your claims.

 

[SwordmanJr]

Yes, they were required to partake of atonement "Works" for remission of sins "til the Seed Came". After "those days" HE Himself would provide for the atonement as HE promised in Jer. 31. What is your point?

The point is that you do, by subjective means, divide up the Law of Moses, proclaiming what is still binding and what is not.

The point is that we have the Law Giver within us now, who has written the relevant Laws that apply to us upon our hearts. In other words, no longer do we need to dwell in the shadow of the letter of the Law. Instead, we live by the Spirit. The Law Giver has not written the Law of Moses upon my heart. There is no need, because much of that law has no relevance to us today. We are not the stiff-necked people as was Israel.

If you are declaring yourself to be stiff-necked like the Israelites, and thus the need for the Law of Moses to try and make you holy, then go for it. Live that Law to the best of your ability....but beware of the massive, crushing weight it has when it falls on you and grinds you to powder. The Law is without mercy in many instances.

You preach this to the world. Just as you preach that Peter is telling us the "Yoke" those Pharisees were "tempting God with" was the Laws God gave them and told them they could keep.

I don't need to defend what the text in that context clearly points out. Everyone can read it for themselves as see just how wrong you are. Again, I don't need to defend the obvious.

I don't believe God's Words are blasphemy and neither did Peter.

Good. Neither do I. This is nothing more than yet another of your straw man arguments.

You are preaching to the World that Peter is telling folks in Acts 15 that the "Yoke" the fathers couldn't bear was God's Laws placed on their necks by God.

No. I did not come up with that on my own. It was Peter. You obviously don't like what he said, so you do some mental gymnastics of symantics and grammatical corruption to try and make it into what you want it to say. That's on you, not me. I don't have to prove anything. I encourage people to read that entire chapter to see for themselves what is being said. We don't need you to come along and try to corrupt our minds and our understanding. I'm educated enough to be able to read what was said. That may work on some jehovah's witnesses or mormons, but not someone who has a theological Th.D and Ph.D in philosophy, which was my dad, and who taught me well. I too am educated, but in the field of technology, and am also a prolific writer with the ability to read something for what it says.

But, hey, don't go off half cocked to accuse me of saying that one needs degrees under his belt to understand what's written in the Bible. No need for that. I appeal simply to the average person's reading comprehension skills and their ability to take this to the Lord that He may teach and instruct them of the absolute truth as opposed to your corruptions of the text by whatever motivation that is within you.

Don't flatter yourself with the idea that I'm teaching any one in this forum any thing. I always point others to 1 John 2:27. We need only the Lord to teach us, not men. I always speak against the following of any man, especially those who draw others to themselves like so many "pastors" today and historically. They too lead so many astray because most average people refuse to exercise responsibility over what they choose to believe.

All the devils and wolves in sheep's clothing out there depend on others believing and following them. The broad path that leads back to the Law of Moses has a growing population upon it, and those people have nobody but themselves to blame for their feet walking that path. They cannot have an abiding relationship with Christ Jesus and yet depend on the Law of Moses to do any good things for them. The Lord wants our total dependence upon Him and Him alone as the Law Giver. Your emoptional appeals to get people back to the letter of that Law that kills, it's a dead end theology and way of life because it detracts away from the Life that is found ONLY in Christ Jesus.

I'm not trying to tell others to NOT do the things of the Law that are meaningfully holy and good. Honoring mother and father, loving God with one's all, loving neighbors as oneself, etc., these are things written upon the hearts of those who are led by the Spirit. The wicked and evil teaching of going BACK to live the Law of Moses, you can have it. Those who live by the Spirit have no need to walk that broad path that leads to destruction.

2Co 3:6 KJV - Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Others reading this: Please read the above in its context. It's a magnificent treatise to the infilling of the Spirit of God. I leave this man to the destruction of being ground into powder by the letter that he so much desires. Let the Spirit of the Lord lead and teach you His Truth in this context and all others. Draw not unto me, but draw unto your Lord who created you. THAT is my instruction to the world, contrary to the lies and deceptions this man is promoting about my words. I have said all this before, and I have said it again.

Bless the Lord, and bless you all.

Jr

 

[SwordmanJr]

It's not a straw man argument. You are preaching to the world that according to Peter in Acts 15, the "Yoke" that the fathers couldn't bear was God's Laws which HE placed in the Necks of those men HE rescued from Egypt. Laws that you preach to the world are impossible to "keep", and yet God commanded they "keep" them anyway, and slaughtered them when they didn't.

