Mosaic covenant only applies to Israel

[billwald]

Nothing in Exo thru Deut applies the Mosaic Covenant to gentiles in Chicago. Nothing specifies/determines/describes one's status in the next life.

 

[Epiphoskei]

Sort of. Nothing in the Mosaic Covenent matters for salvation of anyone, Jew or Gentile. It points to Christ.

Christ and his covenant determines one's resurrection.

 

[billwald]

One's election or lack of same determines one's resurrection. <G>

 

[billwald]

One's election or lack of same determines one's resurrection. <G>

 

[Epiphoskei]

Granted, as long as we recongize that election is effectually salvific through the Lord's redemptive work in his covenant.

 

[squint]

Nothing in Exo thru Deut applies the Mosaic Covenant to gentiles in Chicago. Nothing specifies/determines/describes one's status in the next life.

Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

There are no exceptions in every mouth and all the world. I presume that every person in Chicago has a mouth and are included in "all the world."

 

[wayseer]

The Noahide Laws apply to all those living outside the nation of Israel - which includes Chicago and Maryborough.

Prohibition against idolatry
Prohibition against blasphemy
Prohibition against murder
Prohibition against theft
Prohibition against sexual immorality
Prohibition against eating the limb of a living animal
Establish courts of justice.

Gen 9:4-6 and Gen 2:16

Those non-Jews who keep these commandments are said to have attained the status of High Priest.

There are extensions of these Law outlined in the Talmud (Rabbinic Judaism), though they may be questioned.

The rainbow (Gen 9) is often associated with these Laws.

 

[squint]

The Noahide Laws apply to all those living outside the nation of Israel - which includes Chicago and Maryborough.

Meaning only Jewish people or ALL people?

Prohibition against idolatry
Prohibition against blasphemy
Prohibition against murder
Prohibition against theft
Prohibition against sexual immorality
Prohibition against eating the limb of a living animal
Establish courts of justice.

Gen 9:4-6 and Gen 2:16

Those non-Jews who keep these commandments are said to have attained the status of High Priest.

It would appear that many of the Noahide laws are also replicated and extended/enhanced in the Law(s) of Moses, also affirmed and enhanced by Jesus in the Gospels.

There are extensions of these Law outlined in the Talmud (Rabbinic Judaism), though they may be questioned.

The rainbow (Gen 9) is often associated with these Laws.

The law was always meant to be against lawlessness in any form. To "show us" what is "with us." That would be "lawlessness within the heart(s.) Paul affirmed this fact in many ways, even after the "scales" fell from his own eyes.

enjoy!

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[billwald]

St Paul never specifies to what "law" he refers. Submitted as a thesis or as a manuscript, his writings would be rejected.

 

[squint]

St Paul never specifies to what "law" he refers. Submitted as a thesis or as a manuscript, his writings would be rejected.

Your correct observation is excellent.

The difficulty in understanding "the Law" is that there ARE for no uncertain facts BLATANT CONTRADICTIONS...

On one hand Paul states that he "serves" the Law, "upholds" the Law etc. and in the next breath states "we" are not UNDER the Law...

YET "we" fulfill the entirety of the Laws commands by loving our neighbors as ourselves.

This decades long study for me has led me to believe that the only way to "harmonize" the matters is to understand that the Law serves MULTIPLE FUNCTIONS...

A friend of mine shared this concept with me a few years back, and the premise seemed exceptionally sound upon study of the matter, as the tension between LAW and GRACE is a hard fought battle amongst believers of ALL kinds.

Jesus showed the presence of the devil and his messengers to be WITH mankind, and the Law is UNTO THEM in MANKIND as "the lawless" ones who are with and upon us all in various ways...

yet "we" as believers are called unto the higher, weightier purposes of the Law which is the True Spirit of THE LAW...

That would be the intangible portions...Love, Mercy, Forgiveness as we have so received from His Spirit upon us.

In the analysis, both portions of Paul's seeming contradictions are FULLY TRUE and FULLY APPLICABLE...

The "law of sin" is found when we apply the Law in a fleshly manner, which reveals the "presence of indwelling sin" to be IN OUR FLESH and which same is OF THE DEVIL...

