Mortal sin, in a state of grace, and other things

[Vedant]

Please comment on these things. I may have correct or incorrect understanding, but I want to learn more.

Some things I have heard/read:




If one commits something that is grave (what does this grave mean?), commited a wrong with full knowledge of its wrongness, and committed it with full will, it is a mortal sin.

To break communion with the church is to commit a mortal sin.

To return back into communion with the church after commiting a mortal sin is by the Sacrament of Confession.

One who has commited a mortal sin and does not confess to a priest cannot receive the Eucharist. If he or she does receive the Eucharist, it is sacrilege and invalid.

To be in a state of grace is to not have any unconfessed mortal sins.

If one dies on Earth with unconfessed mortal sin, he/she goes to hell.

The Catholic church cannot make any judgement on who is or isn't saved.

It may be possible for non-Christians to receive Christ's sanctifying grace, but the fullest truth is found within the Catholic church.

It is better to die right after Confession rather than after a week, because more venial sin means more time in purgatory.




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If you could please comment, enhance, or fix my understanding of these things, that would be appreciated. The one that bothers me the most is the 6th one. Thank you!

 

[Look Homeward Anglican]

Grave matter is anything that violates one of the ten commandments; mortally sinful acts find themselves falling under one of those ten laws of God, and are committed with full and free consent of the will, with full knowledge.

To break communion with the Church can be a mortal sin, but is not always. Some, through no fault of their own or through ignorance, who separate themselves from the Church are not as culpable owing to the circumstances.

Some kinds of excommunication cannot be resolved by the Sacrament of Confession alone; they may also need the approval of the presiding bishop -- and in some cases, only the pope can receive the one back into the Church.

One should not receive the Holy Eucharist with unconfessed mortal sin (not in a state of grace.) It does not render the sacrament invalid, but its reception would be illicit on the part of the communicant, and would incur further mortal sin provided all three conditions for mortal sin are met.

If one dies on Earth with unconfessed mortal sin, it is still up to God and no one else whether that person goes to Hell or not. God's way of judgement is beyond our understanding. This is why we pray for the departed souls, that God may have mercy on them and that their passage through purgatory will be healing for them.

The Catholic faith holds all of the ordinary means for obtaining grace and maintaining a right relationship with God, but we sinners in it cannot know or speculate on the population of Hell. We can only use the means God has given us to strive for personal holiness and to take as many as we can with us through as narrow a gate as possible towards Heaven.

It is entirely possible for each person God has made to be reconciled to him; that is his desire. But the degrees to which we are capable of desiring him vary based on many factors -- not the least of which is whether we have found the fullness of faith as revealed to us by Jesus and handed down from his apostles. Not all people receive the truth, so we trust in his mercy and pray for all people.

It would seem to be desireable to die right after confession, yes, but venial sin, which is not mortal, does not destroy all grace in us as does mortal sin. Good question.

 

[a_ntv]

It is better to die right after Confession rather than after a week, because more venial sin means more time in purgatory.

The purgatory is not for "paying" the venial sins, but to further purify you in order to see Christ face to face.

But all statments you wrote down are very lmitative.
Life as a catholic is NOT to jump from a confession to an other, to be free from mortal sins.

To life as a catholic is to have Christ at the first point, is to follow Christ, to take your own cross, to became Christ like

 

[Vedant]

*rebump*

I am finding contradictions in the Catholic church's teaching that are bothering me.

Many have confirmed that dying on Earth with mortal sin sends a person to hell. I still don't like this teaching. Then Catholic church says it cannot make judgement on who is in hell or who is in heaven. The flip side is, how does the Catholic church know that the saints we pray to are in heaven?

 

[Globalnomad]

*rebump*

I am finding contradictions in the Catholic church's teaching that are bothering me.

Many have confirmed that dying on Earth with mortal sin sends a person to hell. I still don't like this teaching. Then Catholic church says it cannot make judgement on who is in hell or who is in heaven. The flip side is, how does the Catholic church know that the saints we pray to are in heaven?

Vedant, the point is that neither the Catholic Church nor anyone else can know whether somebody was really "with mortal sin" when he died. Even Hitler, for all we know, might have done everthing he did - including his suicide - out of a sincere, invincibly ignorant conscience. Considering all the "extenuating circumstances", many of us believe that relatively few people actually go to Hell. But let's not emphasise this too much - many people (including myself) NEED the fear of Hell to keep us on the straight and narrow. (Unfortunately.)

In the end, mortal sin can only be defined in a circular way: a state of sin grave enough, in God's eyes, to take away the sinner's possibility of salvation.

The question about saints is a different one. How do we know? Basically, just the same way we trust that the Church's doctrines are true - because it makes sense that the Holy Spirit would keep her from error in this regard.

