LDS Mormons Say Jesus is Your Brother and Can Be Your Father, Too

Status
Not open for further replies.

Rescued One

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
Dec 12, 2002
35,529
6,408
Midwest
✟80,125.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
While the resurrection of the dead is certainly an integral part of the plan of salvation, and is unconditional and independent of men’s works, the term salvation as used in the scriptures does not mean physical resurrection alone. As Elder Bruce R. McConkie has pointed out, salvation is synonymous with exaltation:
Salvation in its true and full meaning is synonymous with exaltation or eternal life and consists in gaining an inheritance in the highest of the three heavens within the celestial kingdom. With few exceptions this is the salvation of which the scriptures speak. It is the salvation which the saints seek.” (Mormon Doctrine, 2nd ed., Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966, p. 670.)
Gerald N. Lund, Salvation, Ensign, April 1981
Salvation: - ensign
 
Upvote 0

Ken Rank

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 12, 2014
7,218
5,563
Winchester, KENtucky
✟308,985.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
But the Great Commission is to go forth and willfully seek those hearts that have been prepared by God to teach them truth. And what is that truth that we teach? That God became the man Jesus Christ and took our sins upon himself so we may be saved from our own destruction and the wiles of the devil through the new birth. What is taught is that simple. Further teaching deepens and strengthens faith.

We see things differently in some areas, Alex. Heresy at it's root means "force." If you look it up in Thayer or Liddel-Scott you'll see that the very first definition is "the act of taking, capture; to storm a city, to take by force" (hairesis - G139). It can also mean sect or choice. We have narrowed this word down to ALWAYS meaning choice in our modern religious culture. If somebody chooses a path different from my own, I might call them a heretic. But in the NT, I can show that heresy can mean a sect (Acts 15:5) and also where the idea of force, pushing a lie onto others...

2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.

Notice how they bring in destructive heresies, by stealth... force by stealth. But the thing is, it isn't in the definition of the word that is has to be a lie that is being forced, one can have the truth and be forcing it on others and be a heretic. Again, I realize that is not how we use the word in modern terms, but that is how it was taken by those Greek speaking Christians late in the first century and into the second. It was then, that the word began to narrow and heretics began to be killed for what they believed... but the truth is, the ones yielding the axes were the ones forcing themselves on the others, the heretics weren't the ones being killed, the heretics we the ones doing the killing.

My point with this is to say that if we push, force the gospel on others, we are heretics. John 6:44 says God draws a man unto Himself and while SOME OF US are sent ("Are all evangelists?" Paul asks, with the obvious answer being "NO!") most are not. And even if we are... we still must be FULLY discipled first. The idea that somebody gets "saved" and then is now licensed do go out and win souls shows the depth of our current state of immaturity in the body. EVERYONE is expected to be discipled first, TIME must pass so that we can apply the things we learn and THEN we go. Moses waited 40 years, the disciples walked with messiah for 3 full years and Paul, who studied at Beit Hillel, went away for 3 years BEFORE he came back to fully walk in his calling. Why? To learn and grow and apply so that one could be productive in their calling.

Going on a forum and telling somebody how wrong they are and how they are going to hell because of what they currently believe is going to draw them to God? That is the "good news?" I don't think so, sorry.

Phoebe has a God given ministry that she is reaching out to people that she has expert understanding on and you gave potshots of discouragement that undermined her efforts.

Perhaps she does... but God did not expect her to walk in that calling without being fully trained first. Nobody skips steps and the fact that she is on a public open forum telling them, unsolicited, that they are wrong and going to hell will NOT bring people any closer to the truth. A person finds when they seek, you don't force them to find.

You still have stated how many you have helped into the saving knowledge of Christ, and my comment stands: I see you as an armchair quarterback who is not in the game.

I have seen more Mormons and JW's pushed AWAY because of how we treat them that I think my comments in the first part of this post should be considered. As for being an armchair QB who isn't in the game... I find that rather humorous. You have no idea whether or not I am in the game nor what position I play. :) Perhaps do a little research before making such a statement.

My points stand... walk reflecting the Lord in your words and deeds and when God draws them and they begin to seek, teach them.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Jane_Doe
Upvote 0

withwonderingawe

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2015
3,592
510
71
Salem Ut
✟161,549.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
We see things differently in some areas, Alex. Heresy at it's root means "force." If you look it up in Thayer or Liddel-Scott you'll see that the very first definition is "the act of taking, capture; to storm a city, to take by force" (hairesis - G139). It can also mean sect or choice. We have narrowed this word down to ALWAYS meaning choice in our modern religious culture. If somebody chooses a path different from my own, I might call them a heretic. But in the NT, I can show that heresy can mean a sect (Acts 15:5) and also where the idea of force, pushing a lie onto others...

