LDS Mormonism is Occultism

[Jane_Doe]

Lemme tell everyone how the LDS Church operates in SLC. They get their hooks into single homeless women who come into contact with them through social service organizations like the homeless shelter and the salvation army and offer them assistance.

They help them get public housing, food stamps, furniture for their apartment, vouchers and jobs. Once the woman is comfortable in her new life and has something to lose, they come knocking at the door twice a week with the "OTHER TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST" Mormon Bible in their hands for indoctrination.

When the woman is fit for "recommendation", and exhibits a devout attitude, they next introduce her to some LDS stranger who's going to become her new husband.

That kids is the very definition of "coercive servitude". In other words.. SLAVERY !

Lots of empty accusations with no back up with facts or citations.

 

[Ironhold]

Lemme tell everyone how the LDS Church operates in SLC. They get their hooks into single homeless women who come into contact with them through social service organizations like the homeless shelter and the salvation army and offer them assistance.

They help them get public housing, food stamps, furniture for their apartment, vouchers and jobs. Once the woman is comfortable in her new life and has something to lose, they come knocking at the door twice a week with the "OTHER TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST" Mormon Bible in their hands for indoctrination.

When the woman is fit for "recommendation", and exhibits a devout attitude, they next introduce her to some LDS stranger who's going to become her new husband.

That kids is the very definition of "coercive servitude". In other words.. SLAVERY !

[citation needed]

You're making some pretty serious claims here, claims that are putting you in The Young Turks territory (even Alex Jones wouldn't dabble in this kind of material) since you've proven yourself so unwilling to back them up.

 

[stephen583]

Lots of empty accusations with no back up with facts or citations.

EMPTY accusations ? No facts, or citations ? In other words.. The LDS Church is getting away with crime, and their not guilty because no one can prove it ?

Spoken like a true criminal. I rest my case.

 

[Ironhold]

EMPTY accusations ? No facts, or citations ? In other words.. The LDS Church is getting away with crime, and their not guilty because no one can prove it ?

That's how the American legal system works. "Better to let a guilty person go free than see an innocent person go to jail" and all that. Accusations are a dime a dozen, man. Convictions are what counts.

Need me to go back through my Rolodex and put you in contact with some law enforcement and criminal justice types to explain it to you in full detail?

 

[stephen583]

No. Actually I am law enforcement. Thanks anyway.

Why are you so obsessed with having me cite the names of people making these accusations ? Anybody want to guess ?

 

[Ironhold]

No. Actually I am law enforcement. Thanks anyway.

Why are you so obsessed with having me cite the names of people making these accusations ? Anybody want to guess ?

It's because... "citing your evidence" is how things work.

If you're trying to get the word out, then you should know that no credible media outlet in America will even think about running your allegations without even a shred of evidence that anything's going on above and beyond your mere say-so. And even a number of questionably-credible sources would be hesitant to touch it because there's so little to go on.

So basically, if you're not willing to back yourself up, you're not going to impress anyone. That's all there is to it.

Edit -

Also, if you truly are law enforcement, then you should know this already.

 

[Ironhold]

Another reason I question matters is because you claim to be law enforcement, yet you've let slip enough information to where a person could hypothetically track down which department you work for and even identify you as a person.

The actual law enforcement types I've encountered online were tight-lipped about who they were and what they did. The most we got from them via public communication was what area they were in and their duty status (beat cop, desk jockey, et cetra). Everything else was kept private.

 

[Ironhold]

Anywho, it's verging on 2 AM where I live, so I'm off for now.

I'll check back in on the thread next time I'm online.

 

[withwonderingawe]

I was just standing outside in front the Mormon Temple on a public sidewalk one day and was merely discussing "general" theology

Could not have been in front of the Temple on a public sidewalk, the space where the fountains are, it's all Church owned.

and was accosted by two Mormon "apostles" who came out of the temple doors

Impossible the exit doors lead on to the grounds around the Temple, those big doors don't even open up silly. The Apostles have more to do than chase you off the property.

So it's accurate to say the Mormon Church has it's own police force (temple guards) in SLC.

The Church has it's own security force guarding the Temple from nitwits who want to blow it up.

