LDS Mormon gods

[Rescued One]

If the mormon goal is to become equal to God, don't you have to be crucified at some point to progress as Jesus did, like his father supposedly did according to your religion? How does that work for you?

Their gods don't exist but I wonder what year they invented the idea that the "father" was crucified on another planet.

 

[He is the way]

Jesus obviously never told Joseph Smith or President Nelson anything!

The Book of Mormon proves you wrong. It is obvious that the Book of Mormon is from God.

 

[mmksparbud]

There is only 1 element that God made in his image and in his likeness and was his crowning glory and his highest accomplishment, and that was "man". It is only "man" that the bible records God breathing into him the "breath of life".

Not mice, not caterpillars, not any plants or animals, but just "man". It is not to say that plants and animals do not have spirits, but they are not gods in embryo. Only man has the intellectual capacities and the image and likeness of God. Only "man".

If we said that mice and caterpillars and all animals and plants are gods in embryo, then I believe that would be a form of taking God's name in vain.

Wrong. We are, in deed, the only ones made in His image---but all living things were formed from dust and given His breath of life.

Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
Gen_6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
Gen_7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
Glad you don't think animals are god's in embryo----neither is man.

 

[dzheremi]

The Book of Mormon proves you wrong. It is obvious that the Book of Mormon is from God.

How is it 'obvious'? I thought even your missionaries told the people they visit to pray about it and receive a sign from God. That doesn't seem very obvious. It's not like they'll say "You should believe it because it's so obvious that it's from God." (Which is good, because that's really silly.)

 

[mmksparbud]

The Book of Mormon proves you wrong. It is obvious that the Book of Mormon is from God.

It is very obvious that it is not!

 

[He is the way]

How is it 'obvious'? I thought even your missionaries told the people they visit to pray about it and receive a sign from God. That doesn't seem very obvious. It's not like they'll say "You should believe it because it's so obvious that it's from God." (Which is good, because that's really silly.)

The Book of Mormon was an absolute miracle and and still is. Joseph Smith dictated it just 65 days while he was 23 years old. He did not use any written material what so ever while doing this miraculous work.

 

[Goodhuman]

You said: "How so you want to be gods, while you are not crucified and died on cross?"

Didn't you read what I said:

Although we are told to be equal to God, I don't consider myself to be even close to that goal:

You must not thinking like this. You must be humble christian and always think humble in your heart. So, when God sees that you are humble to save you, and to allow you in heaven, so after death you will not face only torment.

 

[BigDaddy4]

I am not the one to decide what suffering is adequate in order to become joint heirs with Christ. God will decide who is worthy.

Which god gets to decide that? Jesus' father, or the father before him, or the father before him, etc.? Presumably, from what I gather your religions' teachings to be on John 5:19, each "father" progressed by doing was their father did, just as Jesus supposedly progressed because he did what his father did. Now, you want us to believe that there may be "wiggle" room for you lds "gods in training", that you may not have to sacrifice yourselves as Jesus did?

The Christian God, which your religion does not follow, will decide who is teaching and following false doctrine. I'd hate to be on that side...

 

[BigDaddy4]

Their gods don't exist but I wonder what year they invented the idea that the "father" was crucified on another planet.

From what I gather, this "idea" is from John 5:19 where "Jesus gave them this answer: "Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does."

If that verse were to be true, according to their theology, then the Father must have been crucified. If that were true, again according to their theology, then the Father must have had a father who did the same, and so on with their regression of gods.

 

[Rescued One]

But they added each idea at a certain time in their history. The Book of Mormon and D&C and PoG say no such thing.

 

[mmksparbud]

The Book of Mormon was an absolute miracle and and still is. Joseph Smith dictated it just 65 days while he was 23 years old. He did not use any written material what so ever while doing this miraculous work.

That is what you have been told. There is no proof of that. Only passed on by followers of JS, no corroborating evidence from nonbelievers.

 

[Rescued One]

Which god gets to decide that? Jesus' father, or the father before him, or the father before him, etc.? Presumably, from what I gather your religions' teachings to be on John 5:19, each "father" progressed by doing was their father did, just as Jesus supposedly progressed because he did what his father did. Now, you want us to believe that there may be "wiggle" room for you lds "gods in training", that you may not have to sacrifice yourselves as Jesus did?

The Christian God, which your religion does not follow, will decide who is teaching and following false doctrine. I'd hate to be on that side...

 

[Peter1000]

Jesus obviously never told Joseph Smith or President Nelson anything!

How is that "obvious" to you, have you been a fly on the shoulder of President Nelson for the last year and a half, and so you absolutely know that he did not receive this information from Jesus?

 

[dzheremi]

Joseph Smith dictated it just 65 days while he was 23 years old.

Maybe he should've spent longer time or waited until he was a bit older, because it certainly doesn't read like a miraculous 'translation' (what with all the grammatical mistakes relative to the English of both Joseph's own time and the time he was attempting to imitate).