But WE as believers and God's children are NOT the devil...and therefore WE are not under the fleshly requirements of THE LAW but under the protection and dispensation of the weightier matters of Law...Love, Mercy and Forgiveness.

anyway...for what it's worth, the matters of LAW do NOT have to be a one or another situation and in that I hope ALL mankind find greater understandings and ALL devilkind find their judgment and condemnation which the Law was meant to bring to ALL of them...who are "with us" but are NOT us...

enjoy!

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[billwald]

I agree that the Noahic Covenant obligates all humans. Clams and oysters are not animals (I hope). They sure taste good live.

 

[ddub85]

@ Billwald

Why did you leave out Genesis?

God Bless!

 

[ahiggs]

have you ever thought that the law was not ment to be a burden, Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law not do away with it. not one jot or tittle will pass away till all is fulfilled. that and aren't we suppose to be grafted in to the olive branch of judea?

 

[cyberlizard]

i thank God every friday evening that even though i was born a stranger to the covenants of promise (eph.2) by being born a gentile, i thank him that in Jesus I have been allowed to partake of them (eph.2)

Steve

p.s. do i work to be saved - NO. Do the saved work - YES.

Remember all scripture (i.e. OT) is useful for training in righteousness (Tim)

 

[billwald]

>Why did you leave out Genesis?

Because it can be argued that the covenants in Genesis are not a part of the Mosaic Covenant. Just because St Paul didn't seem to know the difference . . . .

 

[billwald]

Agree that the Noahic Covenant applies to all humans.

>YET "we" fulfill the entirety of the Laws commands by loving our neighbors as ourselves.

Agree! The "WE" are those who try to be good neighbors. They are "working out their salvation" (even if they never heard of Jesus).<G>

 

[billwald]

The Writer:

The point should be that finding a law specified in more than one legal document does not imply that the documents are identical or of equal authority or application. Austria had a law against murder before Columbus was born. This does not imply that Americans are obligated by Austrian law.

 

[rob64]

I know I got here kind of late, but, so you just drop the subject, and no more replys?

 

[squint]

The Writer:

The point should be that finding a law specified in more than one legal document does not imply that the documents are identical or of equal authority or application. Austria had a law against murder before Columbus was born. This does not imply that Americans are obligated by Austrian law.

If you did murder a person in Austria you would CERTAINLY find yourself under that Law, Austrian or American or other ANY other nationality OR being "a christian."

The "lawlessness" in the flesh of any person remains UNDER the Law, and that would be as UNDER the Laws of the O.T. Lawlessness is an ANTI-spiritual working IN THE FLESH that THE LAWS of Moses were against, meant to reveal, even EMPOWER so that "it's presence" within the flesh is BEYOND DENIAL.

Romans 5:
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound.

Romans 7:
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence.

Paul found a most important principle BY AND THROUGH THE LAW. Therefore Paul UPHELD the Law of MOSES exactly for the purposes it was intended for.

Paul found that IN THE FLESH, by following the LAWS of the O.T. in a FLESHLY MANNER the very SIN he was trying to avoid he found THE LAWS were EMPOWERING SIN and working SINS POWER IN HIS FLESH AND MIND.

1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

Paul calls this discovery "the law of sin" which is detailed in brief above in the scriptures wherein he depicts SINS WORKINGS in relation to be ACTIVATED by THE LAW. The Law is INVIOLATE in this working and it is so TO THIS VERY MOMENT. Jesus Himself said The Law will NOT pass away and IT WON'T.

The Law was ALWAYS meant to DIVIDE and DISCERN the existence of SIN INDWELLING our flesh so that EVERY MOUTH would be STOPPED and the WHOLE WORLD would become GUILTY before God. This is a UNIVERSAL ACTION of THE LAWS of Moses and will work in the SAME WAY when applied to the FLESH of ANY PERSON, again to this day. This is the FLESHLY APPLICATION of the LAWS of MOSES.

There is also a SPIRITUAL APPLICATION of those SAME LAWS which of course is an entirely DIFFERENT matter and an entirely DIFFERENT working of God in His Word, THE LAW.

The Laws of Moses are AGAINST lawlessness and FOR the children of God. One Word-2 Workings. The same observations will apply to ANY of God's Laws from the Garden through Jesus' delivery and AMPLIFICATION of those LAWS.

enjoy!

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[RND]

Nothing in Exo thru Deut applies the Mosaic Covenant to gentiles in Chicago. Nothing specifies/determines/describes one's status in the next life.

So then I guess homosexuality, inappropriate behavior with animals and necrophilia are OK for the Gentiles but not for the Jews?