LDS Mormonism is Occultism

Jane_Doe

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Most of what Ironhold said, simply isn't true. I was just standing outside in front the Mormon Temple on a public sidewalk one day and was merely discussing "general" theology with a friend (It wasn't even about Mormons), and was accosted by two Mormon "apostles" who came out of the temple doors in suits and informed me if I didn't move on the police would be called. We had only been there maybe ten minutes and were only talking between ourselves, but had apparently been overheard by someone and reported.
I doubt the men who asked you to move were actually Apostles. You probably won't asked to move because of anything you were talking about either, but were simply standing in a place that's not for standing. For example, if you were standing right in front of the Temple that is reserved for wedding photos, you would have been asked to move so people can take wedding photos.
Probably 70% of the police force in Salt Lake are Mormons.
Got a reference for this?
The "recommend" church status can not be conferred by just any Mormon, and it certainly can not be conferred on any non-Mormon person (Christian, or otherwise). Only the Bishop, or an apostle of the church authorized by the Bishop can confer the "recommend" status, and then only to a particularly "devout" adherent to Mormon theology.
Iron hold explained this.
As for their church organization in general, I would compare it most closely to the Mafia, or the Gulan movement in Turkey. They have their hands in almost every aspect of life in SLC, and have infiltrated every state and federal run institution, as well as dominating the local press media with their xenophobic and archaic slave based views towards women as equals.

The Salvation Army Food Bank, Public Housing, Local Businesses, Workfair Food Stamp Office and the City Police all answer to the Mormon Church.
I'm sorry, but you sound very parnoidly biased here.
 
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stephen583

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I'm sorry, but you sound very parnoidly biased here.

Oh ! I'm not paranoid, nor am I wrong about anything I said either. Ask anyone in Salt Lake who isn't a Mormon, and they'll tell you exactly the same thing.
 
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Your Alli

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I posted this as part of a response in another thread but am creating a thread about Mormonism being the Occult so as not to derail that other thread.

When you don't share something, you are hiding it. When it is spiritual in nature, that is occultism. "Occult" means "hidden". Hidden spiritual knowledge is occultism.

Occultism is the hallmark of pagan and "mystery" religions. Mormonism fits into this category because they have the belief (and any mormon will readily admit this) that certain knowledge is not to be shared but rather to be hidden. This is similar to the pagan religions like masonry and witchcraft religions; the belief is that certain spiritual knowledge must be hidden from people who are "profane", which means they are not worthy to know that knowledge. Interestingly, that is exactly what mormons will say, that one must be "worthy" (i.e. not profane) to have certain spiritual knowledge revealed to them.

Christianity is not an occult religion. Christianity is an open religion, open to absolutely all people. Every Christian Church and Cathedral is open to all - nobody checks who you are when you enter. You can just go into any of them. All Christian rituals and sacraments are done openly for all to come and witness. Baptism, Marriage, Communion, Confirmation, etc. etc. - all done in the open. The message of the Bible - the Gospel - is the opposite of hiding things, it is to promote and evangelize all things of God.

You can come to NY City, a few blocks from where I work, go into St. Patrick's Cathedral any day, walk all around to all the shrines, walk behind the altar, into the chapels, etc. They have mass every day and you can see it. They do baptisms and other sacraments and tourists mill about as they do it. All is open. All is there for people to be able to see so that they can learn about God and the Gospel. We want people to come to our churches for whatever reason because it all points to God. We believe ALL people are worthy to hear the Gospel and all spiritual knowledge from God's Word because it all supports the Gospel.

Contrast Christian Churches like St. Patrick's to the Salt Lake City Temple - if I go visit Salt Lake City, I can see it from the outside but I am shut out and not allowed in. I am considered by the mormon religion to be profane, not worthy. They consider some 80-90% of their own members to be profane. They exclude their own members and all people from all other religions from their weddings, baptisms, etc. You won't see that at a Christian ritual. At a Christian wedding, guests can be other denominations, other religions like mormon, hindu, buddhist, muslim, jewish, etc. Nothing is hidden by Christians.