Only the Bishop, or an apostle of the church authorized by the Bishop can confer the "recommend" status,".

If you knew so much about the Church you know that even an Apostles has to have his recommend interview with his Bishop and then his Stake President. An Apostle can not give a recommend nor take one away. That stewardship only belongs to a person's Bishop.

They have their hands in almost every aspect of life in SLC, and have infiltrated every state and federal run institution, as well as dominating the local press media with their xenophobic and archaic slave based views towards women as equals.

Jackie Biskupski is the mayor of Salt Lake City, she is a woman and she is gay. There are more non English speaking members of the Church than English speaking. Even KSL and the Deseret News paper which is Church owned has stopped using the term 'Illegal Aliens' they are now Mexican Nationals.

I think you don't even live in Salt Lake.

 

[withwonderingawe]

These are all stories I've heard. I don't necessarily believe them, but my point is that if Ironhold can pass along stories he's heard of Christian churches locking mormons in and torturing them then shouldn't my stories that I've heard be taken as seriously? What do you think, have you heard about mormons being locked into Christian churches and tortured? You didn't seem to mind those stories. Why is that?

I have had enough of your misinformed hate speech, also.

My family is from Turlock California, I have a nephew who was invited to a basketball camp at a local Christian Church. When he got there it was a deprogram the Mormon boy meeting and yes he was locked in! He was surrounded by their ministers and others all throwing the same false stories you have been throwing out here. They prayed over him and finally told him he was going to hell to burn forever if he didn't accept their Jesus. Didn't work the boy new his scriptures and refuted all of their attacks. My sister was ready to charge them with kidnapping.

 

[dqhall]

I posted this as part of a response in another thread but am creating a thread about Mormonism being the Occult so as not to derail that other thread.

When you don't share something, you are hiding it. When it is spiritual in nature, that is occultism. "Occult" means "hidden". Hidden spiritual knowledge is occultism.

Occultism is the hallmark of pagan and "mystery" religions. Mormonism fits into this category because they have the belief (and any mormon will readily admit this) that certain knowledge is not to be shared but rather to be hidden. This is similar to the pagan religions like masonry and witchcraft religions; the belief is that certain spiritual knowledge must be hidden from people who are "profane", which means they are not worthy to know that knowledge. Interestingly, that is exactly what mormons will say, that one must be "worthy" (i.e. not profane) to have certain spiritual knowledge revealed to them.

Christianity is not an occult religion. Christianity is an open religion, open to absolutely all people. Every Christian Church and Cathedral is open to all - nobody checks who you are when you enter. You can just go into any of them. All Christian rituals and sacraments are done openly for all to come and witness. Baptism, Marriage, Communion, Confirmation, etc. etc. - all done in the open. The message of the Bible - the Gospel - is the opposite of hiding things, it is to promote and evangelize all things of God.

You can come to NY City, a few blocks from where I work, go into St. Patrick's Cathedral any day, walk all around to all the shrines, walk behind the altar, into the chapels, etc. They have mass every day and you can see it. They do baptisms and other sacraments and tourists mill about as they do it. All is open. All is there for people to be able to see so that they can learn about God and the Gospel. We want people to come to our churches for whatever reason because it all points to God. We believe ALL people are worthy to hear the Gospel and all spiritual knowledge from God's Word because it all supports the Gospel.

Contrast Christian Churches like St. Patrick's to the Salt Lake City Temple - if I go visit Salt Lake City, I can see it from the outside but I am shut out and not allowed in. I am considered by the mormon religion to be profane, not worthy. They consider some 80-90% of their own members to be profane. They exclude their own members and all people from all other religions from their weddings, baptisms, etc. You won't see that at a Christian ritual. At a Christian wedding, guests can be other denominations, other religions like mormon, hindu, buddhist, muslim, jewish, etc. Nothing is hidden by Christians.

This is another stark difference between mormonism and Christianity.

I was invited to a Mormon church during the 1980's. They had a satellite dish on the roof of the church and had a message beamed to them from church headquarters in Salt Lake City. There is a high concentration of Mormons in Utah and Idaho. I traveled through this area and was told they take care of their own poor. Some sort of farm was described where poor Mormons work in the fields and can stay there and be fed.

