LDS Mormon Heavenly Father

[Rescued One]

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: “Our Father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a Father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:47).

The Bible says:

Isaiah 44:8
Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

God doesn't lie! And He is omniscient.

If your father was a man, would you say there is no man?

 

[He is the way]

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: “Our Father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a Father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:47).

The Bible says:

Isaiah 44:8
Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

God doesn't lie! And He is omniscient.

If your father was a man, would you say there is no man?

The Bible also says:
(Old Testament | Genesis 3:22)

22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

(New Testament | John 1:1 - 2)

1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.

However we are to understand that Jesus Christ was the God of Israel and their only saviour:

(Old Testament | Isaiah 43:10 - 11)

10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

 

[Rescued One]

One God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) is our Savior.

The Mormon jesus saying, "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me." was a liar. Mormons don't pray to their jesus; they pray to another god.

Mormon Scripture, Pearl of Great Price, Moses 1
37 And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine.

38 And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words.

39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

"And the Lord God spake unto Moses" refers to which Mormon god?

Let's look at more of that fictitious chapter and determine which of many gods Joseph Smith was referencing:

25 And calling upon the name of God, he[Moses] beheld his glory again, for it was upon him; and he heard a voice, saying: Blessed art thou, Moses, for I, the Almighty, have chosen thee, and thou shalt be made stronger than many waters; for they shall obey thy command as if thou wert God.

26 And lo, I am with thee, even unto the end of thy days; for thou shalt deliver my people from bondage, even Israel my chosen.

27 And it came to pass, as the voice was still speaking, Moses cast his eyes and beheld the earth, yea, even all of it; and there was not a particle of it which he did not behold, discerning it by the Spirit of God.

28 And he beheld also the inhabitants thereof, and there was not a soul which he beheld not; and he discerned them by the Spirit of God; and their numbers were great, even numberless as the sand upon the sea shore.

29 And he beheld many lands; and each land was called earth, and there were inhabitants on the face thereof.

30 And it came to pass that Moses called upon God, saying: Tell me, I pray thee, why these things are so, and by what thou madest them?

31 And behold, the glory of the Lord was upon Moses, so that Moses stood in the presence of God, and talked with him face to face. And the Lord God said unto Moses: For mine own purpose have I made these things. Here is wisdom and it remaineth in me.

32 And by the word of my power, have I created them, which is mine Only Begotten Son, who is full of grace and truth.

Again, who is speaking to the Mormon moses in this chapter?

If it is is the father, you will recall that he said:

39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

In Mormon scripture, does this father's work save men?

 

[He is the way]

One God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) is our Savior.

The Mormon jesus saying, "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me." was a liar. Mormons don't pray to their jesus; they pray to another god.

Mormon Scripture, Pearl of Great Price, Moses 1
37 And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine.

38 And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words.

39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

"And the Lord God spake unto Moses" refers to which Mormon god?

Let's look at more of that fictitious chapter and determine which of many gods Joseph Smith was referencing:

25 And calling upon the name of God, he[Moses] beheld his glory again, for it was upon him; and he heard a voice, saying: Blessed art thou, Moses, for I, the Almighty, have chosen thee, and thou shalt be made stronger than many waters; for they shall obey thy command as if thou wert God.

26 And lo, I am with thee, even unto the end of thy days; for thou shalt deliver my people from bondage, even Israel my chosen.

27 And it came to pass, as the voice was still speaking, Moses cast his eyes and beheld the earth, yea, even all of it; and there was not a particle of it which he did not behold, discerning it by the Spirit of God.

28 And he beheld also the inhabitants thereof, and there was not a soul which he beheld not; and he discerned them by the Spirit of God; and their numbers were great, even numberless as the sand upon the sea shore.

29 And he beheld many lands; and each land was called earth, and there were inhabitants on the face thereof.

30 And it came to pass that Moses called upon God, saying: Tell me, I pray thee, why these things are so, and by what thou madest them?

31 And behold, the glory of the Lord was upon Moses, so that Moses stood in the presence of God, and talked with him face to face. And the Lord God said unto Moses: For mine own purpose have I made these things. Here is wisdom and it remaineth in me.