I'm surprised at the lack of needed depth to your understanding about the Law. If by the keeping of the Law they could enter into salvation, then Jesus died for nothing. For crying out loud, man. Don't you get it? If mankind could possibly live the Law, what need would there have been for a Savior? This is basic!

Gal 2:19 KJV - For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

What part of that do you not understand?

Gal 3:11 KJV - But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Not the Law, but by FAITH. Again, what part of that do you not get?

Jr

 

[Studyman]

I'm surprised at the lack of needed depth to your understanding about the Law. If by the keeping of the Law they could enter into salvation, then Jesus died for nothing. For crying out loud, man. Don't you get it? If mankind could possibly live the Law, what need would there have been for a Savior? This is basic!

What I am talking about is your preaching of the message of Peter in Acts 15. Your almost Clinton like play on words and defending your philosophy is amazing.

I never said one word suggesting that my sin could be washed away by me. But you must somehow deflect from your religious philosophy and change the topic. It is clear to me that the Sacrifice Jesus made to Atone for sins are the reason HIS Father will show Mercy to men. Without HIS Blood there is no atonement.

But it is also Biblical Truth that not Everyone who call Jesus their Lord, will enter into HIS Mercy. Those who live in lawlessness, even though they give Jesus the credit for all their preaching and good deeds, means nothing if you live in lawlessness. At least according to the Jesus of the Bible. And it is also Biblical Truth that the "Yoke of Bondage" placed on the necks of the fathers was not God's Laws placed there by God. The "Yoke of Bondage" was their own religion they claimed came from God.

At least according to the God of the Bible.

Jer. 23:20 The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly.

21 I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.

22 But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings.

But in your religion, this is a Lie from God to deceive men into repenting of their religious ways and turning towards the "WAY" of the God of the Bible, which you preach to the world is an impossible "Yoke of Bondage" despite God's Many pleadings to trust Him and Obey Him.

23 Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off?

24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.

25 I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed.

But according to your religious philosophy, this is not true for Acts 15. According to you, there were no false prophets. There was only a God who lied to them and told them to keep Laws you preach they couldn't obey. And that The Prophets were only teaching what God told them through Moses. It wasn't the Pharisees who "believed" that were deceivers. It was God whose Laws you preach were the "Yoke" they were trying to place on the necks of the Disciples that their fathers couldn't bear.

26 How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart;

In Acts 15, these were the only Holy Scriptures there were. Peter knew of men who claimed to be from God, teaching the Law of Moses, who were not.

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

This is why he directed them away from the religious men and their religious philosophy, and directed the gentiles to hear from Moses himself every sabbath in the Temple.

To believe your rendition of Acts 15, I would have to believe that God Lied to Israel, and then sent Jeremiah to Lie to Israel as well.

I know how this goes. Like the Pharisees, you will not be persuaded by Scriptures, or by the words of Paul, Peter, or of God Almighty.

You have been convinced that God's Commandments and Laws are a "Yoke of Bondage" the fathers couldn't bear. And any Scriptures which expose your philosophy as false, you ignore and reject outright, refusing to even discuss them.

Gal 2:19 KJV - For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

What part of that do you not understand?

God's Law says the wages of sin is death. I died, "Through the Law". Why did I die? Was it because I was living unto God? Or was it because I wasn't living unto God?

Of course, since you are only here to promote your own religion, I doubt that you will answer this question, or engage in any real discussion about scriptures.

Was I not a "Child of Disobedience? But now I have been cleansed by His Blood, YES?. I am alive, not by the Letter of the Law, because the Letter kills. "The wages of sin is death". No, I am alive by the Power of the Spirit of Christ.

I am now no longer dead, held captive by sin and deception, a slave to sin and unrighteousness. I have been "freed from the Law" of sin and death, wherein I was held captive, so that I am now free to "Live unto God" and be no more a stiff necked, stubborn "child of disobedience", to "deny myself" and Follow the Christ as did Abraham.

Rom. 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. (That means no) How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

"What part of that do you not understand?"

Gal 3:11 KJV - But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Not the Law, but by FAITH. Again, what part of that do you not get?
Jr

First of all, what Law did God give Moses for "justification"?

Of course you won't answer because you are not here to discuss your OP, just to promote it.

Duet. 32:16 They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger.

17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.

18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.

19 And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.

20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

If you were interested in actual scriptural discussions, we could talk about what "Law" the Jews were trying to push on the Galatians for "Justification". This would entail a discussion about Atonement Laws given exclusively to the Levites on Israel's behalf. A LAW "ADDED" to God's righteous Laws and Commandments because of Transgressions of these Laws and commandments.