Unlike some religions, they have a New Testament as part of their scriptures. This may provide some foundation other than the occult as Mormons may find the teachings of Jesus there.

There are allegations of forgery related to the Book of Mormon online. Joseph Smith is recognized as the founder of Mormonism. Smith was accused of numerous crimes including: bank fraud, fornication, illegal banking, polygamy, perjury, treason, inciting a riot, disorderly conduct and two counts of attempted murder.
Joseph Smith and the criminal justice system - Wikipedia

 

[withwonderingawe]

They had a satellite dish on the roof of the church and had a message beamed to them from church headquarters in Salt Lake City.

Ah, general conference happens twice a year

I traveled through this area and was told they take care of their own poor. Some sort of farm was described where poor Mormons work in the fields and can stay there and be fed.

?? Yes we take care of our poor and a lot of other poor people too. However the farms do not have poor Mormons working in the field. At times someone getting assistance and all church members donate time when needed. My brother and his kids have worked in a grape orchard helping to make raisins. I've picked peaches. At the Store Houses those getting assistance can come and work filling orders for others.

Smith was accused of numerous crimes including: bank fraud, fornication, illegal banking, polygamy, perjury, treason, inciting a riot, disorderly conduct and two counts of attempted murder.

And he was never found guilty of any of it!

 

[dqhall]

Ah, general conference happens twice a year



?? Yes we take care of our poor and a lot of other poor people too. However the farms do not have poor Mormons working in the field. At times someone getting assistance and all church members donate time when needed. My brother and his kids have worked in a grape orchard helping to make raisins. I've picked peaches. At the Store Houses those getting assistance can come and work filling orders for others.



And he was never found guilty of any of it!

Supposedly Jospeh Smith was arrested and skipped bail fleeing from jurisdiction after jurisdiction as pending charges were added to his criminal record. He lived as a fugitive from the law until he was eventually arrested and murdered while in jail awaiting trial. Smith was not exonerated of charges against him.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

You understand falsely. Matthew 7:6 is NOT being referenced talking about *you*. It is about the things of God (the pearls). These things are sacred and we strive to keep them that way. It is about reverence to GOD, not about personally insulting you.

It is about the "things of God (the pearls)" - in this case, the handshake test for angels and the experiences with said angels. You are quoting Matthew 7:6 in response to those of us asking you mormons about it. You are telling us, therefore, that you will not cast your "pearls" (i.e. those experiences) before "swine" and "dogs" (i.e. those of us who are non-mormons).

The real insult isn't in being called a dog or a swine (although that IS insulting and really should be reported as a flame right off the bat) - the real insult is that you are making a claim that we are not worthy, in your judgment of us, to have you share your experiences with us. You are telling us that those experiences are sacred and you therefore cannot share them with us. This is the opposite of Christianity in which we share our sacred experiences openly because anything that is faith-promoting and may lead someone to know the Gospel is something we want to share.

Dzheremi shared with you many examples of Christian Saints who had spiritual experiences and shared them with the world. Dzheremi and I and the other Christians here do not consider mormons to be any less worthy than us. We are all unworthy by God's justice and law. We are all made worthy ONLY by the blood of Christ, not by anything we do at all. That is the difference - in mormonism, you believe you can and have to make yourselves worthy by performing works. In Christianity, we understand we are unworthy can can do nothing about it and only Christ can make us worthy by His Sacrifice for our sins. In Christianity, our works are a response to, a reaction to His saving us - they are not a reason for it.

Christ Himself literally commands in multiple times!

Umm.. pardom me, but following Christ's commands, His example, and the example of people such as Mother Mary is 100% part of being a Christian.

Then, by your definition, Christ, the Virgin Mary, and many great people in scripture are "occultic". I respectfully disagree with this outrageous thesis of yours.

None of the examples given show Christ or Mary or anyone commanding the Church (the Christians) to hide any information. None. If I'm wrong, feel free to point it out to me where I missed it. You keep insisting that you've provided examples but I haven't seen one of Christ or Mary or the Disciples or God's Word telling Christians in the Church to hide information. Everything we are told as Christians is about proclaiming His Word to all the world, the four corners of the earth, etc.

