LDS Mormons deny the virgin birth

[He is the way]

Like it or not---Jesus created everything!--that includes Satan! There is no immortality of the soul--you will never find those 2 words written together. That is a philosophy that crept in from the Greeks. Even Adam and Eve required the tree of life and had to be thrown out of the garden to prevent them from eating of it and living forever.
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

We get that tree of life back after the resurrection.

Rev_2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Rev_22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Again:
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.


Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

All created beings are called the children of God. Angels are no more immortal than man. The fallen angels will have their time in the lake of fire and be destroyed.

We have the promise of immortality now--it will be given at the resurrection. It is the gift of God, not a right by birth as with Jesus.
Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

You said: "Like it or not---Jesus created everything!--that includes Satan!" So then Jesus created all of His brothers and sisters including Himself? You say that once there was nothing, how is that possible if God has always existed? Are you saying that God is nothing? I do not believe that God is nothing, can you prove that God is nothing? Can you prove that everything is nothing?

 

[He is the way]

Apples and oranges---Jesus was God before being born--we never were. Jesus is from everlasting to everlasting. We have to acquire our immortality from God as a gift---He gets His by His own right.
He is our brother by virtue of having been made human by the Holy Spirit. We are human by birth to humans, we are the gift of God to our parents. Jesus is the one who created everything and no brother to us before His incarnation, and certainly no brother to Satan for Jesus created him. The Godhead alone is immortal.

1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

So now you are saying that there has always been an existence, that Jesus has always existed. That is what I have been trying to tell you all along. Jesus has always existed and He is something. He is not the only thing that existed in the beginning, He was with God the Father. Neither does the Bible state that they were the only things that existed in the beginning.

 

[Peter1000]

The truth of the Trinity, though not called that--is all over the bible. The immortality of the soul is not. It is of Greek origin. Jesus said it best--
Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

The body and soul of the sinner will be destroyed in the fire of God. I know that is not the teaching of most churches, but many others besides ours do not believe in an everlasting burning hell where souls are tortured forever. There is life after death---after the resurrection. We do not believe in going to hell or heaven at death. When Jesus returns--His reward is with Him. His reward is eternal life for all the saved---in His presence forever. The judgment of the wicked takes place after the 1000 years. Makes no sense to get your reward before the decision of the judgement is reached. Jesus is now our high priest, that is what He is doing now---presenting His blood to God for atonement for the saved. When He is finished---then the end will come.

Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Rev_16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

When He is done the final choice will have been made---there will be nor more time for anyone---their eternal choice will have been made:

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

I'm sure Jesus will filter through all the belief systems and will allow those that are worthy to enter into his kingdom and have eternal life. It will all be done with great mercy and love and grace from Jesus.

 

[mmksparbud]

So now you are saying that there has always been an existence, that Jesus has always existed. That is what I have been trying to tell you all along. Jesus has always existed and He is something. He is not the only thing that existed in the beginning, He was with God the Father. Neither does the Bible state that they were the only things that existed in the beginning.

What do you mean "NOW" I'm saying Jesus always existed----I've always said that!!! Of course, God the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit all always existed---have always said that!

You said: "Like it or not---Jesus created everything!--that includes Satan!" So then Jesus created all of His brothers and sisters including Himself? You say that once there was nothing, how is that possible if God has always existed? Are you saying that God is nothing? I do not believe that God is nothing, can you prove that God is nothing? Can you prove that everything is nothing?

Are you really serious??? Jesus created all the angels---that includes Lucifer. What in Sam Hill are you saying with Jesus created Himself??!!! That makes no sense whatsoever!! jESUS WAS NEVER CREATED, i HAVE ALWAYS SAID THEY ALWAYS EXISTED. GOD THE fATHER WAS NEVER SOME MAN BORN OF SOME MAN WHO WORKED HIMSELF INTO BEING GOD!! HE ALWAYS WAS GOD.
YHou do not seem to understand the concept of GOD--you can only comporehend a god. Sorry if you can't wrap your head around the concept that the Godhead existed and nothing else and Jesus created everything.

 

[mmksparbud]

We also believe that Jesus existed before He was born and that He is our brother as evidenced in the Bible:

Of course Jesus existed before being born as a human!!! He was God the Son and always existed with the Father and Holy Spirit. By virtue of His being born as a human, He then became our brother---before that He was the one that created Adam and Eve.

 

[He is the way]

What do you mean "NOW" I'm saying Jesus always existed----I've always said that!!! Of course, God the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit all always existed---have always said that!



Are you really serious??? Jesus created all the angels---that includes Lucifer. What in Sam Hill are you saying with Jesus created Himself??!!! That makes no sense whatsoever!! jESUS WAS NEVER CREATED, i HAVE ALWAYS SAID THEY ALWAYS EXISTED. GOD THE fATHER WAS NEVER SOME MAN BORN OF SOME MAN WHO WORKED HIMSELF INTO BEING GOD!! HE ALWAYS WAS GOD.
YHou do not seem to understand the concept of GOD--you can only comporehend a god. Sorry if you can't wrap your head around the concept that the Godhead existed and nothing else and Jesus created everything.

You said: "the Godhead existed and nothing else" Believe what ever you want to believe, but I don't believe that.

 

[mmksparbud]

You said: "the Godhead existed and nothing else" Believe what ever you want to believe, but I don't believe that.

I know you don't.

