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Featured LDS Mormons and the Bible

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Phoebe Ann, Jun 8, 2019.

  1. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    The Bible according to the Bible:

    2 Timothy 3
    15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

    Suppose a person quotes the Bible in an effort to mislead you. Do you know Christian doctrine well enough to spot errors that are aimed at you? The apostles went out with the message of the gospel. Not everyone was equipped to verify their message.

    Acts 17
    10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11
    These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few. 13 But when the Jews of Thessalonica had knowledge that the word of God was preached of Paul at Berea, they came thither also, and stirred up the people. 14 And then immediately the brethren sent away Paul to go as it were to the sea: but Silas and Timotheus abode there still. 15 And they that conducted Paul brought him unto Athens: and receiving a commandment unto Silas and Timotheus for to come to him with all speed, they departed.

    Have you studied the Bible? Do you believe it is the word of God?

    Psalm 119:9, 11

    9 Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word...
    11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.



    The Bible according to Mormonism:


    8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

    There are no original plates for the Book of Mormon and it has suffered many changes
    since the first publication.

    Nephi testified that the Bible once “contained the fulness of the gospel of the Lord, of whom the twelve apostles bear record” and that “after [the words] go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away” (1 Nephi 13:24, 26).
    Boyd K. Packer, “Who Is Jesus Christ?,” Ensign, Mar 2008, 12–19

    This what the Book of Mormon says about the Bible:

    24 And the angel of the Lord said unto me: Thou hast beheld that the book proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew; and when it proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew it contained the fulness of the gospel of the Lord, of whom the twelve apostles bear record; and they bear record according to the truth which is in the Lamb of God.

    25 Wherefore, these things go forth from the Jews in purity unto the Gentiles, according to the truth which is in God.

    26 And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away.

    27 And all this have they done that they might pervert the right ways of the Lord, that they might blind the eyes and harden the hearts of the children of men.

    28 Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God.

    29 And after these plain and precious things were taken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles; and after it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles, yea, even across the many waters which thou hast seen with the Gentiles which have gone forth out of captivity, thou seest—because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the book, which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the Lamb of God—because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them.
    Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 13: 24-29

    Note: In the early days, LDS(Mormons) referred to the great and abominable church as the Roman Catholic Church, but they have changed some doctrines and practices that began to stand in the way of making converts to Mormonism.
     
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  2. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    The reason I started this thread is because many times, instead of explaining Mormonism, a member of that church will post Bible verses that they have no objection to, then some that they twist to fit Mormon doctrine and then imply that Christians saved by grace don't strive to or desire to keep the commandments.

    For instance, some non-Christians were performing proxy baptisms for dead people. When a person dies, his salvation is already determined.

    “Otherwise, what will they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead?” (1 Corinthians 15:29).

    Paul was pointing out that even those people who were doing that believed there would be a resurrection. There is no commandment for Christians to perform those useless acts.

    More information
     
  3. drstevej

    drstevej Light Attracts Bugs Staff Member Chaplain Supporter

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    Oh yeah, we toss out Song of Solomon.
     
  4. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    The Jews obviously believed and were taught to baptize for the dead. Where did that teaching come from?

    When Jesus saw them baptizing for the dead, he did not condemn them for the practice, he just questioned why they were doing it. For the people who were baptizing for the dead did not even believe in the resurrection. So if you do not believe in the resurrection, why baptize someone for the dead?

    Not because it was wrong to do that, but they did not know why they were even doing it.

    So it is interesting that they were baptizing for the dead, who taught them that?
     
  5. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    Who said they were Jews? Who said Jesus saw anyone doing that?
     
  6. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    Alma said,
    35 For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked.
    (Alma 34)
     
  7. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    Most people are not wicked, but still need the baptismal ordinance performed in their behalf. That is why there is baptism for the dead:

    (New Testament | 1 Peter 4:6 - 8)

    6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
    7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.
    8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
     
  8. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    (New Testament | Matthew 6:9 - 13)

    9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
    10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
    11 Give us this day our daily bread.
    12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
    13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

    JST (New Testament | Matthew 6:9 - 13)

    9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
    10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
    11 Give us this day our daily bread.
    12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
    13 And suffer us not to be led into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

    Our Father: Pope Francis approves changes to words of Lord's Prayer, reports say

    Members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints and Catholics working together through LOVE.
     
  9. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    How on earth does that have anything to do with "Latter Day Saints and Catholics working together through LOVE"? Are you trying to suggest that the Roman Catholic Church owes the recent revision to the JST, even though that's nowhere in your link, and anyway is absolutely insane and baseless?
     
  10. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    You said: "How on earth does that have anything to do with "Latter Day Saints and Catholics working together through LOVE"? It doesn't, but we are:

    "In Utah, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has proven to be a strong partner with Catholic Community Services of Utah, the local arm of Catholic Charities USA.

    “Not only do they support us with in-kind and monetary donations, but also with volunteers,” said Bradford R. Drake, executive director of Catholic Community Services.

    “Their manpower is invaluable as each of our programs rely on thousands of volunteers each year to meet the needs of those we serve,” he said, adding, “we consider ourselves very fortunate to work with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, whose focus is very similar to ours in following Christ’s example of serving those most in need.”

    On a national level, since the 1980s, LDS Charities, the church’s humanitarian arm, has had on ongoing relationship with Catholic Relief Services."