Rom. 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

I would ask "What were the "DEEDS" of the Law of Atonement God gave Moses?" I would ask, "Didn't this Priesthood change?" I would ask "what is the Law of Faith?"

But you won't answer. You have been convinced, as many have, that the Jews were trying to push "Love God, and Love your neighbor" for Justification of sins and that Paul rejected the two Greatest Commandments and all that hang on them as the "Yoke of Bondage" that the fathers couldn't bear.

Jesus said we are to "Live by" Every Word of God. In your religion, is HE also a Liar?

 

[SwordmanJr]

What I am talking about is your preaching of the message of Peter in Acts 15. Your almost Clinton like play on words and defending your philosophy is amazing.

Ah, yes. The position of antagonism. The progression of your claims is quite predictable.

I never said one word suggesting that my sin could be washed away by me. But you must somehow deflect from your religious philosophy and change the topic. It is clear to me that the Sacrifice Jesus made to Atone for sins are the reason HIS Father will show Mercy to men. Without HIS Blood there is no atonement.

It's good to hear you say that.

But it is also Biblical Truth that not Everyone who call Jesus their Lord, will enter into HIS Mercy. Those who live in lawlessness, even though they give Jesus the credit for all their preaching and good deeds, means nothing if you live in lawlessness. At least according to the Jesus of the Bible. And it is also Biblical Truth that the "Yoke of Bondage" placed on the necks of the fathers was not God's Laws placed there by God. The "Yoke of Bondage" was their own religion they claimed came from God.

There's your straw man argumentation style. You keep gravitating to that same old horse you've already beaten to death, and whipping a dead horse never makes it go faster....

When the Law Giver dwells within us, we are not Law-less, as you claim. We simply live by faith and by the Spirit. You, on the other hand, choose to live by the letter. Whatever that gets for you, I leave that to the Lord. Go for it, dude. I never said you must depart from it. You obviously want it, so go for it.

No need to comment on the many other false accusations you make, based on your red herring and straw man claims about my meaning. It's pointless. You refuse to read scripture for what it says, and you refuse to read my posts for what they say. Many times I have released you to your religious philosophies, and you keep coming back for more while spewing your senseless diatribes of bait-n-switch word games.

Hey, I'm just not interested. Don't you get that?

Jr

 

[Studyman]

When the Law Giver dwells within us, we are not Law-less, as you claim. We simply live by faith and by the Spirit. You, on the other hand, choose to live by the letter. Whatever that gets for you, I leave that to the Lord. Go for it, dude. I never said you must depart from it. You obviously want it, so go for it.

Nevertheless, in spite of your continued attempts to divert from your own preaching, the "Yoke of Bondage" the fathers couldn't bear was NOT God's Commandments, Statutes and Laws.

This can be easily proven with the Word's of God Himself, as I have posted and you have ignored. It can also be easily proven by Peters own words prior to Acts 15 that you claim are irrelevant. And even if we consider Peter's instruction regarding where the Gentiles can hear Moses every Sabbath day. Also ignored by you.

The Doctrine you are promoting regarding what the "Yoke" the fathers couldn't bear is a false doctrine. If you didn't know it, that is one thing, but now you have been shown by the Word's of God Himself, and His Son that you openly reject.

Matt. 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Are these not the fathers? And why does the God of the Bible say they were lost? You preach it is because they were "chained", "Burdened" with the "Yoke of Bondage" that you preach to the world are God's Laws. All based on the words of Pharisees who you refuse to even question.

But what does this same God tell us the reason they were lost is?

Jer. 50:6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.

And Jesus confirms this Himself.

Matt. 23:4 For they (Pharisees, not God as you preach to the world) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

So the reason for the disagreement between us is because you preach one thing, while God teaches the opposite. Peter was confronted with the same thing in Acts 15. Religious men who claimed to "Believe" Jesus, attempting to "tempt God", by placing religious doctrines Jesus has already condemned, on the backs of men.

This is why Peter directed the Gentiles away from these religious men with their own religious philosophies they called "the law of Moses", and towards the actual Law of Moses, being read every Sabbath day in the synagogues.

Your stubborn self defense of a religion which implies God lied to HIS People through out the Law and Prophets by placed an impossible burden on their backs while telling them they were not an impossible burden, is a perfect teachable moment of the dangers of "living by" religious philosophies of men, and not by "Every Word of God" as the Lord's Christ taught us to do.