 

[Jane_Doe]

None of the examples given show Christ or Mary or anyone commanding the Church (the Christians) to hide any information. None. If I'm wrong, feel free to point it out to me where I missed it. You keep insisting that you've provided examples but I haven't seen one of Christ or Mary or the Disciples or God's Word telling Christians in the Church to hide information.

Matt 17:9... Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

Luke 8: 56 And her parents were astonished: but He [Christ] charged them that they should tell no man what was done.

In both these cases, Christ Himself is specifically commanding information to be withheld. Clearly such is not foreign to true Christianity.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

My family is from Turlock California, I have a nephew who was invited to a basketball camp at a local Christian Church. When he got there it was a deprogram the Mormon boy meeting and yes he was locked in! He was surrounded by their ministers and others all throwing the same false stories you have been throwing out here. They prayed over him and finally told him he was going to hell to burn forever if he didn't accept their Jesus. Didn't work the boy new his scriptures and refuted all of their attacks. My sister was ready to charge them with kidnapping.

Really? Which church was that?

 

[withwonderingawe]

Supposedly Jospeh Smith was arrested and skipped bail fleeing from jurisdiction after jurisdiction as pending charges were added to his criminal record. He lived as a fugitive from the law until he was eventually arrested and murdered while in jail awaiting trial. Smith was not exonerated of charges against him.

At one point Joseph his brother Hyrum were order to be shot without trial but General Doniphan who was in charge replied to the order that it was flat out murder and he would not do it. Joseph and several others were then held illegally in a pit called Liberty Jail. there wa nothing but a buck to pee in and the food was slop. After 6 months they were taken down a road and let go, some call it an escape but the whole thing was totally illegal.

There was a play put on by "Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum and the Illinois Supreme Court Historic Preservation, with involvement from Church History Department scholars and representatives of the Community of Christ and members of the legal community in Illinois."

It looked at the charges made and the legal doctrine of habeas corpus. I went to see it in Salt Lake. It was interesting to see how those opposing Joseph manipulated the court system and how new law was created around the habeas. Stephen Douglas was part of it and Mrs Abraham Lincoln was there also. Joseph did live in hiding because Missouri kept sending people up to arrest him/ kidnap him.

Someone had shot at Governor Boggs, the man who issued the extermination order, but didn't kill him, Joseph was not even in the State but somehow he did it. Porter Rockwell was put in prison but no charges could be proven. They were trying to get him to lie and say Joseph had order it, which he hadn't. Rockwell was eventually released and he made his way back to Nauvoo, he had been starved and had lost so much weight when he came through the door no one recognized him. Many years later he was asked if he shot Boggs and he replied sarcastically 'He's still alive isn't he?' meaning no I wouldn't have missed.

 

[withwonderingawe]

Really? Which church was that?

mmm twenty years ago and I wasn't living close to them, I don't want to name names without really knowing for sure.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I know that I have read posts from various sides that I have taken the author as being prideful, then I remind myself that one can not see facial expression, nor hear their voice.

Early Mormonism and the Magic World View by , D. Michael Quinn is worth reading.

I do remember somewhere that JS was convicted of glass looking.
I think he only got a fine. Maybe, some one else has more information.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Matt 17:9... Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

Luke 8: 56 And her parents were astonished: but He [Christ] charged them that they should tell no man what was done.

In both these cases, Christ Himself is specifically commanding information to be withheld. Clearly such is not foreign to true Christianity.

In both these cases, Christ is talking to specific individuals and not to the Church, not to Christians. Occultism is a systemic practice. It is when an religious or spiritual organization controls the flow of information such that people must work and earn their "worthiness" to receive more information at higher levels. This includes making it off limits to discuss certain things as being "too sacred" to discuss with just anyone - people must be "worthy" for those "sacred" things.

For example, if a pastor or bishop told someone "Please don't tell the others in the congregation about the troubles that Jennifer is having..." that is not "occultism". That is respecting privacy. But if that pastor or bishop says to someone "Do not discuss this doctrine of ours with anybody other than those who are members of the church at X level or with X title", then that is occultism.