LDS Mormon Jesus Versus Christian Jesus

[Ironhold]

If Mormons deny Adam is God, do they deny Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are gods ?​

We've already gone over "G" vs. "g", so this argument makes no sense.

Or did you read any of that?

 

[Christian Apologist]

We've already gone over "G" vs. "g", so this argument makes no sense.

Or did you read any of that?

So do you agree with Brigham Young that Adam is our God ?

Mormon quotes about Adam God theory

 

[Ironhold]

So do you agree with Brigham Young that Adam is our God ?

Mormon quotes about Adam God theory

Did your research turn up the fact that Young eventually said, to paraphrase, "None of you are getting what I'm saying, so skip it."?

?

 

[Christian Apologist]

Did your research turn up the fact that Young eventually said, to paraphrase, "None of you are getting what I'm saying, so skip it."?

?

The Book of Mormon agrees with the Creeds and disagrees with LDS leaders like Smith and Young

The Truth about Mormonism: The 4th and 5th century Creeds

 

[He is the way]

Substantia

There were two major Latin words involved. The first is substantia, Although the word was idiomatically to mean “goods” or “property” and in a legal sense to denote “ that to which two or more parties could share legal claim,” there never was never much doubt as to what the Church Fathers intended when using substantia was simply the being of God. Thus to say , with the Latin orthodox theologians, that Father,Son, and Spirit were consubstantialis was to say that they shared the same basic “thing” or “what” that they were: namely, they were God.

Godhead, God, substance Essence and Being all synonyms

The Book of Mormon even teaches that

2 Nephi 31:

21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.



Alma 11:

44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.





Mormon 7:

7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.



The Testimony of Three Witnesses

And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.

Oliver Cowdery

David Whitmer

Martin Harris



1 Nephi 13: 41 And they must come according to the words which shall be established by the mouth of the Lamb; and the words of the Lamb shall be made known in the records of thy seed, as well as in the records of the twelve apostles of the Lamb; wherefore they both shall be established in one; for there is one God and one Shepherd over all the earth.



Doctrine and Covenants 20 :

28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.

The difference here is that they are one God in purpose and not one God in substance or essence as was later taught by the creeds. The word Elohim is plural. Therefore God or Gods is appropriate.

 

[Christian Apologist]

The difference here is that they are one God in purpose and not one God in substance or essence as was later taught by the creeds. The word Elohim is plural. Therefore God or Gods is appropriate.

Substantia

There were two major Latin words involved. The first is substantia, Although the word was idiomatically to mean “goods” or “property” and in a legal sense to denote “ that to which two or more parties could share legal claim,” there never was never much doubt as to what the Church Fathers intended when using substantia was simply the being of God. Thus to say , with the Latin orthodox theologians, that Father,Son, and Spirit were consubstantialis was to say that they shared the same basic “thing” or “what” that they were: namely, they were God.

Godhead, God, substance Essence and Being all synonyms

 

[He is the way]

Substantia

There were two major Latin words involved. The first is substantia, Although the word was idiomatically to mean “goods” or “property” and in a legal sense to denote “ that to which two or more parties could share legal claim,” there never was never much doubt as to what the Church Fathers intended when using substantia was simply the being of God. Thus to say , with the Latin orthodox theologians, that Father,Son, and Spirit were consubstantialis was to say that they shared the same basic “thing” or “what” that they were: namely, they were God.

Godhead, God, substance Essence and Being all synonyms

Deflection.

 

[Christian Apologist]

Deflection.

Why would that be a deflection when that's what is meant by ONE IN SUBSTANCE or ONE GOD

 

[Christian Apologist]

Deflection.

Why would that be a deflection when that's what is meant by ONE IN SUBSTANCE or ONE GOD

View attachment 256779 View attachment 256779

 

[Christian Apologist]

Deflection.

Why would that be a deflection when that's what is meant by ONE IN SUBSTANCE or ONE GODView attachment 256779 View attachment 256779

 

[He is the way]

Why would that be a deflection when that's what is meant by ONE IN SUBSTANCE or ONE GOD

View attachment 256779

You said: "Why would that be a deflection when that's what is meant by ONE IN SUBSTANCE or ONE GOD"

sub·stance
/ˈsəbstəns/
noun

1. 1.
   a particular kind of matter with uniform properties.
   "a steel tube coated with a waxy substance"
   synonyms: material, matter, stuff, medium, fabric
   "an organic substance"
2. 2.
   the real physical matter of which a person or thing consists and which has a tangible, solid presence.
   "proteins compose much of the actual substance of the body"
   synonyms: solidity, body, corporeality, reality, actuality, materiality, concreteness, tangibility;

 

[Christian Apologist]

You said: "Why would that be a deflection when that's what is meant by ONE IN SUBSTANCE or ONE GOD"

sub·stance
/ˈsəbstəns/
noun

1. 
   