This is another stark difference between mormonism and Christianity.


Why ..?

According to your definition...
and I quote
"Occultism- Hidden spiritual knowledge"

Now nothing is hidden by Christians, for I am a disciple of Christ... and your dislike towards mormans o any religion is offensive.

According to Deuteronomy 29:29
"The "The LORD our God has secrets known to no one. We are not accountable for them, but we and our children are accountable forever for all that he has revealed to us ..."

Now the Lord here is Christ, and He possesses secrets know to no one (hidden spiritual knowledge) ...
"Occult" according to your definition.

Therefore Christianity can be framed wrongfully wrt your definition, and rejected by many, and it is not.

There are more believers of God than non believers, so learn more about the Lord (Christ, who you serve and refrain from that hateful thinking ...


Your Alli
 
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stephen583

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I doubt the men who asked you to move were actually Apostles.

They identified themselves as apostles and were wearing name tags identifying them as apostles. It had their names with the word apostle in black letters right above their names. I'm guessing they were apostles.

They also warned "proselytizing" in front the Temple would be punished with arrest by the police. Odd, since neither of us were proselytizing anyone. If the threat wasn't directed specifically at me and had nothing to do with what I was doing, then I suppose it was just a general warning they give anyone who lingers in front the Temple.

There was no wedding at the time and they didn't mention anything about a wedding inside. Anyway, the side walk is public property, and the Mormons have no business calling the police because someone is standing on a sidewalk. Wedding, or not.

Make all the excuses you want and rationalizations you want ! Disagree and make another post. I know better and everyone who lives in SLC and isn't a Mormon knows better.
 
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stephen583

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Got a reference for this?

A Salt Lake City police officer who wasn't a Mormon informed me of this in person.

I suggest you call the Salt Lake City Police Department at their business, non-emergency phone number, ask to speak to an officer who isn't a Mormon, and ask him.
 
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Ironhold

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I was just standing outside in front the Mormon Temple on a public sidewalk one day

Which sidewalk?

The one on the outside of Temple Square itself, or one across the street?

You see, a few years back Mayor Rocky Anderson - an atheist - made a deal with the church that allowed the church a portion of Main Street next to Temple Square in exchange for property at the edge of town.

So you could well in fact have been standing on what is legally private property. In that case, you could legally have been asked to leave if you were being a nuisance.

and was accosted by two Mormon "apostles"

"Apostles"?

Not, say, facility workers, missionaries, or someone else?

If you were shown pictures, could you point them out?

As for their church organization in general, I would compare it most closely to the Mafia, or the Gulan movement in Turkey. They have their hands in almost every aspect of life in SLC, and have infiltrated every state and federal run institution, as well as dominating the local press media with their xenophobic and archaic slave based views towards women as equals.

Hyperbole, much?

SLC is one of the few places where there are two competing daily newspapers, fer cryin' out loud. The Trib is actually held in high regards for its religion reporting. So that right there is a non-Mormon media source with legs.

And "slave-based views"? Really? Really?

The Salvation Army Food Bank, Public Housing, Local Businesses, Workfair Food Stamp Office and the City Police all answer to the Mormon Church.

[citation needed]

If you doubt all this is true, I suggest you Google the following information. "Salt Lake, The Least Free City In America" and give it a read.

Word of advice:

Telling someone "just Google it" is the same as saying "I don't have any actual information, therefore I yield the floor".
 
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Ironhold

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They identified themselves as apostles and were wearing name tags identifying them as apostles. It had their names with the word apostle in black letters right above their names. I'm guessing they were apostles.

Again - if you were shown pictures, could you point them out?