32 And by the word of my power, have I created them, which is mine Only Begotten Son, who is full of grace and truth.

Again, who is speaking to the Mormon moses in this chapter?

If it is is the father, you will recall that he said:

39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

In Mormon scripture, does this father's work save men?

Jesus said:

(New Testament | John 14:28)

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

 

[Rescued One]

Because of his ministry on Earth, Jesus was limited by the incarnation—he’s going to the cross; he’s going to die—but he’s about to return to the Father and to the glory he had with the Father before the world began, as seen in verses like John 17:5.
—Adapted from interview with Dr. D. A. Carson

In Jerusalem, Jesus healed a man on the Sabbath.
John 5:8 Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk. 9 And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath. 10 The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed. 11 He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk. 12 Then asked they him, What man is that which said unto thee, Take up thy bed, and walk? 13 And he that was healed wist not who it was: for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place. 14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee. 15 The man departed, and told the Jews that it was Jesus, which had made him whole.

16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. 17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.



Finally, all three Persons are associated together on an equal basis in numerous passages:

• Jesus' baptism—Matthew 3:13-17 (voice of the Father, Son baptized, Spirit descending like a dove).
• Salvation—1 Peter 1:2 (chosen by the Father, sanctified by the Spirit, sprinkled with the blood of Jesus).
• Sanctification—2 Corinthians 13:14 (grace of the Lord Jesus, love of God, fellowship of the Holy Spirit).
• Christian Baptism—Matthew 28:19 (baptized in one name, yet three Persons—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).
• Prayer—Ephesians 3:14-21 (strengthened by his Spirit, know the love of Christ, filled with the fullness of God)
• Christian Growth—2 Thessalonians 2:13 (chosen by God, loved by the Lord, sanctified by the Spirit).

God in Three Persons: A Doctrine We Barely Understand

 

[He is the way]

Because of his ministry on Earth, Jesus was limited by the incarnation—he’s going to the cross; he’s going to die—but he’s about to return to the Father and to the glory he had with the Father before the world began, as seen in verses like John 17:5.
—Adapted from interview with Dr. D. A. Carson

In Jerusalem, Jesus healed a man on the Sabbath.
John 5:8 Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk. 9 And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath. 10 The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed. 11 He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk. 12 Then asked they him, What man is that which said unto thee, Take up thy bed, and walk? 13 And he that was healed wist not who it was: for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place. 14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee. 15 The man departed, and told the Jews that it was Jesus, which had made him whole.

16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. 17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.



Finally, all three Persons are associated together on an equal basis in numerous passages:

• Jesus' baptism—Matthew 3:13-17 (voice of the Father, Son baptized, Spirit descending like a dove).
• Salvation—1 Peter 1:2 (chosen by the Father, sanctified by the Spirit, sprinkled with the blood of Jesus).
• Sanctification—2 Corinthians 13:14 (grace of the Lord Jesus, love of God, fellowship of the Holy Spirit).
• Christian Baptism—Matthew 28:19 (baptized in one name, yet three Persons—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).
• Prayer—Ephesians 3:14-21 (strengthened by his Spirit, know the love of Christ, filled with the fullness of God)
• Christian Growth—2 Thessalonians 2:13 (chosen by God, loved by the Lord, sanctified by the Spirit).

God in Three Persons: A Doctrine We Barely Understand

As you said, they are three persons and one God (plural).

 

[drstevej]

As you said, they are three persons and one God (plural).

Heavenly Mom once again is left in the basement.

 

[Peter1000]

Because of his ministry on Earth, Jesus was limited by the incarnation—he’s going to the cross; he’s going to die—but he’s about to return to the Father and to the glory he had with the Father before the world began, as seen in verses like John 17:5.
—Adapted from interview with Dr. D. A. Carson

In Jerusalem, Jesus healed a man on the Sabbath.
John 5:8 Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk. 9 And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath. 10 The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed. 11 He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk. 12 Then asked they him, What man is that which said unto thee, Take up thy bed, and walk? 13 And he that was healed wist not who it was: for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place. 14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee. 15 The man departed, and told the Jews that it was Jesus, which had made him whole.

16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. 17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.



