LDS Mormons Say Jesus is Your Brother and Can Be Your Father, Too

[AlexDTX]

You think we are wrong. I get that. I think that you would be better off if you accepted the restoration of the gospel of Christ. You may think we are wrong but that doesn’t mean we are wrong. You may be the one that is lacking the full understanding because of the faults of man. To me knowing where we came from and why we are here and where we are going after this life is important. Knowing and believing that there are living breathing prophets who do as was done in ancient times speaks with God and receives revelation for the good of the whole earth is important. You don believe it and that is okay. Your expectations of the next life limit you and your potentional God intended you to become. But the lower expectations you expect to receive in the next life will be realized. But God intended more for you.

I also understand that I will not convince you that you are wrong because of the hardness of your heart. I have no intention of trying. I know the new birth and the power of God because I have it. I know that there is only one God because I have been joined to His life. I know that I am not an eternal spirit that will ascend into godhood. Instead, I have been given God's very own life within me as He communes with me in my spirit. My faith is not based upon a doctrine, but his very presence which was given to me 30 years ago and has never left me. It is no mere "burning of the bosom". I have heard the Lord speak to me audibly and I know his promptings and nudges.

Do you not wonder why Phoebe left the LDS? Her tag line reads:

"I am no longer LDS; I am a Christian saved by the blood of the Lamb. "​

She is declaring that she, too, has the new birth and knows the Lord personally.

Your expectation of "your potential God intends for you" is weak compared to what God has given us. You will be a little god of your own planet (not!) whereas we are joined to the Almighty God who created all the heavens and the Earth. We are joined to the very Godhead of God Almighty. Your pipe dream will go up in smoke, but the promises made by Christ to the Elect who have the new birth is far greater.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I am hard pressed to see how Phoebe has denigrated or called their doctrines profane. From my reading of her posts, she is simply declaring the truth of what they believe. Frankly, the open forum is the place to declare these things. Jesus declared the truth regarding the folly of the Pharisees in public, too. As I said, her ministry is to equip the saints on this topic. as well as to debate practicing Mormons. For us, her information is tactical and logistical.

(This post is in general, not about a specific person)

The information contained in majority of posts on this thread are bearing false witness. Every time an LDS person reads a post bearing false witness against them, it drives a wedge between them and the person who wrote that post: no one likes being told lies about themselves, especially when it's about your relationship with Christ-- the very core of who you are. Further, to have such falsehoods praised as "tactical", "logistical", and "equipping the saints"--- that goes against every thing Christ stood for. Christ always spoke Truth and never had to resort to lying to spread His message.

It also calls to mind Matthew 5:44, and hence any LDS person reading this prays for writer that they may grow closer to Christ.

Speaking personally now, I spoke of my love of Christ earlier this thread (post #10), and not a SINGLE non-LDS person here even acknowledged it--- does no one here actually want to talk about Christ? Instead I've read post praising lies which attack the very core of who I am, as if that's the higher priority. How do you think that makes me feel?



(Note: I do want to do a shout out for Ken, who's Christian love does shine blazingly through his posts. Thank you Ken).

 

[AlexDTX]

(This post is in general, not about a specific person)

The information contained in majority of posts on this thread are bearing false witness. Every time an LDS person reads a post bearing false witness against them, it drives a wedge between them and the person who wrote that post: no one likes being told lies about themselves, especially when it's about your relationship with Christ-- the very core of who you are. Further, to have such falsehoods praised as "tactical", "logistical", and "equipping the saints"--- that goes against every thing Christ stood for. Christ always spoke Truth and never had to resort to lying to spread His message.

It also calls to mind Matthew 5:44, and hence any LDS person reading this prays for writer that they may grow closer to Christ.

Speaking personally now, I spoke of my love of Christ earlier this thread (post #10), and not a SINGLE non-LDS person here even acknowledged it--- does no one here actually want to talk about Christ? Instead I've read post praising lies which attack the very core of who I am, as if that's the higher priority. How do you think that makes me feel?