They also warned "proselytizing" in front the Temple would be punished with arrest by the police. Odd, since neither of us were proselytizing anyone. If the threat wasn't directed specifically at me and had nothing to do with what I was doing, then I suppose it was just a general warning they give anyone who lingers in front the Temple.

As I noted earlier, portions of the area around the temple were given to the church in a land swap in an effort to discourage street preachers from crowding downtown.

..Not because of an effort to silence anyone, but because over the years the street preachers have been - as a whole - behaving in a fashion that makes the Phelps clan seem tame by comparison. There have been numerous reports of individual street preachers seeking out and physically confronting people who are seen going in and out of Temple Square, including such incidents as "people spitting on new brides" and "people putting megaphones up to folks' faces".

Even a number of mainstream Christian preachers in town were getting embarrassed and humiliated, as they were being held accountable by the victims as well as the street preachers themselves.

I mean, you even had folks pretending to wipe themselves with various LDS materials. How does that reflect God's light?

Make all the excuses you want and rationalizations you want ! Disagree and make another post. I know better and everyone who lives in SLC and isn't a Mormon knows better.

Suppose I was to call your bluff, go into my metaphorical Rolodex, and fire off some e-mails...
 
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Ironhold

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A Salt Lake City police officer who wasn't a Mormon informed me of this in person.

I suggest you call the Salt Lake City Police Department at their business, non-emergency phone number, ask to speak to an officer who isn't a Mormon, and ask him.

I can't think of a single police department in America where a request like that will get you anything other than ridicule and perhaps a courtesy visit to check on your tinfoil hat.
 
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stephen583

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I'm sorry, but you sound very parnoidly biased here.

I'm paranoid ?

Two television news specials last week in Salt Lake were; "The Big Five, The Price of Popularity" where KSL News attacked tourists visiting the five biggest state parks in Utah as causing too much litter, traffic congestion, exhaust pollution, sewage in local campgrounds and crime.

The other News Special on channel 9 was titled "Criminals In Uniform" and reported on the 86 cases of sexual assault filed at Hill AFB in 2016.

I watched the entire program. It was filled with distortions and bias, It never gave the number of reported sexual assaults v.s, convictions. Never compared sexual assault statistics in the military to any comparable civilian population. It literally demonized military servicemen in general and portrayed them as sexual predators.

I believe that is the definition of paranoia. It's also the definition of a mental disorder. Characterizing all people in a given group as being evil is a sign mental illness. Ask any psychiatrist.
 
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Ironhold

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Oh, and for the record -

I'm in the media, too.

My weekly movie reviews are in two newspapers, and the flagship paper - www.coveleaderpress.com - also has my weekly column and occasional stringer work. I'm also one of the couriers, a testimony to how small said flagship happens to be (pretty much everyone's wearing multiple hats there).

I've also ventured out into YouTube, with my main channel being a supplement for everything: Shop The Insanity Video Experience .

As you can plainly see by looking at my YouTube page, I don't hide the fact that I'm a member of the church; you can even see that I have "Mormon Channel" in my "subscribed" section. The entire editorial staff at the flagship know I'm a member of the church, and they don't particularly care unless something comes up; rather, they look at the fact that I'm the guy to call when they need someone who can make (metaphorical) miracles happen at work.

So yeah - you're talking to an actual Mormon in the media.
 
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stephen583

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Suppose I was to call your bluff, go into my metaphorical Rolodex, and fire off some e-mails...

Nobody needs a Rolodex. Just get in your car and drive around SLC and look at the billboards with the words plastered on them "SALT LAKE, THE LEAST FREE CITY IN AMERICA" !

Now if I was making all this stuff up.. WHY IS THERE A CAMPAIGN TO FREE SALT LAKE CITY ???

I suppose you figure all the deviate, immoral, non-Mormon citizens in Salt Lake City are behind it, right ? LOL.
 
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Ironhold

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Two television news specials last week in Salt Lake were; "The Big Five, The Price of Popularity" where KSL News attacked tourists visiting the five biggest state parks in Utah as causing too much litter, traffic congestion, exhaust pollution, sewage in local campgrounds and crime.