    From: In Utah, Catholics, Mormons have ‘positive, cordial relationship’

    You said: "Are you trying to suggest that the Roman Catholic Church owes the recent revision to the JST" No, however their new rendering of the Lord's prayer is very similar to the JST rendering.
     
  11. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    Okay, then.

    It's generally a good idea to have your assertions be at least somewhat related to the content of the post in which you put them, but hey... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    It now matches exactly what the Spanish translation already was, "no nos dejes caer en la tentación" (read: it's only changing in English). So again, what's your point? What's the point of pointing to the JST in this context?
     
  12. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    You said: "It now matches exactly what the Spanish translation already was" I didn't know that, thank you. So the Spanish translation of the Bible is better than the English at least in that verse. The Bible is not very clear on a lot of points and causes lots of people to err in their understanding of the gospel. It is my hope that someday we will be able to come together in our understanding of the gospel.
     
  13. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    I just want to make it clear to anyone who might read this thread that this ^ was not my point at all in bringing up the Spanish translation. The Spanish translation is not "better" or "worse" than any other translation. The point was that this has nothing to do with the JST, and it seems much more likely that the RCC would -- if they were to update their translation of the Prayer (edit: sheesh...I'm so used to correcting Mormons on the basics of the Creed that I think my brain just automatically assumes that's what we're doing again and puts "Creed" everywhere; hahaha) -- to have it closer to/match the understanding that is already present in the Spanish-speaking Church, given how large that contingent is within the RCC overall and of course so that they can make sure that everyone is on the same page theologically, and so Anglophones and Spanish-speakers weren't getting two different understandings of the same prayer. (I grew up speaking Spanish, and always understood it as we do in that language, so this is not a shock to the system for me that it might be for others; they probably should've/could've done it a long time ago, were it not for the fact that everyone who speaks English is used to saying it one way.)

    What on God's green Earth...! :doh:

    You know...I'm just going to refrain from commenting further and leave this here, since the thread is about "Mormons and the Bible", and now everyone can read from a Mormon what they really think of the Bible. Thank you. Now please excuse me, I have to go throw up in my mouth over an unrelated matter... :sick:

    Things like what you just wrote certainly don't help. While I do know many Christians who I personally believe may be in error in this or that way (i.e., there's a reason why I'm Orthodox and not anything else), I don't think any of that error is because "the Bible is not very clear on a lot of points and causes people ot err in their understanding of the gospel". Rather, people have different hermeneutic traditions and approaches which they may follow, not all of which I believe to be sound. In no case is that the fault of the text, since plenty of people (including the people of my Church) had at least begun to be converted to Christianity before the Biblical text itself was written. The gospel is the "good news" itself which was brought to Egypt by our father St. Mark the Evangelist and beholder of the Lord and destroyer of idols, to India by our father St. Thomas, to Antioch by our fathers St. Peter and St. Paul, etc. The writing and eventual translation of the text was all later than this, and yet these people heard and received the gospel perfectly from those who had been there to witness it themselves.

    That never happened to Joseph Smith or any Mormon, so I don't think your dream is going to happen so long as your religion insists that we throw away what we have received in favor of a latter-day revelation which involves distrust in the scriptures that were written, canonized, and passed down to us by the Church which it (JS' vision) says is corrupt and has been corrupt since whenever the fantasy 'great apostasy' happened. Get rid of all of that stuff, and then we can talk about coming to an understanding. Until then, we're not even in the same universe.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
  14. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    Many people are deceived by Mormonism because the Mormons withhold their syncretic teachings. When they sucked me in at age 18, they deliberately didn't tell me their goals of godhood or that celestial marriage was a requirement for eternal life.

    Can reading the Bible cause Satan to have great power over a person? NO!

    Psalm 119
    105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

    The word of God is the sword of the Spirit.

    Christian Sword of the Spirit.jpg
     
  15. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    Your right, I was mixing stories. Let's start over.

    In 1 Corinthians 15, Paul is talking to the brethren of the Church of Jesus Christ of First-century Saints.

    In verse 12, it is revealed that some of them did not believe there was actually going to be a resurrection. So Paul tells them why the resurrection is important.

    But in verse 29 he remarks about the practice of baptizing people for the dead. Where did the brethren of the church learn to do baptisms for the dead?

    But apparently, some of them were baptizing and did not believe in the resurrection, therefore he asked the question: Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

    IOW if there is no resurrection why baptize these people for the dead. It only makes sense to baptize people for the dead, if there is indeed a resurrection. So Paul did not condemn the practice, he only wondered why they were doing it if they did not believe in the resurrection.

    Good question right?
     
  16. Ignatius the Kiwi

    Ignatius the Kiwi Newbie

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    Do Mormons believe the Bible no longer contains the fullness of the Gospel? How and when was this changed?
     
  17. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    I believe that we can all be united in one once everyone has a full knowledge of the complete gospel:

    (New Testament | 1 Corinthians 1:10)

    10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
     
  18. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    (Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:13 - 14)

    13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
    14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

    That being said, I believe God still has much to revile:

    (New Testament | 1 Corinthians 3:1 - 3)

    1 AND I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
    2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
    3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
     
  19. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    But you as Mormons don't even have that. You just wrote as much in your subsequent post to Ignatius the Kiwi: "That being said, I believe God still has much to revile" [sic] (I take it you mean "reveal")

    Nothing in here about joining an occult religion with an ever-changing yet somehow still claimed to be 'complete' gospel. No thank you.
     
  20. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    In your opinion, what is the gospel (good news)? It certainly is not knowing everything that God knows.
     
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