LDS Mormons teach The Garden of Eden in Missouri

[drstevej]

Yeah, but my buddy David Limbaugh still lives there maybe he and his kids can find some curelom bones.

 

[Lazarus Short]

View attachment 257214

Here's a pic or two

I see palm trees in the first photo, so I seriously doubt it is in Missouri.

 

[Peter1000]

Yeah, but my buddy David Limbaugh still lives there maybe he and his kids can find some curelom bones.

Tell him to be sure to look around those little pockets of what looks like tar pits. He will probably find one easily. Good hunting.

 

[Peter1000]

I see palm trees in the first photo, so I seriously doubt it is in Missouri.

I'm not sure that tree on the right side of the picture is a palm tree, so I believe drsteve if he says it is Missouri.

 

[drstevej]

so I believe drsteve if he says it is Missouri.

FTR: I never said it was; I only asked if it could be there. You affirmed it could.

 

[dzheremi]

Can anyone here tell me, with a straight face, what "Adam-Ondi-Ahman" means? It looks like a construction which should be analyzable by its component parts (like any language, if it actually existed/i.e., if this isn't another "Reformed Egyptian"-type scam), so I want to know, for linguistic rather than religious reasons. Past LDS leaders have claimed that it means "Valley of God, where Adam dwelt". so someone, please, give us a gloss of "Adam-Ondi-Ahman". I'll grant that "where Adam dwelt" seems more plausible as a direct translation (since it already contains one of the parts of the phrase), with "Valley of God" being a more poetic, religious-y name for it, but again, if it's supposed to mean something, you're going to have to show it.

So Adam is (obviously) "Adam", so is Ondi "to dwell" or "dwell-3rd Person-Masculine-Singular" (he dwells) and Ahman some kind of past tense marker (-ed), with the place itself being implied, e.g. "Adam-He dwells-past tense (there)", or is Ondi a locative case marker (~ at, in, etc.) and Ahman place/valley, so more like "Adam-located valley"? Such things exist in many languages, where you can say "place of so and so" to mean "place where so and so was/rests". There's a tree in Egypt which is popularly known as the tree of the Virgin (Mary), in a small suburb of Cairo called El Matareya (supposedly from the Latin Mater, "Mother", in reference to the Virgin Mary's presence there) where legend has it that the Holy Family stopped on their flight to Egypt. It has been a place of pilgrimage for Coptic Christians for centuries, so I don't at all mean to sound like I'm mocking Mormons for believing that Adam once was in this valley, and then naming the valley after that. The question is for me, as a linguist, what it's supposed to actually mean in this 'Adamic language', since some of your leaders apparently claim to know what it means. I can't see how, so I'd like someone to come up with a plausible, scientifically accurate way of claiming that, in the same way that I can say that shajara el 'aliya el muqaddesa (another name for this particular tree) means "the tree of the Holy Family" because shajara means 'tree', el 'aliya means "family", and so on.

I'm tired of these Mormon claims about things that invade perfectly fine scientific disciplines like mine with unscientific belief that is nonetheless stated with confidence as though it is scientific fact and now Mormons know all these things that we don't when really all they've done is imbibed every nonsense statement of their leaders uncritically, from Joseph Smith on down. How many languages do these people get to dream up and still expect to be taken seriously? Professionally speaking, the answer is zero, and yet they persist and wonder why nobody will take them seriously.

So what does "Adam-Ondi-Ahman" mean? And how on earth do you know it's not just gibberish? My vote is for gibberish until shown otherwise by disinterested (non-apologist) linguists, not on BYU/FARMS/LDS payrolls.

 

[He is the way]

Can anyone here tell me, with a straight face, what "Adam-Ondi-Ahman" means? It looks like a construction which should be analyzable by its component parts (like any language, if it actually existed/i.e., if this isn't another "Reformed Egyptian"-type scam), so I want to know, for linguistic rather than religious reasons. Past LDS leaders have claimed that it means "Valley of God, where Adam dwelt". so someone, please, give us a gloss of "Adam-Ondi-Ahman". I'll grant that "where Adam dwelt" seems more plausible as a direct translation (since it already contains one of the parts of the phrase), with "Valley of God" being a more poetic, religious-y name for it, but again, if it's supposed to mean something, you're going to have to show it.