Finally, all three Persons are associated together on an equal basis in numerous passages:

• Jesus' baptism—Matthew 3:13-17 (voice of the Father, Son baptized, Spirit descending like a dove).
• Salvation—1 Peter 1:2 (chosen by the Father, sanctified by the Spirit, sprinkled with the blood of Jesus).
• Sanctification—2 Corinthians 13:14 (grace of the Lord Jesus, love of God, fellowship of the Holy Spirit).
• Christian Baptism—Matthew 28:19 (baptized in one name, yet three Persons—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).
• Prayer—Ephesians 3:14-21 (strengthened by his Spirit, know the love of Christ, filled with the fullness of God)
• Christian Growth—2 Thessalonians 2:13 (chosen by God, loved by the Lord, sanctified by the Spirit).

God in Three Persons: A Doctrine We Barely Understand

John 5:19 is proof that Jesus could do nothing but what he seeth his Father do. When did the Father get born of a virgin, heal the sick, raise the dead, die and be resurrected?

Jesus can only do those things which the Jesus saw the Father do. When did Jesus's Father do these things that Jesus saw and followed?

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Are the Mormons here admitting that Heavenly Father actually had a Father? If not, why contest or seek to defend the idea?

 

[Peter1000]

Are the Mormons here admitting that Heavenly Father actually had a Father? If not, why contest or seek to defend the idea?

We do believe that God our Father had a Father, just like Jesus had a Father and did only those things which he saw his Father do.
Answer the question: When did Jesus's Father do the things that Jesus saw him do? (John 5:19)

Remember: John 20:17 Jesus tells us that his Father is the same as our Father and that his God is the same as our God. Proving that God the Father was not only Jesus's Father, but was Jesus's God.

And when Jesus said that he was going to ascend to his Father and his God, that is proof that they are not physically one. They are one in some way spiritually or in essence, but if they were to physically stand next to each other there would be space between them, such as when Jesus standing next to God when Stephen saw them. John 20:17 confirms the reality of Acts 7:55-56.

They are one God in purpose. That is how we can be one with them, because our goals and purposes can be the same as theirs.

 

[dzheremi]

Any number of people who are in no way divine can be "one in purpose" and have the same goals, like if they're working on a team project at work or at school. Is there anything in the Mormon theological position that addresses this?

 

[Peter1000]

Any number of people who are in no way divine can be "one in purpose" and have the same goals, like if they're working on a team project at work or at school. Is there anything in the Mormon theological position that addresses this?

If anyone is 'one' with God and Jesus, and have the same goals as God and Jesus, they will be saved. Jesus is the centerpiece. If you are not 'one' with Jesus, you will not be saved. The ordinances are important too, but they can be performed in this life or in the world of spirits. But it is your heart and mind that must be 'one' with Jesus. He it is that you must believe in. He it is that you must follow. He it is that you must become like to be saved.

So if a person dies, and knows nothing of Jesus, but inwardly has acted like Jesus, and loves his fellow man, he can learn all there is about Jesus in the world of spirits and have the ordinances done by proxy in the flesh world and can be saved with Jesus in his kingdom forever and ever.

 

[Rescued One]

...So if a person dies, and knows nothing of Jesus, but inwardly has acted like Jesus, and loves his fellow man, he can learn all there is about Jesus in the world of spirits and have the ordinances done by proxy in the flesh world and can be saved with Jesus in his kingdom forever and ever.

All are sinners. They can't be like Jesus without the Holy Spirit. Your teachings are not biblical.

 

[He is the way]

All are sinners. They can't be like Jesus without the Holy Spirit. Your teachings are not biblical.

All are sinners, but we don't need to continue down the path to destruction. The path of LOVE is a much better path and will take us to God. The Bible teaches us that we must repent, be baptized and come unto Christ. We can learn the way of LOVE.

 

[Rescued One]

Love of false gods, false prophets false teachings, and false ordinances leads to hell.

Galatians 1
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

[Rescued One]

Hebrews 9
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

 

[He is the way]

Love of false gods, false prophets false teachings, and false ordinances leads to hell.

Galatians 1
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

(New Testament | 1 John 5:13 - 21)

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

 

[He is the way]

Hebrews 9
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

View attachment 268483

(New Testament | Matthew 24:4 - 14)

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.