(Note: I do want to do a shout out for Ken, who's Christian love does shine blazingly through his posts. Thank you Ken).

Is it love it to let people jump off a cliff and die? The post is about the doctrines of the LDS and their error. If you argue for the error then it becomes personal because you are defending a cultic doctrine. I also appreciate Ken. But in this case he is wrong. It is not love to let people jump off cliffs to their deaths.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Is it love it to let people jump off a cliff and die? The post is about the doctrines of the LDS and their error. If you argue for the error then it becomes personal because you are defending a cultic doctrine. I also appreciate Ken. But in this case he is wrong. It is not love to let people jump off cliffs to their deaths.

Once again, you're ignoring me and my post about Christ.

Do you not want to talk about Christ?

 

[withwonderingawe]

I also understand that I will not convince you that you are wrong because of the hardness of your heart. I have no intention of trying. I know the new birth and the power of God because I have it. I know that there is only one God because I have been joined to His life. I know that I am not an eternal spirit that will ascend into godhood. Instead, I have been given God's very own life within me as He communes with me in my spirit. My faith is not based upon a doctrine, but his very presence which was given to me 30 years ago and has never left me. It is no mere "burning of the bosom". I have heard the Lord speak to me audibly and I know his promptings and nudges.

Do you not wonder why Phoebe left the LDS? Her tag line reads:

"I am no longer LDS; I am a Christian saved by the blood of the Lamb. "​

She is declaring that she, too, has the new birth and knows the Lord personally.

Your expectation of "your potential God intends for you" is weak compared to what God has given us. You will be a little god of your own planet (not!) whereas we are joined to the Almighty God who created all the heavens and the Earth. We are joined to the very Godhead of God Almighty. Your pipe dream will go up in smoke, but the promises made by Christ to the Elect who have the new birth is far greater.

I guess I can voice an opinion on Phoebe's reason for leaving but I realize none of us know what's in her heart. Sorry Phoebe we're gossiping about you, but not behind your back.

She seems hurt to me, something happened and her feelings were deeply hurt. She walked away from the church angry. Finding Evangelicalism and it's claim that Mormonism is evil, a cult of the devil justified her leaving. Also the doctrine of faith alone was appealing to her. The idea of actually having to do something to be saved is a big stumbling block. She has found a deep faith in and love for Jesus and the salvation he brings that she was unable to find in Mormonism. (but that doesn't mean he can't be found in Mormonism)

She is sincer in her beliefs and her attemps to address Mormonism. However some place along the way she ran into some anti Mormon phamplets with just enough misinformation that it twisted her basic knowledge about what the church teaches. I don't know that while in the church she had a total grasp of the doctrines.

She also seems to have an odd way of comprehending certain points, like topic of this thread. I have a hard time understanding the point, so we say Jesus is our brother. He said to Mary go tell my brethren. ..., So we call him Father, he is the creator/father of heaven and earth. Also we are lost to God the Father so adopted by Christ, we cry abba. I guess a lot of the time she leaves me confused as to what her intent is. She does keep the discussion going here, without her post it's kind of dull.

 

[eleos1954]

Mormon Teaching:

The term “Father” as applied to Deity occurs in sacred writ with plainly different meanings. Each of the four significations specified in the following treatment should be carefully segregated.

... the Eternal Father, whom we designate by the exalted name-title “Elohim,” is the literal Parent of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and of the spirits of the human race...

Jesus Christ applies to Himself both titles, “Son” and “Father.” Indeed, He specifically said to the brother of Jared: “Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son” [Book of Mormon](Ether 3:14). Jesus Christ is the Son of Elohim both as spiritual and bodily offspring; that is to say, Elohim is literally the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also the body in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh, and which body died on the cross and was afterward taken up by the process of resurrection, and is now the immortalized tabernacle of the eternal spirit of our Lord and Savior. No extended explanation of the title “Son of God” as applied to Jesus Christ appears necessary...