So Adam is (obviously) "Adam", so is Ondi "to dwell" or "dwell-3rd Person-Masculine-Singular" (he dwells) and Ahman some kind of past tense marker (-ed), with the place itself being implied, e.g. "Adam-He dwells-past tense (there)", or is Ondi a locative case marker (~ at, in, etc.) and Ahman place/valley, so more like "Adam-located valley"? Such things exist in many languages, where you can say "place of so and so" to mean "place where so and so was/rests". There's a tree in Egypt which is popularly known as the tree of the Virgin (Mary), in a small suburb of Cairo called El Matareya (supposedly from the Latin Mater, "Mother", in reference to the Virgin Mary's presence there) where legend has it that the Holy Family stopped on their flight to Egypt. It has been a place of pilgrimage for Coptic Christians for centuries, so I don't at all mean to sound like I'm mocking Mormons for believing that Adam once was in this valley, and then naming the valley after that. The question is for me, as a linguist, what it's supposed to actually mean in this 'Adamic language', since some of your leaders apparently claim to know what it means. I can't see how, so I'd like someone to come up with a plausible, scientifically accurate way of claiming that, in the same way that I can say that shajara el 'aliya el muqaddesa (another name for this particular tree) means "the tree of the Holy Family" because shajara means 'tree', el 'aliya means "family", and so on.

I'm tired of these Mormon claims about things that invade perfectly fine scientific disciplines like mine with unscientific belief that is nonetheless stated with confidence as though it is scientific fact and now Mormons know all these things that we don't when really all they've done is imbibed every nonsense statement of their leaders uncritically, from Joseph Smith on down. How many languages do these people get to dream up and still expect to be taken seriously? Professionally speaking, the answer is zero, and yet they persist and wonder why nobody will take them seriously.

So what does "Adam-Ondi-Ahman" mean? And how on earth do you know it's not just gibberish? My vote is for gibberish until shown otherwise by disinterested (non-apologist) linguists, not on BYU/FARMS/LDS payrolls.

Adam-ondi-Ahman is the place where Adam blessed his righteous posterity three years before he died (D&C 107:53–56) and where he will come before the time of the Second Coming (D&C 116).

 

[dzheremi]

Adam-ondi-Ahman is the place where Adam blessed his righteous posterity three years before he died (D&C 107:53–56) and where he will come before the time of the Second Coming (D&C 116).

That's not what I'm looking for.

What do the words "Adam-Ondi-Ahman" translate to? A word-for-word gloss, as I demonstrated with shajara el 'aliya el muqaddesa, where each word actually means something, performs a grammatical function (as a noun, adjective, genitive marker, etc.), forms part of a larger construction/clause, etc. Not a vague, poetic, nonsense non-answer. Your past leaders have claimed that it translates to a few different phrases, as given at the wiki link regarding the name. Since they claimed it, and I am in the position to evaluate that claim should any of you be willing to back it up, I'd like to know exactly how it is that they know what they claim to know about the supposed language that Adam spoke.

And if you can't answer, just say so, but don't waste my time with things that aren't actual translations.

 

[He is the way]

That's not what I'm looking for.

What do the words "Adam-Ondi-Ahman" translate to? A word-for-word gloss, as I demonstrated with shajara el 'aliya el muqaddesa, where each word actually means something, performs a grammatical function (as a noun, adjective, genitive marker, etc.), forms part of a larger construction/clause, etc. Not a vague, poetic, nonsense non-answer. Your past leaders have claimed that it translates to a few different phrases, as given at the wiki link regarding the name. Since they claimed it, and I am in the position to evaluate that claim should any of you be willing to back it up, I'd like to know exactly how it is that they know what they claim to know about the supposed language that Adam spoke.

And if you can't answer, just say so, but don't waste my time with things that aren't actual translations.