 

[He is the way]

I know you don't.

Is there any reason that I should believe that? Create does not mean making something out of nothing.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Though I don't agree with Mormons.. my 1st thought is.. ok so what? Where is it written in the word of GOD one MUST believe in the virgin birth to be saved? Even in the OT they still go back and forth over a WORD and what it meant.

It matters because one reason some people are not Christians is they do not believe Mary was a virgin. If Jesus was conceived naturally with Joseph being his father, he would not be God in the flesh.

 

[mmksparbud]

Is there any reason that I should believe that? Create does not mean making something out of nothing.

You have your god and I have my God---the 2 are not acquainted.

 

[Rescued One]

It matters because one reason some people are not Christians is they do not believe Mary was a virgin. If Jesus was conceived naturally with Joseph being his father, he would not be God in the flesh.

In Mormonism, the father god impregnated Mary.

 

[GodLovesCats]

In Mormonism, the father god impregnated Mary.

But they deny Mary was a virgin? Is the thread title wrong?

 

[Rescued One]

I'm sure Jesus will filter through all the belief systems and will allow those that are worthy to enter into his kingdom and have eternal life. It will all be done with great mercy and love and grace from Jesus.

The key word is worthy:

To be worthy is to achieve Godhood.

Requirements for Exaltation
.The time to fulfill the requirements for exaltation is now (see Alma 34:32–34). President Joseph Fielding Smith “In order to obtain the exaltation we must accept the gospel and all its covenants; and take upon us all the obligations which the Lord has offered; and walk in the light and the understanding of the truth; and ‘live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God’” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:43).

To be exalted, we first must place our faith in Jesus Christ and then endure in that faith to the end of our lives. Our faith in Him must be such that we repent of our sins and obey His commandments.

He commands us all to receive certain ordinances:

. 1.
We must be baptized.
. 2.
We must receive the laying on of hands to be confirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ and to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
. 3.
Brethren must receive the Melchizedek Priesthood and magnify their callings in the priesthood.
. 4.
We must receive the temple endowment.
. 5.
We must be married for eternity, either in this life or in the next.

In addition to receiving the required ordinances, the Lord commands all of us to:
. 1.
Love God and our neighbors.
. 2.
Keep the commandments.
. 3.
Repent of our wrongdoings.
. 4.
Search out our kindred dead and receive the saving ordinances of the gospel for them.
. 5.
Attend our Church meetings as regularly as possible so we can renew our baptismal covenants by partaking of the sacrament.
. 6.
Love our family members and strengthen them in the ways of the Lord.
. 7.
Have family and individual prayers every day.
. 8.
Teach the gospel to others by word and example
. 9.
Study the scriptures.
. 10.
Listen to and obey the inspired words of the prophets of the Lord.

Finally, each of us needs to receive the Holy Ghost and learn to follow His direction in our individual lives.

•
Gospel Principles, c. 1978, 1979, and 1981, Chapter 47, Exaltation, p. 291-292

I think they forgot to say that if the bishop calls you to serve in some capacity you are to regard that calling as coming directly from God. You should accept the calling.

“For all who will have a blessing at my hands shall abide the law which was appointed for the blessing, and the conditions thereof, as were instituted before the foundations of the world. (D&C 132:5.)”
Elray L. Christiansen, General Conference, Oct. 1972

 

[Rescued One]

But they deny Mary was a virgin? Is the thread title wrong?

They make up their own definitions for doctrines that don't agree with our understanding. One of the reasons I've been here so many years is that they don't really want people to know things that are hard to accept.

 

[Rescued One]

Oh, yes, they will tell you that Mary was a virgin anyway.

 

[GodLovesCats]

They make up their own definitions for doctrines that don't agree with our understanding. One of the reasons I've been here so many years is that they don't really want people to know things that are hard to accept.

It is great that you found a forum to get all that information from!

 

[mmksparbud]

But they deny Mary was a virgin? Is the thread title wrong?

Actually, they do believe she was a virgin---They do not believe that what she conceived was of the Holy Spirit as the bible says.

They don't even understand what they are saying---for they imply that God's sperm and Mary's egg equals Jesus. Which actually means that God and Mary created another Jesus---but, of course, they don't see that that is actually what they are saying! They can not conceive of the fact that the Holy Spirit actually put the One and only Son of God into the womb of Mary---no sperm needed, of course, but they can't seem to grasp that. They do not acknowledge the Holy Spirit doing this and have to come up with the sperm and egg thing.

 

[Rescued One]

It is great that you found a forum to get all that information from!

I'm here to provide the information they leave out.

 

[Rescued One]

Actually, they do believe she was a virgin---They do not believe that what she conceived was of the Holy Spirit as the bible says.

They don't even understand what they are saying---for they imply that God's sperm and Mary's egg equals Jesus. Which actually means that God and Mary created another Jesus---but, of course, they don't see that that is actually what they are saying! They can not conceive of the fact that the Holy Spirit actually put the One and only Son of God into the womb of Mary---no sperm needed, of course, but they can't seem to grasp that. They do not acknowledge the Holy Spirit doing this and have to come up with the sperm and egg thing.

Did I post this in this thread or another?



LDS Family Home Evening Manual

 

[mmksparbud]

Did I post this in this thread or another?

View attachment 257497

LDS Family Home Evening Manual

LOL! I can't keep them straight either!