Actually, these are problems at state parks and national parks nationwide, and have been for some time. For example, Yellowstone had to publish a page noting that human behavior hasn't always been a good thing for the park: Human Impact and the Future - Yellowstone National Park .

It's even a problem in Australia as well, as evidenced by this editorial published through one of their major news outlets: National parks aren't your personal playground .

The other News Special on channel 9 was titled "Criminals In Uniform" and reported on the 86 cases of sexual assault filed at Hill AFB in 2016.

There is in fact a serious problem with sexual assault cases throughout the military. The Military Times has 50+ articles on the matter you can reference as primers if you don't believe me: Military Times - Search Module .

I live next door to Ft. Hood and come from a military family, so yes I do keep up on matters of military news.

Oh, and for the record, I was born at Hill.
 
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Ironhold

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Nobody needs a Rolodex. Just get in your car and drive around SLC and look at the billboards with the words plastered on them "SALT LAKE, THE LEAST FREE CITY IN AMERICA" !

Now if I was making all this stuff up.. WHY IS THERE A CAMPAIGN TO FREE SALT LAKE CITY ???

You can get just about anything on a billboard if you've got the $$$. Doesn't mean a single thing that billboards in and of themselves exist.

That being said, I decided to take a look at the matter and ...

Gee...

It's about city ordinances, local laws, and various governmental regulations.

Think tank: Salt Lakers reside in Utah's least free city

The Libertas Institute describes itself as "a free-market think tank advancing the cause of liberty by supporting and defending individual liberty, private property rights and free enterprise." For its index, the institute used 100 metrics, such as gun restrictions, limits on campaign contributions and animal restrictions, among many others, to analyze 50 Utah municipalities.

In other words, it's not quite what you're making it out to be.
 
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stephen583

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In other words, it's not quite what you're making it out to be.

It's EXACTLY what I'm making it out to be. You are the one trying to distort what it represents.

Hey kids. Did you know the authorities just closed a business in the SLC area last month, because it was showing "R" rated movies on a big screen t.v. to adult audiences while they were served beer ? Ooooo ! How deviant ! Somebody call the Temple Police !!!
 
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Ironhold

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It's EXACTLY what I'm making it out to be.

You're talking about the church controlling everything, yet the campaign is talking about the various city ordinances that are in place.

You've not shown any evidence of any of your claims, let alone a direct causal relationship between what you're trying to argue.
 
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stephen583

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You're talking about the church controlling everything, yet the campaign is talking about the various city ordinances that are in place.

The various ultra-conservative and restrictive city ordinances you refer to WERE PUT IN PLACE BY THE LDS CHURCH pressuring local politicians !

You don't think the LDS Church has an organization that lobbies local politicians with cash contributions and threatens them in the same breath in SLC ? Dude.. What are you smokin ?
 
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Ironhold

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I don't need to post citations

Yes, you do if you ever want to be taken seriously.

Remember -

*Master's degree
*Work for a newspaper
*101-level criminal justice training
*So conservative on some issues I'm a Reaganite

Yeah. Facts carry the day with me, not feels.
 
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stephen583

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Lemme tell everyone how the LDS Church operates in SLC. They get their hooks into single homeless women who come into contact with them through social service organizations like the homeless shelter and the salvation army and offer them assistance.

They help them get public housing, food stamps, furniture for their apartment, vouchers and jobs. Once the woman is comfortable in her new life and has something to lose, they come knocking at the door twice a week with the "OTHER TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST" Mormon Bible in their hands for indoctrination.

When the woman is fit for "recommendation", and exhibits a devout attitude, they next introduce her to some LDS stranger who's going to become her new husband. If they refuse to marry,, well their lives are destroyed by the Church.

That kids is the very definition of "coercive servitude". In other words.. SLAVERY !
 
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