LDS Mormon Teachings About Hell

He is the way

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Seems like you muddle up what the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost is.
This is what you claimed

The Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit---He is the Way

where do you find "personage of the Holy Ghost" in this verse?

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

We start out in Believing that One God is in the Father, the Word {Jesus Christ] and the Holy Spirit which are definitely ONE. So many other verse attest to that simple fact.

We are given the Spirit of Truth---- as another name of the Holy Spirit

John 16:13
However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

The verses you posted are warnings about how we can quench the Holy Spirit and even ways to check ourselves, but that Spirit does not leave once we receive it.




Yes the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one as stated in the Bible:

(New Testament | John 17:11 - 23)

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

You said: "Spirit does not leave once we receive it."

Why did you say that? Did you make that up?

The spirit will not stay with those who walk after the flesh:

(New Testament | Romans 8:4 - 10)

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
 
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Jamesone5

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Yes the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one as stated in the Bible:

(New Testament | John 17:11 - 23)

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

You said: "Spirit does not leave once we receive it."

Why did you say that? Did you make that up?

The spirit will not stay with those who walk after the flesh:

(New Testament | Romans 8:4 - 10)

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

You questioned my take on whether the spirit can leave us

2 Corinthians 1:22
who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

A guarantee is something that will never leaves us as long as we keep our eyes on Christ.

John 17:11

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

The last part---we are [ONE]--what does that mean, before we get to the question of that they may be one?
 
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He is the way

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You questioned my take on whether the spirit can leave us

2 Corinthians 1:22
who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

A guarantee is something that will never leaves us as long as we keep our eyes on Christ.

John 17:11

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

The last part---we are [ONE]--what does that mean, before we get to the question of that they may be one?
(New Testament | 2 Corinthians 1:22)

Is about Paul, Silvanus and Timotheus and as you said: "that will never leaves us as long as we keep our eyes on Christ." There is no guarantee for those who turn from the commandments:

(New Testament | 2 Peter 2:21 - 22)

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

So we are back to the question of how Christ and the Father are one. They are one in glory and perfection which gift will be given to the righteous:

(New Testament | John 17:5)

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

(New Testament | John 17:22)

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

(New Testament | John 17:23)

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
 
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Jamesone5

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(New Testament | 2 Corinthians 1:22)

Is about Paul, Silvanus and Timotheus and as you said: "that will never leaves us as long as we keep our eyes on Christ." There is no guarantee for those who turn from the commandments:

(New Testament | 2 Peter 2:21 - 22)

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

So we are back to the question of how Christ and the Father are one. They are one in glory and perfection which gift will be given to the righteous:

(New Testament | John 17:5)

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

(New Testament | John 17:22)

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

(New Testament | John 17:23)

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

So, it still is "keep our eyes on Christ". I am not sure what you are arguing here.

(New Testament | John 17:22)

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one


Combined with this verse:
John 1:1-2
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.

John of course, made the case that there is only one God in the Father, the Son [or the Word] and the Holy Spirit.

Even as We are one is a declaratory statement of fact, by the way. The they may be one is in this verse

Ephesians 4:5
one Lord, one faith, one baptism;



 
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He is the way

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So, it still is "keep our eyes on Christ". I am not sure what you are arguing here.

(New Testament | John 17:22)

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one


Combined with this verse:
John 1:1-2
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.

John of course, made the case that there is only one God in the Father, the Son [or the Word] and the Holy Spirit.

Even as We are one is a declaratory statement of fact, by the way. The they may be one is in this verse

Ephesians 4:5
one Lord, one faith, one baptism;



They are not one in essence or substance. Jesus taught that they are one in glory and perfection. I agree with Jesus and not the precepts of man. The Holy Ghost will stay with those who keep the commandments:

(New Testament | John 14:12 - 17)

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
 
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Jamesone5

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They are not one in essence or substance. Jesus taught that they are one in glory and perfection. I agree with Jesus and not the precepts of man. The Holy Ghost will stay with those who keep the commandments:

(New Testament | John 14:12 - 17)

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
You said God and Christ are not one in essence and substance


Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

This verse and others seem to disagree with you.
And yet you were taught by the precepts of man [just as I was at one time]---Joseph Smith.
 
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He is the way

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You said God and Christ are not one in essence and substance


Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

This verse and others seem to disagree with you.
And yet you were taught by the precepts of man [just as I was at one time]---Joseph Smith.
Other scriptures seem to agree with me:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 8:6)

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

(New Testament | John 20:17)

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

(New Testament | John 14:28)

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
 
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Jamesone5

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Other scriptures seem to agree with me:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 8:6)

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

(New Testament | John 20:17)

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

(New Testament | John 14:28)

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Other Scriptures? like those which seem to agree with you? And then, what do you do with the others, like this one?

Hebrews 1:3 {NET}
The Son is the radiance of his glory and the representation of his essence, and he sustains all things by his powerful word, and so when he had accomplished cleansing for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high

John 3:34 [VOICE]
The One sent from God speaks with the very words of God and abounds with the very Spirit and essence of God.


You still contend that God and Jesus Christ are not one in at least essence
 
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He is the way

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Other Scriptures? like those which seem to agree with you? And then, what do you do with the others, like this one?

Hebrews 1:3 {NET}
The Son is the radiance of his glory and the representation of his essence, and he sustains all things by his powerful word, and so when he had accomplished cleansing for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high

John 3:34 [VOICE]

The One sent from God speaks with the very words of God and abounds with the very Spirit and essence of God.