   
   • 1.
     a particular kind of matter with uniform properties.
     "a steel tube coated with a waxy substance"
     synonyms: material, matter, stuff, medium, fabric
     "an organic substance"
   • 2.
     the real physical matter of which a person or thing consists and which has a tangible, solid presence.
     "proteins compose much of the actual substance of the body"
     synonyms: solidity, body, corporeality, reality, actuality, materiality, concreteness, tangibility;

Substance come from the Latin word

Substantia

There were two major Latin words involved. The first is substantia, Although the word was idiomatically to mean “goods” or “property” and in a legal sense to denote “ that to which two or more parties could share legal claim,” there never was never much doubt as to what the Church Fathers intended when using substantia was simply the being of God. Thus to say , with the Latin orthodox theologians, that Father,Son, and Spirit were consubstantialis was to say that they shared the same basic “thing” or “what” that they were: namely, they were God.

Godhead, God, substance Essence and Being all synonyms

 

[Peter1000]

So your saying the Holy Spirit is not fully God since he has not followed that process ? The Book of Mormon completely disagrees, notice how the Book of Mormon and D&C place them in equal status

Alma 11:

44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.

Doctrine and Covenants 20 :

28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.

When the mission of the Holy Ghost is complete, he too will go through the same process as God the Father and Jesus went through and will be completed and whole and in the same form as the other two members of the Godhead. It is paramount that in order to be whole and complete and have of the fullness of the Father, we must have a body of flesh and bone and spirit and be exalted beings. The Holy Ghost will have his chance later.

 

[Christian Apologist]

When the mission of the Holy Ghost is complete, he too will go through the same process as God the Father and Jesus went through and will be completed and whole and in the same form as the other two members of the Godhead. It is paramount that in order to be whole and complete and have of the fullness of the Father, we must have a body of flesh and bone and spirit and be exalted beings. The Holy Ghost will have his chance later.

Is that official Mormon Doctrine or made up opinion in your mind ? If it's official please link it from official site

 

[Peter1000]

Substantia

There were two major Latin words involved. The first is substantia, Although the word was idiomatically to mean “goods” or “property” and in a legal sense to denote “ that to which two or more parties could share legal claim,” there never was never much doubt as to what the Church Fathers intended when using substantia was simply the being of God. Thus to say , with the Latin orthodox theologians, that Father,Son, and Spirit were consubstantialis was to say that they shared the same basic “thing” or “what” that they were: namely, they were God.

Godhead, God, substance Essence and Being all synonyms

The Book of Mormon even teaches that

2 Nephi 31:

21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.



Alma 11:

44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.





Mormon 7:

7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.



The Testimony of Three Witnesses

And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.

Oliver Cowdery

David Whitmer

Martin Harris



1 Nephi 13: 41 And they must come according to the words which shall be established by the mouth of the Lamb; and the words of the Lamb shall be made known in the records of thy seed, as well as in the records of the twelve apostles of the Lamb; wherefore they both shall be established in one; for there is one God and one Shepherd over all the earth.



Doctrine and Covenants 20 :

28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.

These BOM scriptures all state that God the Father and Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are one God, which indeed they are. So what is the problem.

We know from other JS writings that although they are one God, they are not one in substantia or are they consubstantial. They are one in purpose.

You have to read all of JS writings to know the whole truth clearly. Not just some. It is like that in the Bible. You must read all of the scriptures that identify the nature of God, and not some 2 or 3 that fit your theology.

Answer this: How can we as believers in Christ become one with each other, as God and Jesus and the Holy Ghost are one with each other? There is only 1 answer, so tell me?

 

[Christian Apologist]

These BOM scriptures all state that God the Father and Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are one God, which indeed they are. So what is the problem.

We know from other JS writings that although they are one God, they are not one in substantia or are they consubstantial. They are one in purpose.

You have to read all of JS writings to know the whole truth clearly. Not just some. It is like that in the Bible. You must read all of the scriptures that identify the nature of God, and not some 2 or 3 that fit your theology.