2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.

Notice how they bring in destructive heresies, by stealth... force by stealth. But the thing is, it isn't in the definition of the word that is has to be a lie that is being forced, one can have the truth and be forcing it on others and be a heretic. Again, I realize that is not how we use the word in modern terms, but that is how it was taken by those Greek speaking Christians late in the first century and into the second. It was then, that the word began to narrow and heretics began to be killed for what they believed... but the truth is, the ones yielding the axes were the ones forcing themselves on the others, the heretics weren't the ones being killed, the heretics we the ones doing the killing.

My point with this is to say that if we push, force the gospel on others, we are heretics. John 6:44 says God draws a man unto Himself and while SOME OF US are sent ("Are all evangelists?" Paul asks, with the obvious answer being "NO!") most are not. And even if we are... we still must be FULLY discipled first. The idea that somebody gets "saved" and then is now licensed do go out and win souls shows the depth of our current state of immaturity in the body. EVERYONE is expected to be discipled first, TIME must pass so that we can apply the things we learn and THEN we go. Moses waited 40 years, the disciples walked with messiah for 3 full years and Paul, who studied at Beit Hillel, went away for 3 years BEFORE he came back to fully walk in his calling. Why? To learn and grow and apply so that one could be productive in their calling.

Going on a forum and telling somebody how wrong they are and how they are going to hell because of what they currently believe is going to draw them to God? That is the "good news?" I don't think so, sorry.



Perhaps she does... but God did not expect her to walk in that calling without being fully trained first. Nobody skips steps and the fact that she is on a public open forum telling them, unsolicited, that they are wrong and going to hell will NOT bring people any closer to the truth. A person finds when they seek, you don't force them to find.



I have seen more Mormons and JW's pushed AWAY because of how we treat them that I think my comments in the first part of this post should be considered. As for being an armchair QB who isn't in the game... I find that rather humorous. You have no idea whether or not I am in the game nor what position I play. :) Perhaps do a little research before making such a statement.

My points stand... walk reflecting the Lord in your words and deeds and when God draws them and they begin to seek, teach them.

As a kid and the God Maker movie came through town, I was puzzled, why would Christians behave this way? Yes it turned me off.
It converted no one I know of to Evangelicalism but several Mormon baptism occurred after it left town. It caused a number of people to ask more questions and to read the Book of Mormon.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Jane_Doe
Upvote 0

Rescued One

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
Dec 12, 2002
35,529
6,408
Midwest
✟80,125.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Perhaps she does... but God did not expect her to walk in that calling without being fully trained first. Nobody skips steps and the fact that she is on a public open forum telling them, unsolicited, that they are wrong and going to hell will NOT bring people any closer to the truth. A person finds when they seek, you don't force them to find.

Who told anyone that they're going to hell? Who are you accusing?

I have seen more Mormons and JW's pushed AWAY because of how we treat them that I think my comments in the first part of this post should be considered.

Who treats Mormons and JW's poorly? Who let you see peoples' hearts and motives? Who gives a human power over God?

My points stand... walk reflecting the Lord in your words and deeds and when God draws them and they begin to seek, teach them.

That method isn't found in my Bible. If the Father decides to give someone to Christ is He going to sit back and say, "Oh, no! Sophronia ruined my chances of saving that person!"

Did God tell you to judge other Christians?

Address only the content of the post and not the poster
 
Upvote 0

Ken Rank

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 12, 2014
7,218
5,563
Winchester, KENtucky
✟308,985.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Who told anyone that they're going to hell? Who are you accusing?

I was talking to Alex, not you... and specifically talking about those who try to scare others into a relationship with God.

Who treats Mormons and JW's poorly? Who let you see peoples' hearts and motives? Who gives a human power over God?

Oh, so many that I have seen throughout the years. A young man who lives near us just went on his mission. His neighbors showered him with tracts about the heresy of Mormonism and how he is going to hell if he goes on his mission. I have seen this COUNTLESS times and it is not a method that works for anything but puffing oneself up.

That method isn't found in my Bible. If the Father decides to give someone to Christ is He going to sit back and say, "Oh, no! Sophronia ruined my chances of saving that person!"

Yes, that method is in Scripture. The "Go" in the Great Commission is a participle (going) and is passive, it is not in command form. I could quote Peter who said to give an answer to anyone who ASKS (and other verses like that) but it doesn't matter. You seem to think you have been elevated to some special position so you wouldn't hear me if I shared 100 verses.