You still contend that God and Jesus Christ are not one in at least essence
Sorry but I do not subscribe to those translations of the Bible. They seem to be off the mark.

(New Testament | Hebrews 1:3)

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;


(New Testament | John 3:34)

34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Also compare:

(Old Testament | Isaiah 61:1)

1 THE Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
 
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Jamesone5

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Sorry I do not think you refusal to consider other versions valid--especially when you "get off the range" in quoting different versions in some of your responses.

Hebrews 1:1-3 (NKJV)
1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

These verses are referring to God the Father and the Son, Jesus Christ. Seems that in interpretation, you are agreeing with me as to Both having the same essence.


(New Testament | John 3:34)

34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Here again--it seems that God and then the Son, who He sent---would have the same essence to speak the words of God.

And the last verse you quoted is Isaiah 61:1. This is part of what Jesus Himself quoted in the forth Chapter of Luke and proves nothing here about different essences.

Remember, you still contend that God and Jesus Christ are not one in at least essence

 
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He is the way

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Sorry I do not think you refusal to consider other versions valid--especially when you "get off the range" in quoting different versions in some of your responses.

Hebrews 1:1-3 (NKJV)
1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

These verses are referring to God the Father and the Son, Jesus Christ. Seems that in interpretation, you are agreeing with me as to Both having the same essence.


(New Testament | John 3:34)

34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Here again--it seems that God and then the Son, who He sent---would have the same essence to speak the words of God.

And the last verse you quoted is Isaiah 61:1. This is part of what Jesus Himself quoted in the forth Chapter of Luke and proves nothing here about different essences.

Remember, you still contend that God and Jesus Christ are not one in at least essence
It all depends on what you mean by essence. Are you saying they are of the same nature or are you saying they are of the same substance?
 
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Jamesone5

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It all depends on what you mean by essence. Are you saying they are of the same nature or are you saying they are of the same substance?


Essence--- as you said they do not share the same essence.

Please pay attention.
 
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He is the way

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Essence--- as you said they do not share the same essence.

Please pay attention.
The first Nicene Creed used the term substance when comparing the Father and the Son:

"And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (æons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father;"

From: Nicene Creed - Wikipedia

It was later changed to consubstantial:

"I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;"

Later it was changed to essence depending on which Church people belong to:

"And in the One Lord Jesus Christ, the Only-Begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all world, Light of Light, True God of True God, begotten, not made, being of one essence with the Father, and by Whom all things were made; Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven;"

From: English versions of the Nicene Creed - Wikipedia

Words can have several meanings so I would like you to clarify what you mean by essence.
 
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Andrewn

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The first Nicene Creed used the term substance when comparing the Father and the Son:

It was later changed to consubstantial:

Later it was changed to essence depending on which Church people belong to:
The original Creed is written in Greek. The original word under consideration is "ousia" and the word "essence" is the best translation of the Greek. As you noted, the meaning of the word "essence" is rather vague. In Latin the Creed uses "substantia" which is transliterated into "substance" but this is not what "ousia" means in modern English. The best English translation is the 1975 International Consultation on English Texts. In it, "ousia" is translated into "being:"

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
 
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Jamesone5

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The first Nicene Creed used the term substance when comparing the Father and the Son:

"And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (æons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father;"

From: Nicene Creed - Wikipedia

It was later changed to consubstantial:

"I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;"

Later it was changed to essence depending on which Church people belong to:

"And in the One Lord Jesus Christ, the Only-Begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all world, Light of Light, True God of True God, begotten, not made, being of one essence with the Father, and by Whom all things were made; Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven;"

From: English versions of the Nicene Creed - Wikipedia

Words can have several meanings so I would like you to clarify what you mean by essence.

He is the way said:
They are not one in essence or substance. Jesus taught that they are one in glory and perfection. I agree with Jesus and not the precepts of man. The Holy Ghost will stay with those who keep the commandments

I do not have to clarify anything----as it seems like your task here is to prove your allegation.

And to prove that these precepts of man in Joseph Smith are not what you are following.
 
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He is the way

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The original Creed is written in Greek. The original word under consideration is "ousia" and the word "essence" is the best translation of the Greek. As you noted, the meaning of the word "essence" is rather vague. In Latin the Creed uses "substantia" which is transliterated into "substance" but this is not what "ousia" means in modern English. The best English translation is the 1975 International Consultation on English Texts. In it, "ousia" is translated into "being:"

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
"of one Being with the Father" is not Biblical.
 
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Andrewn

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"of one Being with the Father" is not Biblical.
We can readily prove that Christ is Yahweh and LDS believe this already. The problem is that you don't believe that Yahweh is also the Heavenly Father or Elohim.
 
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He is the way

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He is the way said:
They are not one in essence or substance. Jesus taught that they are one in glory and perfection. I agree with Jesus and not the precepts of man. The Holy Ghost will stay with those who keep the commandments

I do not have to clarify anything----as it seems like your task here is to prove your allegation.

And to prove that these precepts of man in Joseph Smith are not what you are following.
I have already proven my allegation. Jesus taught us how He and the Father are one. He did not say that He was of one essence/substance with the Father.
 
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Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
We can readily prove that Christ Yahweh and LDS believe this already. That problem is that you don't believe that Yahweh is also the Heavenly Father or Elohim.
We believe that Jehovah of the Old Testament is Jesus, but not God the Father.
 
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