Answer this: How can we as believers in Christ become one with each other, as God and Jesus and the Holy Ghost are one with each other? There is only 1 answer, so tell me?

So you admit the Book of Mormon agrees with my theology ​

 

[Christian Apologist]

So you admit the Book of Mormon agrees with my theology ​

The Bible is clear the Trinity teaches all the persons of the Godhead are separate and distinct and all can be prayed too

 

[He is the way]

Substance come from the Latin word

Substantia

There were two major Latin words involved. The first is substantia, Although the word was idiomatically to mean “goods” or “property” and in a legal sense to denote “ that to which two or more parties could share legal claim,” there never was never much doubt as to what the Church Fathers intended when using substantia was simply the being of God. Thus to say , with the Latin orthodox theologians, that Father,Son, and Spirit were consubstantialis was to say that they shared the same basic “thing” or “what” that they were: namely, they were God.

Godhead, God, substance Essence and Being all synonyms

Homoousios
CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY
WRITTEN BY:

• The Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica

See Article History
Homoousios, in Christianity, the key term of the Christological doctrine formulated at the first ecumenical council, at Nicaea in 325, to affirm that God the Son and God the Father are of the same substance. The Council of Nicaea, presided over by the emperor Constantine, was convened to resolve the controversy within the church over the relationship between the persons of the Trinity. The council condemned Arianism, which taught that Christ was more than human but not fully divine. The use of homoousios (Greek: “of one substance”) in the Nicene Creed was meant to put an end to the controversy, although the influence of Arianism persisted in the church for centuries. In 381 Emperor Theodosius I summoned the second ecumenical council, the first Council of Constantinople, which produced a creed that also contained the word homoousios and became the definitive statement of orthodox belief.
From: Homoousios | Christian theology

 

[Christian Apologist]

View attachment 256245

Below is a description of the Jesus I worship ​

Jesus Stripped his equality, wealth, Joy and Glory with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit and humbled himself to the form of a servant .

”Who although being essentially one with God and in the Form of God {possessing the fullness of the attributes which make GOD GOD} did not think this equality with God was a thing to be grasped or retained.” Philippians 2:6 Amplified version

“For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.” 2 Cor. 8:9

Hebrews 12

1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

In the original language “for the joy” means “he exchanged Joy for Shame”.



John 17
“Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Thank you Jesus for coming down from your throne in heaven where you were the Almighty God, “EL SHADDAI”, The Great I AM creator of all things in heaven and earth, visible and invisible, thrones, dominions, and principalities and powers . You were rich yet you became poor. You were Almighty yet you emptied yourself and became a humble servant, you exchanged joy for sorrow , sorrow by dying a shameful death on a cross as a criminal even thou you had no sin . Thank you Jesus

 

[Peter1000]

Below is a description of the Jesus I worship ​

Jesus Stripped his equality, wealth, Joy and Glory with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit and humbled himself to the form of a servant .

”Who although being essentially one with God and in the Form of God {possessing the fullness of the attributes which make GOD GOD} did not think this equality with God was a thing to be grasped or retained.” Philippians 2:6 Amplified version

“For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.” 2 Cor. 8:9

Hebrews 12

1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

In the original language “for the joy” means “he exchanged Joy for Shame”.



John 17
“Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Thank you Jesus for coming down from your throne in heaven where you were the Almighty God, “EL SHADDAI”, The Great I AM creator of all things in heaven and earth, visible and invisible, thrones, dominions, and principalities and powers . You were rich yet you became poor. You were Almighty yet you emptied yourself and became a humble servant, you exchanged joy for sorrow , sorrow by dying a shameful death on a cross as a criminal even thou you had no sin . Thank you Jesus

Although we acknowledge and love Jesus for giving up his glory and coming to earth to die on the cross, and suffering for us, we look more to his exalted, perfect, resurrected body of flesh and bone and spirit.

We know now that he is fully God with all the attributes that his God, and his Father, God the Father has.(John 20:17) We acknowledge his lowly status and are thankful for his sacrifice. But we see his glorious status now, and look forward to being like him in our exalted, perfect, resurrected bodies of flesh and bone and spirit.

We acknowledge Jesus's Godhood in his pre-earth life, we acknowledge Jesus's lowly servant status during his ministry, and we acknowledge his Godhood status after his resurrection.

Thank you Jesus.