No need to comment on the many other false accusations you make, based on your red herring and straw man claims about my meaning. It's pointless. You refuse to read scripture for what it says, and you refuse to read my posts for what they say. Many times I have released you to your religious philosophies, and you keep coming back for more while spewing your senseless diatribes of bait-n-switch word games.

Hey, I'm just not interested. Don't you get that?

Jr

It is clear you don't care. But there are others who have also been snared by the insidious deception that Peter said that God's Laws are the burden the fathers couldn't bear. This reply is for them.

 

[Studyman]

The point is that you do, by subjective means, divide up the Law of Moses, proclaiming what is still binding and what is not.

It wasn't me who "ADDED" a Covenant with Levi on Israels behalf, God did that, I simply believe Him. I didn't "separate" Levi from the other tribes of Israel into God for an exclusive Priesthood, God did that, I just believe Him. I didn't "ADD" the Levitical Priesthood atonement "Works of the Law" because of transgressions of God's Statutes, Commandments and Laws, the God of the Bible did.

There is most certainly a division between what parts of the Law of Moses is binding today, and what parts are not as promised in Jer. 31. The deception promoted by the religions of this land is the religious philosophy that just because we no longer kill the unblemished Lamb, we are also not held by "thou shall not create images of God in the likeness of men" or "thou shall not steal". These are still sins that we are to strive against, not live in. If we live in them, we are not "in Him", but another spirit disguised as Him.

They claim that the Law of Moses is one Law, and if we no longer kill the Lamb, I am then no longer bound by "ANY" of God's Laws. Claiming as you do that God's Laws are against us, a "Yoke of Bondage" that brought about the fall of the fathers. And while Jesus did nail ordinances that were against us to His Cross, it wasn't God's Laws that are against us. To say so is to call both God, and His Son, a Liar. Something I just don't believe. It is your religious philosophy that is wrong, not God's Word.

And so HE did fulfill the Role of the Unblemished Lamb, and the Priesthood is now changed in that no longer are the Levites to hold the exclusive rights to the Priesthood. It's right in your own Bible.

Just because your teachers don't teach you these things, doesn't mean they are not there. Just as the Mainstream Preachers of Jesus' time didn't teach the "LAW of Moses" even though they claimed they did.

Just because your religious philosophy doesn't recognize the separation between the definition of sin, and the "works of the Law" given to Moses for atonement of these sins, "Til the Seed should come", doesn't mean they are not separate.

There was Covenant with Levi to provide for the atonement of sins, it was the "Law of Works". But we are under a new Covenant, No more Levites to provide "Works of the Law" for the atonement of sins, we are justified by Faith.

So your statement "The point is that you do, by subjective means, divide up the Law of Moses, proclaiming what is still binding and what is not", Is almost true, you just are confused regarding who "divided" the LAW. It wasn't me, It was the Law Giver HIMSELF that "ADDED" atonement laws because of transgressions, "Til the Seed should come". I just believe Him.

 

[SwordmanJr]

It wasn't me who "ADDED" a Covenant with Levi on Israels behalf, God did that, I simply believe Him. I didn't "separate" Levi from the other tribes of Israel into God for an exclusive Priesthood, God did that, I just believe Him. I didn't "ADD" the Levitical Priesthood atonement "Works of the Law" because of transgressions of God's Statutes, Commandments and Laws, the God of the Bible did.

There is most certainly a division between what parts of the Law of Moses is binding today, and what parts are not as promised in Jer. 31. The deception promoted by the religions of this land is the religious philosophy that just because we no longer kill the unblemished Lamb, we are also not held by "thou shall not create images of God in the likeness of men" or "thou shall not steal". These are still sins that we are to strive against, not live in. If we live in them, we are not "in Him", but another spirit disguised as Him.

The difference is that, what the Law Giver who indwells all true believers has written in our hearts, THAT is what gives us the power for obedience to His Law. The Law of Moses was a burden to great to bear, as Peter pointed out in Acts 15. It's ok to study it all, but we who live by the Spirit and by faith, we don't have to go around pointing at the letter of the Law that kills. By faith, we are not under that "schoolmaster," as Paul called it.

I'm thankful to the Lord for that.

Jr

 

[Studyman]

The difference is that, what the Law Giver who indwells all true believers has written in our hearts, THAT is what gives us the power for obedience to His Law. The Law of Moses was a burden to great to bear, as Peter pointed out in Acts 15. It's ok to study it all, but we who live by the Spirit and by faith, we don't have to go around pointing at the letter of the Law that kills. By faith, we are not under that "schoolmaster," as Paul called it.

I'm thankful to the Lord for that.