As far as I know, Joseph Smith gave no further revelation about Adam-Ondi-Ahman. Since the name was reveled to him, it would be up to him to make any further comment about it.

 

[Peter1000]

Can anyone here tell me, with a straight face, what "Adam-Ondi-Ahman" means? It looks like a construction which should be analyzable by its component parts (like any language, if it actually existed/i.e., if this isn't another "Reformed Egyptian"-type scam), so I want to know, for linguistic rather than religious reasons. Past LDS leaders have claimed that it means "Valley of God, where Adam dwelt". so someone, please, give us a gloss of "Adam-Ondi-Ahman". I'll grant that "where Adam dwelt" seems more plausible as a direct translation (since it already contains one of the parts of the phrase), with "Valley of God" being a more poetic, religious-y name for it, but again, if it's supposed to mean something, you're going to have to show it.

So Adam is (obviously) "Adam", so is Ondi "to dwell" or "dwell-3rd Person-Masculine-Singular" (he dwells) and Ahman some kind of past tense marker (-ed), with the place itself being implied, e.g. "Adam-He dwells-past tense (there)", or is Ondi a locative case marker (~ at, in, etc.) and Ahman place/valley, so more like "Adam-located valley"? Such things exist in many languages, where you can say "place of so and so" to mean "place where so and so was/rests". There's a tree in Egypt which is popularly known as the tree of the Virgin (Mary), in a small suburb of Cairo called El Matareya (supposedly from the Latin Mater, "Mother", in reference to the Virgin Mary's presence there) where legend has it that the Holy Family stopped on their flight to Egypt. It has been a place of pilgrimage for Coptic Christians for centuries, so I don't at all mean to sound like I'm mocking Mormons for believing that Adam once was in this valley, and then naming the valley after that. The question is for me, as a linguist, what it's supposed to actually mean in this 'Adamic language', since some of your leaders apparently claim to know what it means. I can't see how, so I'd like someone to come up with a plausible, scientifically accurate way of claiming that, in the same way that I can say that shajara el 'aliya el muqaddesa (another name for this particular tree) means "the tree of the Holy Family" because shajara means 'tree', el 'aliya means "family", and so on.

I'm tired of these Mormon claims about things that invade perfectly fine scientific disciplines like mine with unscientific belief that is nonetheless stated with confidence as though it is scientific fact and now Mormons know all these things that we don't when really all they've done is imbibed every nonsense statement of their leaders uncritically, from Joseph Smith on down. How many languages do these people get to dream up and still expect to be taken seriously? Professionally speaking, the answer is zero, and yet they persist and wonder why nobody will take them seriously.

So what does "Adam-Ondi-Ahman" mean? And how on earth do you know it's not just gibberish? My vote is for gibberish until shown otherwise by disinterested (non-apologist) linguists, not on BYU/FARMS/LDS payrolls.

Then your question will never be answered.

 

[Peter1000]

That's not what I'm looking for.

What do the words "Adam-Ondi-Ahman" translate to? A word-for-word gloss, as I demonstrated with shajara el 'aliya el muqaddesa, where each word actually means something, performs a grammatical function (as a noun, adjective, genitive marker, etc.), forms part of a larger construction/clause, etc. Not a vague, poetic, nonsense non-answer. Your past leaders have claimed that it translates to a few different phrases, as given at the wiki link regarding the name. Since they claimed it, and I am in the position to evaluate that claim should any of you be willing to back it up, I'd like to know exactly how it is that they know what they claim to know about the supposed language that Adam spoke.

And if you can't answer, just say so, but don't waste my time with things that aren't actual translations.

Adam is simple.
Ahman is from JS that says this is the name of God in the Adamic language.
ondi has to be something to do with "dwelling in the valley".

Adam dwelling in the valley of God.

No non-Mormon expert is going to be able to tell you anything. Sorry.

 

[dzheremi]

As far as I know, Joseph Smith gave no further revelation about Adam-Ondi-Ahman. Since the name was reveled to him, it would be up to him to make any further comment about it.