He did not use any written material what so ever while doing this miraculous work.

Then why were the golden plates needed at all in the first place? If he could just put a rock in a hat and then dictate what he was shown in the 'light' when he put his face in the hat (which is how it happened, as your religion is now forced to admit thanks to everyone having seen that South Park episode), how do you even know that the plates had anything to do with the resulting book?

 

[Peter1000]

How is it 'obvious'? I thought even your missionaries told the people they visit to pray about it and receive a sign from God. That doesn't seem very obvious. It's not like they'll say "You should believe it because it's so obvious that it's from God." (Which is good, because that's really silly.)

I have had people tell me that the minute they received the BOM, they knew it was from God, the Holy Spirit revealed it to them before they even read a page. They got baptized, married in the temple and are happy members today.

I have had other people that received it, and returned it back to me and said it was of the devil, without reading a page.

I have known people who thought it was of the devil, but after reading a few pages, the Holy Spirit whispered to them that it was true, and they knew it was of God. Joined the church, got married in the temple and are happy members today.

I have known people that received the BOM and read it and were ready to get baptized because they had prayed about it and had received a confirmation from the Holy Spirit, only to go tell their pastor and then turn away and not be baptized.

I have known people that received the BOM and got baptized and even went to the temple, but heard something negative from a friend, and left the church.

So there is a wide range of actual results when people read the BOM. The Holy Spirit reveals the truth, some hear it, some don't. It is very much like the parable of the sower in the bible.

 

[Peter1000]

Maybe he should've spent longer time or waited until he was a bit older, because it certainly doesn't read like a miraculous 'translation' (what with all the grammatical mistakes relative to the English of both Joseph's own time and the time he was attempting to imitate).



Then why were the golden plates needed at all in the first place? If he could just put a rock in a hat and then dictate what he was shown in the 'light' when he put his face in the hat (which is how it happened, as your religion is now forced to admit thanks to everyone having seen that South Park episode), how do you even know that the plates had anything to do with the resulting book?

Interesting you would believe a South Park episode before you would believe what JS and Oliver Cowdrey and the other scribes of the BOM tell us. Interesting.

 

[Peter1000]

That is what you have been told. There is no proof of that. Only passed on by followers of JS, no corroborating evidence from nonbelievers.

So non-believers had to be involved and witness the whole thing and then you would believe?

There us very little proof of anything that happened in the bible, except what the bible tells us, so good luck with that?

 

[dzheremi]

Interesting you would believe a South Park episode before you would believe what JS and Oliver Cowdrey and the other scribes of the BOM tell us. Interesting.

The South Park guys certainly didn't get everything right, but they did consult Mormon sources to make sure that they got it right enough in broad strokes. The show's not meant to be an exhaustive elucidation of Mormon history, obviously.

For anyone who wants to know what SP got right and what they got wrong about Mormon history, this live stream from 2006 featuring a discussion between Jonathan Streeter (ex-Mormon YouTuber) and historian Dr. Christopher Smith (who is not Mormon, but specializes in Mormon history) is very enlightening:

Here are Matt Stone and Trey Parker from South Park explaining their fascination with Mormonism. They say that they were very surprised when they actually read the Mormon history that it says what it says. They clearly didn't anticipate that Mormonism would have the origins that it does, nor did they seem to intend to offend Mormons or insult Mormonism with it. (If you've seen the episode, you know that the Mormon family was portrayed as good people, and the Mormon child who interacts most with the South Park kids is seen as "cool" in the end for his uncompromising niceness, which is certainly a feature of Mormon culture.)

Looking for offense where none is intended is really a waste of your time, Peter.

 

[Rescued One]

I have had people tell me that the minute they received the BOM, they knew it was from God, the Holy Spirit revealed it to them before they even read a page. They got baptized, married in the temple and are happy members today.

I have had other people that received it, and returned it back to me and said it was of the devil, without reading a page.

I have known people who thought it was of the devil, but after reading a few pages, the Holy Spirit whispered to them that it was true, and they knew it was of God. Joined the church, got married in the temple and are happy members today.

I have known people that received the BOM and read it and were ready to get baptized because they had prayed about it and had received a confirmation from the Holy Spirit, only to go tell their pastor and then turn away and not be baptized.

I have known people that received the BOM and got baptized and even went to the temple, but heard something negative from a friend, and left the church.

So there is a wide range of actual results when people read the BOM. The Holy Spirit reveals the truth, some hear it, some don't. It is very much like the parable of the sower in the bible.

Someone's claim that this or that happened doesn't make it so.

John 10:1-42

 

[Rescued One]

How is that "obvious" to you, have you been a fly on the shoulder of President Nelson for the last year and a half, and so you absolutely know that he did not receive this information from Jesus?

Be a Berean.