Jr

I'm just pointing out that "many" religious men preach one thing, while the Word of God teaches another. One such man made doctrine promoted by these fraudsters, is that God placed a Yoke on Bondage on the backs of the children HE just rescued from Egypt, which caused them to fall in the wilderness. This teaching does not come from the God of the Bible, but from another spirit.

Here is what Jesus said about the burdens placed on the necks of men.

Matt. 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do;

So to believe these modern religious men and their religious philosophy that many promote, Jesus is telling both who ever could hear Him and also His Disciples, that they should "observe and do" the Yoke of Bondage you preach God placed on the necks of men. Of course God did not burden men with His Commandments, this teaching is a deception . They were burdened because they didn't "believe" God's Words. Not because they believed them.

but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

These religious men claimed to be "teachers of the law", but they were not. Peter also turned Gentiles away from religious men who claimed to teach "the law of Moses" and directed them towards Moses himself, just as Jesus instructed Peter.

Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. (Jesus said "All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do"

Because Peter knew whose "yoke" led the fathers away from God, And it wasn't from Moses.


4 For they (Pharisees, not God as you preach) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

These burdens, deceptions, taught by the Mainstream preachers of Jesus' time are a result of shepherds who had been leading God's Sheep astray for centuries.

7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Jesus Himself said it was for the following reasons that they fell.

Matt. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

"Many" deceivers today also claim to be "teachers of the Gospel of Christ", and like the mainstream preachers of Jesus time, they promote religious philosophies of men and not the Christ. Like ignoring the Temporary Priesthood Covenant God made with Levi on Israel's behalf.

But thank God we have direct access to HIS Word so we can go directly to Him, as Jesus and Peter instructed in their time, and expose these falsehoods and not become snared into following a religious path saturated with doctrines and traditions of religious men, like the religion Jesus was born into. A Path traveled by many, as Jesus warned.

 

[SwordmanJr]

I'm just pointing out that "many" religious men preach one thing, while the Word of God teaches another.

No doubt.

One such man made doctrine promoted by these fraudsters, is that God placed a Yoke on Bondage on the backs of the children HE just rescued from Egypt, which caused them to fall in the wilderness. This teaching does not come from the God of the Bible, but from another spirit.

The story itself tells about their fall in the wilderness. No need for anyone to invent anything, although some do.

Here is what Jesus said about the burdens placed on the necks of men.

Matt. 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do;

So to believe these modern religious men and their religious philosophy that many promote, Jesus is telling both who ever could hear Him and also His Disciples, that they should "observe and do" the Yoke of Bondage you preach God placed on the necks of men. Of course God did not burden men with His Commandments, this teaching is a deception . They were burdened because they didn't "believe" God's Words. Not because they believed them.

but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

These religious men claimed to be "teachers of the law", but they were not. Peter also turned Gentiles away from religious men who claimed to teach "the law of Moses" and directed them towards Moses himself, just as Jesus instructed Peter.

The Law of Moses was certainly in full force up until the time that the Cup of the New Covenant was passed, and consummated on the cross.

Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. (Jesus said "All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do"

Because Peter knew whose "yoke" led the fathers away from God, And it wasn't from Moses.

Well, peter disagreed with you, because those Judaisers were not around back through the generations of their forefathers. There are only two elements mentioned in that discourse in Acts 15; circumcision, and the Law of Moses. There are no other items up to that point mentioned that can be construed as being added traditions of men or anything else. Transplanting the accusation highlighting the difference between what the scribes and pharasees taught from the Torah, and the differences in their actions, that was AFTER the fact of what Peter said about the Law of Moses, and it was James who was then speaking.

So, no, sorry. What you're trying to put forth here is simply unacceptable.

4 For they (Pharisees, not God as you preach) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

These burdens, deceptions, taught by the Mainstream preachers of Jesus' time are a result of shepherds who had been leading God's Sheep astray for centuries.

That is not from Acts 15, so, again, trying to transplant it where it is not bound together into the context of Acts 15 is a less than honest handling of the context.

7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Jesus Himself said it was for the following reasons that they fell.

Matt. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

"Many" deceivers today also claim to be "teachers of the Gospel of Christ", and like the mainstream preachers of Jesus time, they promote religious philosophies of men and not the Christ. Like ignoring the Temporary Priesthood Covenant God made with Levi on Israel's behalf.

But thank God we have direct access to HIS Word so we can go directly to Him, as Jesus and Peter instructed in their time, and expose these falsehoods and not become snared into following a religious path saturated with doctrines and traditions of religious men, like the religion Jesus was born into. A Path traveled by many, as Jesus warned.

