LDS Mormons Say Jesus is Your Brother and Can Be Your Father, Too

[AlexDTX]

LDS typically use the term "Elohim" for the Father. The Son is a different person than the Father. Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the 100% divine, Jehovah incarnate. The Son of God is equally as righteous, good, powerful, glorious, etc as the Father-- they are ONE after all. The Son does bow to the Father and call Him "my God"

Here is where different meanings are used for the same words. Elohim means the totality of God, not just one part of God, of which we call the "Father". When Jesus called him "Father" and "my God" he was speaking as a created man born from the virgin Mary. What hinders salvation is the meaning of divinity. Hindus accept Jesus but have no salvation because they consider him to be an avatar of Brahma, but do not see him as Brahma alone. The LDS call Jesus divine, but do not see him as the only divine God. Confusion comes from the humanity and the divinity of Christ. Theology increases that confusion.

Jane, as I said, Mormons are the nicest hardworking people I know. But as long as you define divinity from LDS definition, you will remain blind to the Gospel.

Walking with Christ does not mean being nice, although being nice is part of it. It means trusting God when you stand against the crowd. It means speaking the truth when all say it is not true.

 

[Rescued One]

Post #40:

The LDS/Mormon missionaries taught me six lessons between the middle of March and the first week of April when I was in high school urging me to be baptized. I was baptized the first week of April without knowing that a temple marriage was a requirement for eternal life. In June of the following year, I was told that I should fulfill my divine potential to become a goddess someday. I was shocked! That was when I started to feel bad about the decision I had made to join that organization. Only God knows why I stayed in that church for so many years.

?

 

[Jane_Doe]

Technically, being married anywhere other than a Mormon temple is not obedience to the Mormon commandment and doesn't qualify a person for eternal life. If a couple does marry in the temple, they must continue to keep all the commandments in order to qualify for exaltation/godhood/eternal life.

"Alex, Mormons do NOT believe that salvation comes only by being married to anyone."

As I explained, they have multiple definitions for salvation.

The person you marry can't be just anyone. That person has to be a worthy Mormon.

If I'm not online, send me a message to explain ambiguous objections.

Phoebe, I am talking about salvation = living eternally with God in immeasurable joy and praise. It's that simple and I am OCD truthful. You're confusing yourself by mixing up with other things.

 

[AlexDTX]

"Alex, Mormons do NOT believe that salvation comes only by being married to anyone."

Phoebe, I did not say being married to anyone. Although, I may not have been clear. I meant to a Mormon man. And yes, I read the multiple definitions for salvation that you listed. As I said privately to you, I have never been a Mormon, and this is not my passion. It is yours and I am standing with you because you are engaged in an important work for the Lord.

I have studied religions and cults in an effort to understand what they believe and why they believe those things, but my passion is understanding what is happening with the global government that is rapidly building up around us.

My concern for the Church is the ecumenicalism that Christians are drifting towards which will be the source of the one world religion. The teaching of Universal Salvation is feeding into that same direction. A forum is not the way to lead people to Christ, but it is an appropriate venue for declaring the truth. And you are doing that, which is why I stand with you.

 

[Tolworth John]

The same way Rom. 8:17, 2 Cor. 3:18, Gal. 4:7, 1 Jn. 3:2, Rev. 3:21 do.

"What does it mean to become equal with Christ? It means to become like him. To become god-like means to qualify for exaltation, progress in knowledge, and to develop in the eternities the power to create. This is God's purpose—to lead His children back into His presence where they can be like Him."
Is how mormon wiki comments on the verse and that is not what the biblical verse say.
They are telling us that we mortals will be like Jesus, not that we will be him or have his powers.

Again what does They will become gods (see D&C 132:20–23). from Chapter 47: Exaltation
Mean if not that mormons hope to become gods.

Either you do not know what the mormon sect teaches or you are not telling the whole truth.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Here is where different meanings are used for the same words. Elohim means the totality of God, not just one part of God, of which we call the "Father".

Does't Trinitarian believe that the God consists of 3 person in ONE God. That the Father, Son, and Spirit are 3 different person. For example, Christ doesn't pray to Himself when He says "Father which art in Heaven"?

Isn't the belief that Christ and the Father are the same person the hearsay known as modalism?

All I'm talking about here is that LDS believe Son is a different person than the Father. The Son came down and prayed to the Father. LDS are not modalists.

The LDS call Jesus divine, but do not see him as the only divine God.

Actually LDS do only believe in ONE God. There's only one. And yes, Jesus Christ was God. Here's a bunch of references staying that (click on the link for context

• baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, Matt. 28:19(3 Ne. 11:25)
• I and my Father are one, John 10:30.
• that they might know thee the only true God, John 17:3.
• That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, John 17:21 (D&C 35:2)
• image of the invisible God, the firstborn, Col. 1:15.
• they are one God, Mosiah 15:4 (3 Ne. 11:36; D&C 20:28).

 

[Rescued One]

Phoebe, I am talking about salvation = living eternally with God in immeasurable joy and praise. It's that simple and I am OCD truthful. You're confusing yourself by mixing up with other things.