This is another nonsense answer that doesn't come close to meaning anything. Mormon apologetic answers really are an abysmal failure, and if you guys keep giving Joseph Smith more and more rope, he'll do nothing but continue to hang you all with it.

YHWH is a revealed name as well, and even it has a hypothesized etymology based on preexisting Hebrew forms, not made up gibberish.

 

[drstevej]

Three rare animals born at St. Louis Zoo

ST. LOUIS -- Three rare animals have been born at the St. Louis Zoo -- a snow leopard, a tapir and a giraffe -- zoo officials said Saturday.

 

[Peter1000]

Three rare animals born at St. Louis Zoo

ST. LOUIS -- Three rare animals have been born at the St. Louis Zoo -- a snow leopard, a tapir and a giraffe -- zoo officials said Saturday.

Darn, I was hoping you would have said a curelom was born there.

 

[Peter1000]

This is another nonsense answer that doesn't come close to meaning anything. Mormon apologetic answers really are an abysmal failure, and if you guys keep giving Joseph Smith more and more rope, he'll do nothing but continue to hang you all with it.

YHWH is a revealed name as well, and even it has a hypothesized etymology based on preexisting Hebrew forms, not made up gibberish.

If the Lord gives JS a peak of the life of A&E after Eden, but does not give him a landslide of information, that is your answer. Take it or leave it or argue with the Lord about how stingy he is with his information.

We take what we get and are thankful for that small peak that nobody else has been given.

 

[mmksparbud]

If the Lord gives JS a peak of the life of A&E after Eden, but does not give him a landslide of information, that is your answer. Take it or leave it or argue with the Lord about how stingy he is with his information.

We take what we get and are thankful for that small peak that nobody else has been given.

All the information is in His word. Try reading it without the false info provided by JS.

 

[Peter1000]

All the information is in His word. Try reading it without the false info provided by JS.

How do you know absolutely that JS made up false information? Is it because you have learned things differently, and have never thought of the things that JS says or your pastor has said?

The Lord gave Peter and the apostles keys and information that had not been known by the religious majority for hundreds of years, and it made the world so mad at them that the world killed them for it, just like JS was killed for his sayings too.

 

[mmksparbud]

How do you know absolutely that JS made up false information? Is it because you have learned things differently, and have never thought of the things that JS says or your pastor has said?

The Lord gave Peter and the apostles keys and information that had not been known by the religious majority for hundreds of years, and it made the world so mad at them that the world killed them for it, just like JS was killed for his sayings too.

He says nothing that is in accordance with the scriptures.
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

He was either given false info or he made it up. Our God always had a remnant who carried the truth. It's only your god that can't keep his word from disappearing. JS was killed for his polygomous views and other non-Christian views--it was a horribly wrong thing to do.

 

[Peter1000]

He says nothing that is in accordance with the scriptures.
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

He was either given false info or he made it up. Our God always had a remnant who carried the truth. It's only your god that can't keep his word from disappearing. JS was killed for his polygomous views and other non-Christian views--it was a horribly wrong thing to do.

I have heard many say not all of his words are in accordance with the scriptures, but I have not heard anyone but you say "he says nothing that is in accordance with the scriptures.

You obviously have not read all the words of JS.

 

[mmksparbud]

I have heard many say not all of his words are in accordance with the scriptures, but I have not heard anyone but you say "he says nothing that is in accordance with the scriptures.

You obviously have not read all the words of JS.

The problem is this---you can't be just a partial follower of His, you can't be just a partial prophet of His.
Isaiah doesn't say that if they agree partially with the scriptures, they have some light in them.

Isa_8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Even Satan can quote scripture. In fact, he knows them better than some preachers, and quoted it to Jesus--he quoted just the part he wanted. Doesn't make Satan a true prophet of God.
I may sound harsh---but it is imperative to know the One and only God, His Son, and His Holy Spirit--to know them---not just about them. An imposter can not get you to know the real Godhead, he can not get you into the presence of God. We have to be very critical of whom we follow.