That Jesus Christ, whom we also know as Jehovah, was the executive of the Father, Elohim, in the work of creation is set forth in the book Jesus the Christ,chapter 4 [by James E. Talmage]. Jesus Christ, being the Creator, is consistently called the Father of heaven and earth in the sense explained above; and since His creations are of eternal quality He is very properly called the Eternal Father of heaven and earth.

A third sense in which Jesus Christ is regarded as the “Father” has reference to the relationship between Him and those who accept His gospel and thereby become heirs of eternal life. Following are a few of the scriptures illustrating this meaning...
Gospel Classics: - ensign

As I studied Mormonism, I learned that many words had multiple meanings: hell, salvation, eternal and Father are some examples (very complex).

***
There is one God — Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three co-eternal Persons.

Revelation 1:8

"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

Difficult for human minds to grasp fully.

 

[Jane_Doe]

***
There is one God — Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three co-eternal Persons.

Revelation 1:8

"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

Now that's LDS doctrine! (Obviously not uniquely LDS, but with other Christians)

 

[eleos1954]

Now that's LDS doctrine! (Obviously not uniquely LDS, but with other Christians)

***

I haven't looked into Mormans' teachings much. Spending most of my time in Gods word.

Matthew 4

4But he answered, “It is written,

“‘Man shall not live by bread alone,
but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

Genesis 1

1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

John 1:3

2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.

Genesis 6

3 Then the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever …

Acts 10

38 “You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

2nd Corinthians

17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

John 10:30

30 I and the Father are one.

Romans 8

29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;

Hebrews 2

11 For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father; for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren …

John 8:58

Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

 

[Jane_Doe]

***

I haven't looked into Mormans' teachings much. Spending most of my time in Gods word.

That's fantastic! May you keep on your journey being nurtured by His words!

 

[AlexDTX]

I guess I can voice an opinion on Phoebe's reason for leaving but I realize none of us know what's in her heart. Sorry Phoebe we're gossiping about you, but not behind your back.

She seems hurt to me, something happened and her feelings were deeply hurt. She walked away from the church angry. Finding Evangelicalism and it's claim that Mormonism is evil, a cult of the devil justified her leaving. Also the doctrine of faith alone was appealing to her. The idea of actually having to do something to be saved is a big stumbling block. She has found a deep faith in and love for Jesus and the salvation he brings that she was unable to find in Mormonism. (but that doesn't mean he can't be found in Mormonism)

She is sincer in her beliefs and her attemps to address Mormonism. However some place along the way she ran into some anti Mormon phamplets with just enough misinformation that it twisted her basic knowledge about what the church teaches. I don't know that while in the church she had a total grasp of the doctrines.

She also seems to have an odd way of comprehending certain points, like topic of this thread. I have a hard time understanding the point, so we say Jesus is our brother. He said to Mary go tell my brethren. ..., So we call him Father, he is the creator/father of heaven and earth. Also we are lost to God the Father so adopted by Christ, we cry abba. I guess a lot of the time she leaves me confused as to what her intent is. She does keep the discussion going here, without her post it's kind of dull.

You may be right. I would like to hear what @Phoebe Ann has to say as to why she left the LDS.

 

[Peter1000]

AlexDTX, read 1 Corinthians 13 and you will probably want to reword this:

How many have you led to Christ? What difference has your contribution to the Kingdom made? I hope you have led many and you have made a difference. Otherwise you are an armchair quarterback only.

 

[Peter1000]

AlexDTX says,

Your expectation of "your potential God intends for you" is weak compared to what God has given us. You will be a little god of your own planet (not!) whereas we are joined to the Almighty God who created all the heavens and the Earth. We are joined to the very Godhead of God Almighty. Your pipe dream will go up in smoke, but the promises made by Christ to the Elect who have the new birth is far greater.

Can you tell me what Christ promises to the Elect who have the new birth besides eternal life?

I too believe in Christ. I too have been born again of water and the HS. Am I saved? Or am I different from you?