I'm NOT the one who is confused.

D&C 132
1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way leads to eternal lives; 26–27, The law is given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation are made to prophets and Saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing plural marriage are set forth...

16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.
17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.
Doctrine and Covenants 132

Eternal Life, or Exaltation.
In the scriptures, the words saved and salvation often refer to eternal life, or exaltation (see Abraham 2:11). Eternal life is to know Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ and dwell with Them forever—to inherit a place in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom (see John 17:3; D&C 131:1-4; 132:21-24). This exaltation requires that men receive the Melchizedek Priesthood, and that all Church members make and keep sacred covenants in the temple, including the covenant of eternal marriage. If the word salvation is used in this sense, no one is saved in mortality. That glorious gift comes only after the Final Judgment.
Salvation

 

[Jane_Doe]

As I said privately to you, I have never been a Mormon, and this is not my passion. It is yours and I am standing with you because you are engaged in an important work for the Lord.

It is far better to Truth and love.

Alex, I cannot make you see my very real relationship with Christ, I can only open the metaphoric door and invite you to ask any question you want. I'm an open book. Ask for yourself. See my relationship with Christ for yourself.

I in turn want to see your relationship with God: that's why I'm on this forum in the first place. Because I want to see other people's very real relationship with God, and better understand/love them. That's also what I attend a dozen churches besides my own every year. I want to see people love Christ with my own eyes. This is not "same difference"ing the diversity of faiths within Christendom (gah- that very idea makes me want to vomit), but to see people as they really are.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I'm NOT the one who is confused.

D&C 132
1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way leads to eternal lives; 26–27, The law is given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation are made to prophets and Saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing plural marriage are set forth...

16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.
17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.
Doctrine and Covenants 132

Eternal Life, or Exaltation.
In the scriptures, the words saved and salvation often refer to eternal life, or exaltation (see Abraham 2:11). Eternal life is to know Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ and dwell with Them forever—to inherit a place in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom (see John 17:3; D&C 131:1-4; 132:21-24). This exaltation requires that men receive the Melchizedek Priesthood, and that all Church members make and keep sacred covenants in the temple, including the covenant of eternal marriage. If the word salvation is used in this sense, no one is saved in mortality. That glorious gift comes only after the Final Judgment.
Salvation

You just made my point for me.

 

[Rescued One]

The Church's first article of faith states, "We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost." These three beings make up the Godhead. They preside over this world and all other creations of our Father in Heaven.
Godhead

God the Father is the Supreme Being in whom we believe and whom we worship. He is the ultimate Creator, Ruler, and Preserver of all things. He is perfect, has all power, and knows all things. He “has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s” (D&C 130:22).
God the Father

 

[Jane_Doe]

The Church's first article of faith states, "We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost." These three beings make up the Godhead. They preside over this world and all other creations of our Father in Heaven.

Yes, like Trinitarians we believe in 3 divine persons who make up ONE God.

 

[AlexDTX]

Does't Trinitarian believe that the God consists of 3 person in ONE God. That the Father, Son, and Spirit are 3 different person. For example, Christ doesn't pray to Himself when He says "Father which art in Heaven"?

That view of the Trinity is polytheism, and no, that is not what the trinity means. The trinity is Yahweh the Father, Yahweh the Word and Yahweh the Spirit. When Jesus prayed in his incarnation, he prayed as a created man praying to God. When he said, "Father," he was not praying to one part of God, but to God in his totality as his Father.

Jesus Christ was God

He still is God.

Alex, I cannot make you see my very real relationship with Christ, I can only open the metaphoric door and invite you to ask any question you want. I'm an open book. Ask for yourself. See my relationship with Christ for yourself.

OK, How has God spoken to you? What power have you walked in? I have been teleported by God from one room to another. God told me to raise someone from the dead. I have prayed for healing and they were healed.

He “has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s” (D&C 130:22).

Thank you Phoebe. God is a Spirit and did not have a body of flesh and bones as tangible as a man's until he incarnated as Christ.

 

[AlexDTX]

Yes, like Trinitarians we believe in 3 divine persons who make up ONE God.

Is Joseph Smith one of them?

 

[Rescued One]

Yes, like Trinitarians we believe in 3 divine persons who make up ONE God.

Christians don't believe:

The Church's first article of faith states, "We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost." These three beings make up the Godhead. They preside over this world and all other creations of our Father in Heaven.

 

[Tolworth John]

Jane, just to add to your problems
They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have—all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge (see D&C 132:19–20
https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-47-exaltation?lang=eng
He commands us all to receive certain ordinances:
We must be baptized.
We must receive the laying on of hands to be confirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ and to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Brethren must receive the Melchizedek Priesthood and magnify their callings in the priesthood.
We must receive the temple endowment.
We must be married for eternity, either in this life or in the next.
In addition to receiving the required ordinances, the Lord commands all of us to:
Love God and our neighbors.
Keep the commandments.
Repent of our wrongdoings.
Search out our kindred dead and receive the saving ordinances of the gospel for them.
Attend our Church meetings as regularly as possible so we can renew our baptismal covenants by partaking of the sacrament.
Love our family members and strengthen them in the ways of the Lord.
Have family and individual prayers every day.
Teach the gospel to others by word and example.
Study the scriptures.
Listen to and obey the inspired words of the prophets of the Lord.