 

[black_rain]

The purgatory is not for "paying" the venial sins, but to further purify you in order to see Christ face to face.

So if purgatory is only a place of purification, why do people believe that souls are in purgatory for different amounts of time, or possibly not at all?

 

[a_ntv]

So if purgatory is only a place of purification, why do people believe that souls are in purgatory for different amounts of time, or possibly not at all?

By first, "Time" is simply a metaphora because Puratory is out-from-the-time.

Consider Bill dies. Bill arrives to the heaven and looks directly in face Christ. Can Bill bear to see Christ in all His brightness?. There are three logical situations:
- Bill cant bear such a brightnessen, he goes blind and he escapes ways: that is the hell
- Bill is already so used to such brightnessen that he can stand in front of Christ: that heaven
- Bill understands that he can stay, but he need some time to get used of the light (like you at wake-up): that is purgatory. How much time to stand with open eyes? It depends from how much in live you are used to Christ.

I often ask myself: If now I see Christ face to face, can I bear His stare?

 

[Vedant]

Okay, this is the answer I got from RCIA.

Dying with mortal sin is akin to the unforgiveable sin. It doesn't mean that if a person murdered someone with full knowledge of its wrongness and full consent of the will and then died before confessing it goes to hell. It means that a person who refuses God and dies with that refusal is condemned by his or her own free will. The person also said that sins are almost never mortal, but often are serious. This is contrary to what many people on OBOB have posted.

The point of confession is to witness to the community God's forgiveness, not to give forgiveness. It doesn't mean that you need Confession to get forgiveness. All you need is God for forgiveness. If for some reason you can't confess to the community, such as not having a priest to confess to, that doesn't mean you aren't forgiven. It means that when it is possible, you should tell the priest what damage you did to the community by your actions and the priest reconfirms that God forgives you. Finally, all sin, mortal, grave, venial, or whatever should be confessed. What is absolutely necessary, however, is to confess a full turning away from God and a want to be back, somewhat like a re-confirmation of a person's faith. But all sin should be confessed, whatever it is.

Thoughts?

 

[dare2ask]

I'm curious to know how catholics now how many mortal sins there are, how to make sure you don't commit one, and what happens to most catholics who do not go to mass every sunday...thanks

 

[Fantine]

When I was a child in grammar school (probably in the early 60's) we were always told that mortal sin was a total turning away from God. That made sense to me, because, of course, if "hell" was the punishment for mortal sin, it would have to be a total turning away from God, and there would be hope for those who had turned away from God even by 99%.

Thing is, I know hardly anyone who could be considered in that category. Someone who is totally bad. Someone whose behavior is totally unforgivable (and if I could forgive it, and God is better than me, than how could God not?)

I understand this is a liberal position, so I reiterate that the basis of this believe comes from the teaching I received from the Dominican sisters in the 1960's.

And I understand that some might interpret that differently (e.g. that missing Mass one Sunday is a total turning away from God.)

Which of those positions makes more sense to you?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Vedant

Dying with mortal sin is akin to the unforgiveable sin. It doesn't mean that if a person murdered someone with full knowledge of its wrongness and full consent of the will and then died before confessing it goes to hell. It means that a person who refuses God and dies with that refusal is condemned by his or her own free will.

Correct, the person who commits a sin with full knowledge and consent, and refuses God, condemns himself.

The point of confession is to witness to the community God's forgiveness, not to give forgiveness.

The point of the Sacrament of Confession is to be reconciled to the Church. When we commit a sin but repent to God, he forgives us. However, the damage done by our sin is against the Church as well as our souls. We therefore go to receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation, in order to be forgiven for our sins against the Church. Its why the sacrament is called, "Reconciliation."

It doesn't mean that you need Confession to get forgiveness.

You must confess to God to get forgiveness, and you must go to Confession to be reconciled with the Church.

All you need is God for forgiveness.

As the Catholic Catechism of the Catholic Church states, "Only God Forgives Sin." However, as I stated above, you need to be reconciled to the Church, and this can be done only through the Sacrament of Confession.

If for some reason you can't confess to the community, such as not having a priest to confess to, that doesn't mean you aren't forgiven. It means that when it is possible, you should tell the priest what damage you did to the community by your actions and the priest reconfirms that God forgives you.

We don't confess to the Community, but to the Priest, who is head of the Community.

Finally, all sin, mortal, grave, venial, or whatever should be confessed. What is absolutely necessary, however, is to confess a full turning away from God and a want to be back, somewhat like a re-confirmation of a person's faith. But all sin should be confessed, whatever it is.

Correct.

In Christ
Jim