 

[eleos1954]

That's fantastic! May you keep on your journey being nurtured by His words!

and you also. God Bless

 

[AlexDTX]

AlexDTX, read 1 Corinthians 13 and you will probably want to reword this:

Love does not mean saying nothing when something is wrong. As I said earlier is it love to let a blind man fall off a cliff when you can stop him?

You can read Ezekiel 3:18.

Eze_3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Love does not mean saying nothing when something is wrong. As I said earlier is it love to let a blind man fall off a cliff when you can stop him?

You can read Ezekiel 3:18.

Eze_3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

Alex, what do you believe a person must do in order to be saved?

 

[Peter1000]

Love does not mean saying nothing when something is wrong. As I said earlier is it love to let a blind man fall off a cliff when you can stop him?

You can read Ezekiel 3:18.

Eze_3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

I understand your reasoning as you respond to me, but my response was about how you responded to Ken Rank, a non-denomination Christian. Saying things like 'how many people have you brought to the Lord', or 'you are just an armchair quarterback' is not nice. A man that lives in God and God lives in him would never say these kinds of fighting words to a friend.

 

[AlexDTX]

Alex, what do you believe a person must do in order to be saved?

It is not about what one does, but the change in heart that comes when realizes that God (not Elohim as a god, but the only God who created heaven and Earth) became the man Jesus Christ to take our sins upon himself for our redemption, and the realization the one needs a Savior. Believing in the deity of Christ is crucial. Jehovah Witnesses say they believe in Jesus, but the Jesus they believe in is another Jesus who was Michael the Archangel. LDS say they believe in Jesus, but it is another Jesus, the son of Elohim who is brother to Lucifer. This is another Jesus, not the Almighty God who became the man Jesus.

Belief is not mental assent. It is a change in the heart which brings in the new birth. The new birth is not a "burning in the bosom" but the reception of Almighty God into your heart through the Holy Spirit. Man was created. We are not eternal spirits that become men, but dust that had the breath of God (not the same as the Spirit of God) breathed into our nostrils. That first man, Adam, failed, so a second man, Christ, fulfilled that Adam's failure. We die with Christ and are reborn in his resurrection. Salvation is about a new humanity that is forever joined to the Living God. In this life we believe the promises to come, but in the next life it will not be faith, but manifest reality.

As Ken said, words can have multiple meanings, but they have multiple meanings only because people make the different meanings. But words came from God first, and what he means is the only meaning that matters.

 

[AlexDTX]

I understand your reasoning as you respond to me, but my response was about how you responded to Ken Rank, a non-denomination Christian. Saying things like 'how many people have you brought to the Lord', or 'you are just an armchair quarterback' is not nice. A man that lives in God and God lives in him would never say these kinds of fighting words to a friend.

I am a man who lives in God, and I did. Elijah rebuked Israel for their vacillation at Mt. Carmel. Your opinion of what a man of God is, had no bearing upon me.

 

[Rescued One]

Spreading the following, as if it were truth, is not nice:

"If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation outside The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."
Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1979, p. 670

"Therefore it was made clearly manifest that salvation is in the Church, and of the Church, and is obtained only through the Church."
Mark E. Petersen, Salvation Comes through the Church, Ensign, July 1973

"This Church is the ensign on the mountain spoken of by the Old Testament prophets. It is the way, the truth, and the life. "
Marion G. Romney, Conference Report, April, 1961, p. 119

“[There is] no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, v. 1, p. 190
(Joseph Fielding Smith was the tenth president/prophet of the Mormon church.)

 

[Rescued One]

The LDS/Mormon missionaries taught me six lessons between the middle of March and the first week of April when I was in high school urging me to be baptized. I was baptized the first week of April without knowing that a temple marriage was a requirement for eternal life. In June of the following year, I was told that I should fulfill my divine potential to become a goddess someday. I was shocked! That was when I started to feel bad about the decision I had made to join that organization. Only God knows why I stayed in that church for so many years.