That is not salvation by faith but by works. Works that the worshipper might become a god.

 

[Jane_Doe]

That view of the Trinity is polytheism, and no, that is not what the trinity means. The trinity is Yahweh the Father, Yahweh the Word and Yahweh the Spirit. When Jesus prayed in his incarnation, he prayed as a created man praying to God. When he said, "Father," he was not praying to one part of God, but to God in his totality as his Father.

I simply go by what the Athanasian Creed says: "That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons; nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal..." If believe something else, that's your beliefs.

He still is God.

Totally agreed there.

OK, How has God spoken to you?

Yes.

What power have you walked in?

God's.

Is Joseph Smith one of them?

No, that very idea is hilarious. He was a mortal sinner, like the rest of us.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Jane, just to add to your problems

Don't have any, thanks though

They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have—all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge (see D&C 132:19–20
Chapter 47: Exaltation

This chapter is about LDS views exaltation. If you want to talk about exaltation on another thread, I will be happy to do that. Thus far in this thread we've been talking about salvation (LDS and non).

 

[Peter1000]

Jane, just to add to your problems
They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have—all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge (see D&C 132:19–20
https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-47-exaltation?lang=eng
He commands us all to receive certain ordinances:
We must be baptized.
We must receive the laying on of hands to be confirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ and to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Brethren must receive the Melchizedek Priesthood and magnify their callings in the priesthood.
We must receive the temple endowment.
We must be married for eternity, either in this life or in the next.
In addition to receiving the required ordinances, the Lord commands all of us to:
Love God and our neighbors.
Keep the commandments.
Repent of our wrongdoings.
Search out our kindred dead and receive the saving ordinances of the gospel for them.
Attend our Church meetings as regularly as possible so we can renew our baptismal covenants by partaking of the sacrament.
Love our family members and strengthen them in the ways of the Lord.
Have family and individual prayers every day.
Teach the gospel to others by word and example.
Study the scriptures.
Listen to and obey the inspired words of the prophets of the Lord.

That is not salvation by faith but by works. Works that the worshipper might become a god.

Let me get this clear. If you are saved by faith, you do not have to do any of the above that you have listed? Is this correct?

 

[Peter1000]

Is Joseph Smith one of them?

Are you serious, just asking?

 

[Rescued One]

Pearl of Great Price
Abraham 4:
3 And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light; and there was light.
Abraham 4

About Joseph Smith:

Praise to the Man
Lyrics

1. 1. Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
   Jesus anointed that Prophet and Seer.
   Blessed to open the last dispensation,
   Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.
2. Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
   Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
   Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
   Death cannot conquer the hero again.
3. Praise to his mem’ry, he died as a martyr;
4. Honored and blest be his ever great name!
   Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins,
   Plead unto heav’n while the earth lauds his fame.
5. Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
   Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
   Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
   Death cannot conquer the hero again.
6. 3. Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
   Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
   Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom,
   Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.
7. Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
   Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
   Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
   Death cannot conquer the hero again.
8. 4. Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
   Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
   Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
   Millions shall know “Brother Joseph” again.
9. Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
   Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
   Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
   Death cannot conquer the hero again.
10. Text: William W. Phelps, 1792–1872
    Music: Scottish folk song

Praise to the Man

Calling and Election Made Sure
After a person . . . receives the Holy Ghost, which is the first Comforter, then let him continue to humble himself before God, hungering and thirsting after righteousness, and living by every word of God, and the Lord will soon say unto him, Son, thou shalt be exalted. When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve Him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure, then it will be his privilege to receive the other Comforter, which the Lord hath promised the Saints. . . . Now what is this other Comforter? It is no more nor less than the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 1976, pp. 150-51

The Prophet Joseph Smith received the promise of eternal life – he had his calling and election made sure. God will extend the same promise to all of his children if they will obey him. D&C 132:49 explains why the Prophet Joseph received this promise. He was willing to lay all he had on the altar. He was hunted and persecuted, sued in courts of law, torn from family and loved ones, and all because he had testified that the heavens were not closed and that God speaks to His children. The Prophet Joseph is an example in this dispensation of how children of God should act.
Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, p. 334

48 And again, verily I say unto you, my servant Joseph, that whatsoever you give on earth, and to whomsoever you give any one on earth, by my word and according to my law, it shall be visited with blessings and not cursings, and with my power, saith the Lord, and shall be without condemnation on earth and in heaven.
49 For I am the Lord thy God, and will be with thee even unto the end of the world, and through all eternity; for verily I seal upon you your exaltation, and prepare a throne for you in the kingdom of my Father, with Abraham your father.
50 Behold, I have seen your sacrifices, and will forgive all your sins; I have seen your sacrifices in obedience to that which I have told you. Go, therefore, and I make a way for your escape, as I accepted the offering of Abraham of his son Isaac.
Doctrine and Covenants 132