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Featured LDS Mormons Say Jesus is Your Brother and Can Be Your Father, Too

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Phoebe Ann, Nov 29, 2017.

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  1. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ

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    Mormon Teaching:

    The term “Father” as applied to Deity occurs in sacred writ with plainly different meanings. Each of the four significations specified in the following treatment should be carefully segregated.

    ... the Eternal Father, whom we designate by the exalted name-title “Elohim,” is the literal Parent of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and of the spirits of the human race...

    Jesus Christ applies to Himself both titles, “Son” and “Father.” Indeed, He specifically said to the brother of Jared: “Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son” [Book of Mormon](Ether 3:14). Jesus Christ is the Son of Elohim both as spiritual and bodily offspring; that is to say, Elohim is literally the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also the body in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh, and which body died on the cross and was afterward taken up by the process of resurrection, and is now the immortalized tabernacle of the eternal spirit of our Lord and Savior. No extended explanation of the title “Son of God” as applied to Jesus Christ appears necessary...

    That Jesus Christ, whom we also know as Jehovah, was the executive of the Father, Elohim, in the work of creation is set forth in the book Jesus the Christ,chapter 4 [by James E. Talmage]. Jesus Christ, being the Creator, is consistently called the Father of heaven and earth in the sense explained above; and since His creations are of eternal quality He is very properly called the Eternal Father of heaven and earth.

    A third sense in which Jesus Christ is regarded as the “Father” has reference to the relationship between Him and those who accept His gospel and thereby become heirs of eternal life. Following are a few of the scriptures illustrating this meaning...
    Gospel Classics: - ensign

    As I studied Mormonism, I learned that many words had multiple meanings: hell, salvation, eternal and Father are some examples (very complex).
     
  2. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member

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    Words DO have multiple meanings. The term brother can mean literal flesh and blood brother, it can also mean two (or more) joined because of shared belief or group involvement, and so forth.

    You won't win a Mormon over (or anyone else) by pointing out everything you perceive as wrong with them, God draws a man unto Himself (John 6:44). What we are expected to do is walk as light reflectors, make sure our words and deeds flow forth with His character traits, and when others are drawn and WANT to learn, we can teach them and fulfill the Great Commission which really is a call to teach, not convert.
     
  3. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ

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    Ken Rank,
    So do you assume that it’s an error to discuss or debate and that people should not be made aware of differences between non-Christian religions and Christianity? I believe staff would disagree with you.

    1 Corinthians 12
    14 For the body is not one member, but many. 15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? 18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. 19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. 22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: 23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. 24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: 25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. 26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

    Should Paul have not warned the Galatians?

    Galatians 1
    8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
    9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
    10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
     
  4. AlexDTX

    AlexDTX Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Phoebe,
    I think you are doing a great service to the body of Christ. Frankly, most people don't know what Mormons actually believe. Your information is valuable tactical data that a wise believer will carry in their memories so when speaking with Mormons they will know what they are really saying. Thank you for your information.
     
  5. AlexDTX

    AlexDTX Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Ken,
    I do agree with your comment, however, I also appreciate Phoebe's ministry. She is an ex-Mormon and knows the inside scoop. Christians in general are extremely naive regarding what others believe and she is providing a service to those people. As I said to Phoebe, a wise believer armed with this knowledge is going to better understand what Mormons are really saying and will be equipped with a keener discernment in knowing how to talk to them.
     
  6. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ

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    God bless you.

    I try to explain to Mormons what the Bible says. If they aren't interested or still don't understand, they can keep reading my posts or go elsewhere. I don't dislike Mormons --- if I did I wouldn't continue to interact with them.
     
  7. Jane_Doe

    Jane_Doe Well-Known Member

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    Very true.
    Amen to this 20 times over!
     
  8. Jane_Doe

    Jane_Doe Well-Known Member

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    Note: The information being provided in this original post and other ones like it is NOT actual LDS beliefs, but a bastardization misconstrued. This is a a spread of misinformation-- a fog. It drives people away from each other.

    This domestically opposed to Christ's way of love and truth. If you want to reach any person (any person), show that you love them by talking to them and listening them. They will tell you the truth about their thoughts/beliefs, and then you can tell them the truth about your thoughts/beliefs and they will listen.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
  9. AlexDTX

    AlexDTX Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The LDS is similar to the Free Masons in that there are many levels of knowledge. There are many Free Masons who know nothing of what the 33 degreed Masons know. This is also true for the LDS. There are many wonderful and moral people who join the LDS and see the family values and community support provided and that is all they know.

    I would ask you if you have the new birth, but other Mormons have said they did because of the "burning in the bosom". I would ask you if you believed Jesus Christ was God but I know you will say He is because LDS doctrine is that all people are eternal spirits (thus gods already), but one must earn their godhood just as Jesus did.

    No. Mormons are not Christians. It is a cult that denies the singular deity of God who became our Savior, Jesus Christ.
     
  10. Jane_Doe

    Jane_Doe Well-Known Member

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    Yes. I have embraced Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, being reborn through His Spirit and mighty atonement. As has every other LDS person.
    Yes. That's literally the first LDS Article of Faith.
    That's not why LDS believe Jesus Christ is God. Jesus Christ is God because He is the eternal Son of God, the Alpha and Omega, the Savior of the world, the only begotten. He forever sinless, eternally just, full of grace, etc. We humans are far far far from any of that.
    The Truth: members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are disciples of Christ- "Christians" as the word is defined in the Bible. We -I- preach of Christ, rejoice in Christ, celebrate Him as our one Lord and Savior, the Son of God.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
  11. withwonderingawe

    withwonderingawe Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Lol
     
  12. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Phoebe Ann does a great service for Mormons. She gives out more Mormon Doctrine than I do, and it is right on target. I know she means to be against us, but sometimes what she brings in her posts are wonderful to show how we believe about some things.