Yes, we have access to the original languages from which our Bible is translated to recognize and know when legalistic teachings like yours can be seen for what they are.....false, revealing the tattered tapestry of the theological weaving of verses together to try and make the text say what it does not say in context.

Nice try, but no dice.

Jr

 

[Studyman]

No doubt.



The story itself tells about their fall in the wilderness. No need for anyone to invent anything, although some do.

Yes, you do when you add your own religious philosophy to God's Words. You preach to the world that God placed on their necks a Yoke of Bondage they could't bear. And refuse to believe Jesus Himself, when HE tells you who did place a Yoke of Bondage on the necks of men they couldn't bear.

There is an agenda to convince as many as possible that God's Commandment is the problem with mankind. The serpent convinced Eve of the same thing by quoting some of God's Words.

The truth is that it wasn't God's Commandments that burdened them. It was their stubborn, stiff necked refusal to deny their own religious philosophy, and follow the Instructions of the Same God that had just rescued them from certain death.

The Law of Moses was certainly in full force up until the time that the Cup of the New Covenant was passed, and consummated on the cross.

The Covenant you ignore, that God made with Levi on Israel's behalf, "til the Seed should come", was most certainly in full force until the Seed came. When a religious man omits God's Word to promote a certain religious philosophy, they lose sight of His Teaching. Paul explains in Rom. 1.

Rom. 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, (Accusing HIM of placing a yoke of Bondage that caused the downfall of HIS OWN people. ) neither were thankful; (For HIS Instruction) but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Well, peter disagreed with you, because those Judaisers were not around back through the generations of their forefathers. There are only two elements mentioned in that discourse in Acts 15; circumcision, and the Law of Moses. There are no other items up to that point mentioned that can be construed as being added traditions of men or anything else. Transplanting the accusation highlighting the difference between what the scribes and pharasees taught from the Torah, and the differences in their actions, that was AFTER the fact of what Peter said about the Law of Moses, and it was James who was then speaking.

Regardless of your winds of doctrine, James and Peter directed the Gentiles away from the self proclaimed teachers of the "Law of Moses" and directed them to obey and learn from the Actual Law of Moses.

Since I'm not here to promote a religious philosophy that God's Laws are against mankind, I don't have to ignore or omit Any of the Word's of God.

That is not from Acts 15, so, again, trying to transplant it where it is not bound together into the context of Acts 15 is a less than honest handling of the context.

What is dishonest is to take parts of one chapter in the Bible, and build an entire religious philosophy around it, while omitting the Word's of God in the rest of the Bible because if religious men consider them, they will expose the religious philosophy men built, as a complete falsehood.. Namely, the insidious falsehood you promote that God placed a Yoke of Bondage on the backs of the people HE just saved from Egypt that caused them to fall in the wilderness.

Yes, we have access to the original languages from which our Bible is translated to recognize and know when legalistic teachings like yours can be seen for what they are.....false, revealing the tattered tapestry of the theological weaving of verses together to try and make the text say what it does not say in context.

Nice try, but no dice.
Jr

You are not the only religious philosopher who considered the Law and Prophets heresy, or made false accusations against those who believe them..

Acts 24:13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.

14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

God did not place a Yoke of Bondage on the necks of Peter's fathers that they couldn't bear. No amount of subtle, cleaver arguments, cherry picking of scriptures, rejection or omitting of Holy Scriptures will make this religious philosophy true.

You are free to continue promoting this or any religious doctrine you wish. For me it's about what Every Word of God says. And it doesn't teach that God placed a Yoke of Bondage on their necks they couldn't bear.[/QUOTE]

 

[SwordmanJr]

Yes, you do when you add your own religious philosophy to God's Words.

Coming from you, that's not saying anything worthy of consideration.

Why?

Simply stated, I have consistently pointed ONLY to the indwelling Lord of our salvation. As the indwelling Lord, He has written His Law in our hearts. You casting doubts and revilings at our lack of agreement with you and your feeble attempts at obedience to the letter, it's in vain, dud.

Either the Lord is sufficient in His ability and power to write into our hearts what is more meaningful and powerful enough to direct our steps along the path of obedience, or the Lord is powerless and weak.

Given all this, you really are pathetic when we look upon the full ramifications of what you are saying is your religion. You point to tablets of stone, papyrus and paper, where I point to the One who inspired those writings. Your remaining clueless as to the end result is your problem, not ours.

You reject what Paul, Peter, James, and what John said, and that's on you, not me or anyone else.

Deal with your own disbelief. Stop trying to foist it on others, and you may end up getting along with people much better.