Did God tell you to judge other Christians?

This comment all but proves the point I was making to Alex about the need to be discipled fully and get to a place where one can apply what they learn. How? Simply, I wasn't judging you or anyone else... I was judging METHODS. Not once did it even cross my mind to judge the person... it was how people go about trying to win others to Christ that I addressed, consistently, in each and every post I made.

Address only the content of the post and not the poster

That is exactly what I did. But I will leave you alone, you are clearly agitated and unable to have a discussion.
 
Upvote 0

Rescued One

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
Dec 12, 2002
35,529
6,408
Midwest
✟80,125.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
I was talking to Alex, not you... and specifically talking about those who try to scare others into a relationship with God.

I'm sorry. Do you want me to silently ignore what you said about me? I could do that, but you're telling me that I can't talk to you about it because you were talking to Alex.
Alex said:
Phoebe has a God given ministry that she is reaching out to people that she has expert understanding on and you gave potshots of discouragement that undermined her efforts.

Your reply:
Perhaps she does... but God did not expect her to walk in that calling without being fully trained first. Nobody skips steps and the fact that she is on a public open forum telling them, unsolicited, that they are wrong and going to hell will NOT bring people any closer to the truth. A person finds when they seek, you don't force them to find.

Fully trained? By you?

Going on a forum and telling somebody how wrong they are and how they are going to hell because of what they currently believe is going to draw them to God? That is the "good news?" I don't think so, sorry.

Who did that?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Upvote 0

Jane_Doe

Well-Known Member
Jun 12, 2015
6,658
1,043
115
✟100,321.00
Faith
Mormon
(I am specifically not naming any names here, but talking about many experience through my life)
Who told anyone that they're going to hell?
I have been told countless times by Creedal Christians that I'm going to Hell, including on CF. I have been compared to a dog eating poop, I have been told many times I'm walking off a cliff, had my relationship with Christ denied, had people lie about my faith to others, etc.
Who treats Mormons and JW's poorly?
Posts that do the things above are people treating other individuals poorly.
That method isn't found in my Bible.
It's Matthew 5:16
 
Upvote 0

Ken Rank

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 12, 2014
7,218
5,563
Winchester, KENtucky
✟308,985.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Fully trained? By you?

By those who understand that others only find when they seek, hear answers to questions they have actually asked and that until they seek or ask... you live reflecting the character attributes of the one we serve until HE draws them per John 6:44.

Be blessed... I won't bother you again.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Jane_Doe
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Ken Rank

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 12, 2014
7,218
5,563
Winchester, KENtucky
✟308,985.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
You don't know my abilities.
The fact that you rely on "my abilities" proves my point. This isn't about you and what a great job you can do... this is about faith, hearing God and doing as He directs. It is HIM through us and NEVER US and when we think it is us and that we have abilities that matter, we are about to fall.
 
Upvote 0

Rescued One

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
Dec 12, 2002
35,529
6,408
Midwest
✟80,125.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
The fact that you rely on "my abilities" proves my point. This isn't about you and what a great job you can do... this is about faith, hearing God and doing as He directs. It is HIM through us and NEVER US and when we think it is us and that we have abilities that matter, we are about to fall.

I never said that I rely on my abilities. You said I'm unable to have a discussion. I told you that you don't know my abilities. You also don't know how much I do rely on God.

You are the one running away from the discussion.
 
Upvote 0

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
71
✟124,865.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Who told anyone that they're going to hell? Who are you accusing?



Who treats Mormons and JW's poorly? Who let you see peoples' hearts and motives? Who gives a human power over God?



That method isn't found in my Bible.
If the Father decides to give someone to Christ is He going to sit back and say, "Oh, no! Sophronia ruined my chances of saving that person!"

Did God tell you to judge other Christians?

Address only the content of the post and not the poster

That method isn't found in my Bible.

You better throw away your bible, because it is translated incorrectly.

As a Mormon who is being taught by you about my religion, I enjoy the discussion, but your knowledge of Mormonism is a little off, that is why I have to repeatedly correct you. But you are OK to keep telling me the way it is. I have a thick skin and do not get offended easily. However, contention is not of God, so we must always avoid a contentious discussion as much as possible. Thank you.
 
Upvote 0

Bumble Bee

Disciplemaker
Nov 2, 2007
27,649
5,388
33
Held together by Jesus and coffee
✟698,309.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
MOD HAT ON
This thread has been permanently closed due to flaming and off topic posts. Please review our sitewide rules and remember to post civil dialogue relevant to the original post in future threads.
MOD HAT OFF
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Status
Not open for further replies.