    She is off occasionally, but keep up the good work Phoebe Ann.

    PS: It is better to get LDS information from a seasoned, practicing, Mormon.
     
  13. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member

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    I get it Alex... not trying to take away from her knowledge or even passion... just saying, that in an open forum where Mormons can read, it doesn't accomplish much to denigrate things they consider to be holy. Even if we don't, if somebody sees something as truth or considers it to be a holy thing, and we, in their eyes, profane it, no good will come of it. Just a friendly warning I guess... to be careful how we openly speak. :)
     
  14. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member

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    I don't assume. What I did say is that when we profane something that another considers to be holy... no good will come of it. It is better to reflect the truth you now walk in and be ready to give an answer for the hope of your calling to those who ASK... then to tell everyone else how wrong they are.

    Remember, and I say this with respect... you might have come a long way from where you once were, but if you think everything you currently believe is 100% correct and you no longer will learn and grow... then you're wrong.
     
  15. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ

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    I am not against you, Peter. And I've never been against Mormons.
     
  16. AlexDTX

    AlexDTX Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I am hard pressed to see how Phoebe has denigrated or called their doctrines profane. From my reading of her posts, she is simply declaring the truth of what they believe. Frankly, the open forum is the place to declare these things. Jesus declared the truth regarding the folly of the Pharisees in public, too. As I said, her ministry is to equip the saints on this topic. as well as to debate practicing Mormons. For us, her information is tactical and logistical. And even Peter1000, a practicing Mormon, in post #12, admits that Phoebe's information is right on.

    So tell me, Ken, how many Mormons have you led to Christ? In my case it is zero and I welcome here information.
     
  17. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member

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    What I am saying is... when somebody believes anything... let's say that Bob believes when he dies that he will live on clouds playing harps. This is his interpretation, no doubt influenced by too much Bugs Bunny as a child, but still... he reads Scripture and somehow comes to this conclusion. His understanding of his future with God might be skewed, wrong, but isn't evil... he is just showing that he needs better teaching. If we go in, guns blazing, telling Bob how wrong he is... he is likely to pull his security blanket up tighter (his doctrine) because we are trying to dislodge him from something he believes is of God. The Jews have done this when we come running in telling them they don't need to keep things like Passover anymore. Instead of embracing Yeshua, they run because they see us trying to remove those things that define their identity with God... things that are HOLY to them. TO THEM is the key...

    So, if the Mormons have a faulty doctrine and I agree they have many (not that we are 100% correct on everything either) and we come in telling them how wrong they are... will they listen? Will you listen when somebody comes in telling you what an apostate you are because you believe ____? No... you are more likely to get deeper into ___ seeing the attempt by the other as persecution.

    The Great Commission is derived from Deut. 6:7, factor that verse in with the understanding that the "GO!" in the Great Commission is a participle in Greek, "going" and most Greek scholars will tell you it is more like, "as you are going" as it is passive, too. And, it isn't a call to convert, it is a call to teach and to teach one needs a willing student, one who is "seeking" not one we force to seek.

    This doesn't go for just Mormons, this goes for all we encounter. If we can't reflect the Lord we serve in our words and deeds and just allow that reflection to be what draws them, then we have no basis to be out trying to do that work anyway. We need to build relationships and SHOW others that there is more... not force on them in words that there is more.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
  18. AlexDTX

    AlexDTX Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Ken, I understand what you think. However, I still disagree. There are many reasons. We are to speak the truth but that does not mean the results will be salvation. Salvation is a matter of the heart, but the when the wrong belief is in the heart, it is buttressed by reasons of the mind. There is a need to refute those reasons. On the day of judgement those who reject... and reject is what they are doing... the Gospel the truth will be revealed that they knew the truth and willfully rejected the Gospel.

    It is true that as we go we are to share the Gospel, but it is also true that deliberate campaigns of evangelism and missions are to be undertaken. Otherwise Paul and the apostles who all left on missions to share the Gospel and died as martyrs (except John) were in the wrong. Which is not the case.

    I admitted that I have never led a Mormon to Christ, but I have led hundreds to Christ in my 30 years as a follower of the Lord. How many have you led to Christ? What difference has your contribution to the Kingdom made? I hope you have led many and you have made a difference. Otherwise you are an armchair quarterback only.
     
  19. fatboys

    fatboys Senior Veteran

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    Amen
     
  20. fatboys

    fatboys Senior Veteran

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    You think we are wrong. I get that. I think that you would be better off if you accepted the restoration of the gospel of Christ. You may think we are wrong but that doesn’t mean we are wrong. You may be the one that is lacking the full understanding because of the faults of man. To me knowing where we came from and why we are here and where we are going after this life is important. Knowing and believing that there are living breathing prophets who do as was done in ancient times speaks with God and receives revelation for the good of the whole earth is important. You don believe it and that is okay. Your expectations of the next life limit you and your potentional God intended you to become. But the lower expectations you expect to receive in the next life will be realized. But God intended more for you.
     
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