BTW, were you wearing your COVID mask when typing in these forums? Do you care enough about others to wear one in here....?

lol

Jr

 

[Studyman]

Coming from you, that's not saying anything worthy of consideration.

Why?

Simply stated, I have consistently pointed ONLY to the indwelling Lord of our salvation. As the indwelling Lord, He has written His Law in our hearts. You casting doubts and revilings at our lack of agreement with you and your feeble attempts at obedience to the letter, it's in vain, dud.

Either the Lord is sufficient in His ability and power to write into our hearts what is more meaningful and powerful enough to direct our steps along the path of obedience, or the Lord is powerless and weak.

Given all this, you really are pathetic when we look upon the full ramifications of what you are saying is your religion. You point to tablets of stone, papyrus and paper, where I point to the One who inspired those writings. Your remaining clueless as to the end result is your problem, not ours.

You reject what Paul, Peter, James, and what John said, and that's on you, not me or anyone else.

Deal with your own disbelief. Stop trying to foist it on others, and you may end up getting along with people much better.

BTW, were you wearing your COVID mask when typing in these forums? Do you care enough about others to wear one in here....?

lol

Jr

Teaching falsehoods about God is promoted by another spirit in this world, not the Holy Spirit. God didn't place a 613 law, Yoke of Bondage on the necks of the people HE saved from Egypt. This insidious falsehood is easy to discern and expose by following the Instructions of the Lord's Christ Himself.

"Man shall live by Every Word which proceeds from the mouth of God"

Why religious men spend so much time and effort defending and promoting this ridiculous falsehood is another testament of the Spiritual Truth of the Holy Scriptures.

Rom. 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, (a handsome men's hair shampoo model) and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: ( "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:")

25 Who changed the truth of God (Merciful, Just, Perfect) into a lie, (Burdens His People with 613 burdensome laws and kills them when they don't keep them) and worshipped and served the creature (Religion itself) more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

You are free to continue promoting this and other religious philosophies if you want. But we should be able to discuss and discern these religious philosophies with the actual Word's of God, and let HIM have the final say.

Just saying.

 

[Soyeong]

I don't see in those passages that the Galatians ever observed the Judaiism's Lawful feasts and holy days. It speaks of them observing the pagan holidays, but not the Law of Moses and the holy days prescribed therein.

I would agree that Galatians does not say anything about whether or not Gentiles were observing God's holy days in accordance with the example that Christ set for them to follow and that Galatians 4:8-11 is speaking in regard to observing pagan holy days rather than God's holy days.

Well, let's see now:

[Heb 7:11-12 KJV] 11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need [was there] that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

If the way to act in accordance with God's righteousness were to change when the New Covenant was made, then God's righteousness would not be eternal, but it is eternal, therefore Hebrews 7:11-12 is not referring to a change to the content of God's eternal law, such as with it becoming righteous to commit adultery or sinful to help the poor, but rather the context is speaking in regard to a change of the priesthood, which would also require there to be a change of the law in regard to its administration. It was sinful to commit adultery in Genesis 39:9, long before the Mosaic Covenant was made, during it, and remains sinful after it has become obsolete, so there is nothing about any number of God's covenants being made or becoming obsolete that changes which actions are righteous or sinful because they are all made with the same God with the same eternal nature. The only way that instructions for how to act in accordance with God's eternal nature could change would be if the New Covenant were made with a different God with a different nature.

I've seen some folks fall from dizzying heights trying to claim that this is not a reference to the Law of Moses, of necessity, being changed; which, in the Greek, refers to a change of things established or instituted. This fits in perfectly where it is written in [Rom 7:1-4 KJV] 1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? 2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to [her] husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of [her] husband. 3 So then if, while [her] husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. 4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Does it even make sense to you to interpret that passage as saying that we need to die to God's instructions for how to bear fruit for Him in order to be free to bear fruit for Him? At no point in Romans 7:1-4 was the woman ever set free from needing to obey any of God's laws and if she were to get married to a second husband after her first husband died, then she would once again be required to refrain from living with another man while her husband was still alive, so there is nothing in Paul's example from the law that leads to the conclusion that we are now in the same way set free from needing to obey all of God's laws. Furthermore, everything in Romans 6 is speaking in favor of obedience to God and against sin, and in Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to God's law, so there is nothing that Paul was speaking about anywhere in these chapters that was suggesting that we should refuse to submit to God's law.

Logical parallels drawing from one place to another in scripture will not ever change nor alter the clarity of the language in verse four above. Now, the things from the Law of Moses not repeated in the NT should still be considered by each follower of Christ, for some have merit and reasonable application today, and some do not. Some things have been revoked, such as food, as is evidenced in [Mat 15:11 KJV] 11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

Do you really think that the correct interpretation of Matthew 15:11 is that Jesus was was teaching us to rebel against the Father? In Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from the law, so if that is what Jesus had been trying to do, then he would have sinned and disqualified himself from being our Savior. Likewise, you are committing a sin by saying any of God's laws have been revoked. In Deuteronomy 13:4-5, the way that God instructed His people to determine that someone is a false prophet who was not speaking for Him was if they taught against obeying the Mosaic Law, so if that was what Jesus had been doing, then according to God we should disregard him as being a false prophet. God simply did not leave His people any room to follow anyone who speaks against obeying any part of the Mosaic Law. In Matthew 15, Jesus was speaking about a man-made ritual purity law about being made common by eating with unwashed hands, which had nothing to do with any of God's laws, so you should not mistake what was only said against obeying man as being against obeying God.

At no point did Jesus ever saying anything like that the Father had made some mistakes when He gave the Mosaic Law, so he needed to edit it down to just what would later be recorded that he repeated. Likewise, he never rejected the holiness of the Father.

Faith does not uphold the Law of Moses in its totality as being something to which we are to be bound today. I would have to see a verse that contradicts the author of Romans 7 to ever think that what it says actually means something other than what the clarity of the language states.

Paul did not qualify his statement by saying that our faith upholds some of God's law. By saying that there are some laws that our faith does not uphold you are saying that there are some areas where God can't be trusted to guide us in how we should live.

Indeed? [Col 2:14 KJV] 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Thayer's Greek Lexicon ties the Greek word translated as "ordinances" to the definition "the rules and requirements of the law of Moses; carrying a suggestion of severity and of threatened judgment"...just in case someone thinks to try and alter what the text is actually addressing within the original language from which our English translations were translated.

Indeed, they did not need to write new laws to replace the old ones every time that someone was crucified, so the handwriting of ordinances that were written against people who were crucified were not the laws themselves, but the violations of the law that they had committed. The main purpose of the brutality of crucifixion was to act as a deterrent, so the Romans wanted to make sure that everyone knew why people were being executed. God's laws themselves are for our own good (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13), so they are not against us, but rather it was only the list of our transgression of God's law that was against us.

Why would the author declare the Law of Moses as being against us? Simply put:

[2Co 3:6 KJV] 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Obedience to the law according to the letter undermines both the intent of what God has commanded and why He has commanded it, which therefore leads to death just as assuredly as refusing to submit to it.

[Rom 6:14 KJV] 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

In case someone thinks that our not being under the Law of Moses that we may sin freely...no! [Rom 6:15 KJV] 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so the fact that being under grace doesn't mean that we are permitted to sin conclusively demonstrates that we are still under God's law, which means that Romans 6:14 could not be referring to God's law. Paul described the law that we aren't under as being a law where sin had dominion over us, which does not describe God's holy, righteous, and good law, which Paul directly said was not sinful (Romans 7:7), but rather it is the law of sin where sin had dominion over us.

Paul had a heart for those who were in bondate to the Law of Moses, [1Co 9:20 KJV] 20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

Gain them to what? The freedom FROM the Law of Moses and it's sentence of death because of an inability to live it, redeemed unto salvation by faith. With Christ's Law written upon our hearts, we have what is SUPERIOR to the Law of Moses because the Lord is then our Source from whom the Law came. The Law is far more profound and empowering for us to live God's Law that is written upon our hearts.

In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, it says that God's law is not too difficult to obey and that obedience brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse. God is the source of the Mosaic Law and changing the medium on which His law is written from stone to our hearts does not change the content of what it instructs us to do. Paul was speaking about giving up his rights to meet people where they were at, not about sinning in order to meet sinners because that would have completely undermined his message to them. In 1 Corinthians 9:21, Paul said in a parallel statement that he was not outside God's law, but under the Law of Christ, so he equated the Mosaic Law with the Law of Christ.

Those who take pride in following the Law of Moses as best they can, go for it. I'm not here to take that from such. [1Jo 2:27 KJV] 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

So, you folks who chase after the Law of Moses, I pitty you, for that Anointing within us, He is the Source from whom we draw life and direction for holy living.

Jr

The Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law (Ezekiel 36:26-27), not the role of leading us to rebel against God.

1 John 2:29 If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that everyone who practices righteousness has been born of him.

The Mosaic Law is God's instructions for what it looks like to practice righteousness and to be born of Him.