LDS Mormon Families Can't Be Together Forever

Rescued One

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Be nice Peter. It's hard to learn about other faiths and what is considered authoritative. For example, I can't count the number of times I've had a Creedal Christian explain their belief in modalism to me- heck I've even heard it over a Creedal Christian pulpit. Now, obviously modalism!=the trinity, and those Creedal Christians themselves were trying their best to explain as best they understood it-- after all, they're still learning themselves. We are all learning. It does matter how we love each other, have patience, and forgive each other when we fall short.


Modalism is a heresy rejected by Trinitatians.
 
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Rescued One

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mom-plus-dad-equals-you_FHE manual 1972.png

Illustration from p. 125 of the 1972 Family Home Evening Manual.

All boys and girls have a mother and father on earth. Your mother and father, of course, are mother and I. Jesus is the only person ever born on this earth that is different. Jesus had a mother on earth. What was her name? (Mary.) But who was his real father? (Heavenly Father.) So you see, Jesus is the only person who had our Heavenly Father as the father of his body. [Family Home Evening Manual, LDS Church, 1972, pp. 125-126.]

I own the 1972 Family Home Evening manual.

The fact of Jesus’ being the literal Son of God in the flesh is crucial to the atonement, . . . For Latter-day Saints, the paternity of Jesus is not obscure. He was the literal, biological son of an immortal, tangible Father and Mary, a mortal woman (see virgin birth). Jesus is the only person born who deserves the title “the Only Begotten Son of God” . . . He was not the son of the Holy Ghost; it was only through the Holy Ghost that the power of the Highest overshadowed Mary (Luke 1:35; 1 Ne. 11:19). [Encyclopedia of Mormonism, vol. 2, p. 729]
 
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Peter1000

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That is true, she was a virgin when she gave birth. However, I am not of the Catholic opinion that she remained one. Just giving birth alone would have eliminated that anyway. The conception was of the Holy Spirit according to scripture.
The conception was not of the HS. You quote this wrong everytime we have this discussion.
Here is the true verse:
Luke 1:35King James Version (KJV)
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

As you can see the HS did come upon her, but the power of the Highest (God the Father) overshadowed her.

So there was present at this event:
1) Mary
2) the HS
3) the power of the Highest (God the Father)

If the HS had been responsible for the conception, then the holy thing which shall be born would have been called the Son of the HS. Jesus is not called that, he is called the Son of God or the Son of the Highest.

The burning questions is: What was the power of the Highest (God the Father) doing with or to Mary, that Gabriel had to use the words 'overshadowed her' ????????????? Please expain that to me. (hint: He was not have sexual intercourse with her).
 
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Peter1000

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View attachment 217279
Illustration from p. 125 of the 1972 Family Home Evening Manual.

All boys and girls have a mother and father on earth. Your mother and father, of course, are mother and I. Jesus is the only person ever born on this earth that is different. Jesus had a mother on earth. What was her name? (Mary.) But who was his real father? (Heavenly Father.) So you see, Jesus is the only person who had our Heavenly Father as the father of his body. [Family Home Evening Manual, LDS Church, 1972, pp. 125-126.]

I own the 1972 Family Home Evening manual.

The fact of Jesus’ being the literal Son of God in the flesh is crucial to the atonement, . . . For Latter-day Saints, the paternity of Jesus is not obscure. He was the literal, biological son of an immortal, tangible Father and Mary, a mortal woman (see virgin birth). Jesus is the only person born who deserves the title “the Only Begotten Son of God” . . . He was not the son of the Holy Ghost; it was only through the Holy Ghost that the power of the Highest overshadowed Mary (Luke 1:35; 1 Ne. 11:19). [Encyclopedia of Mormonism, vol. 2, p. 729]
An excellent explanation. Thank you Phoebe Ann.
 
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Jane_Doe

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View attachment 217279
Illustration from p. 125 of the 1972 Family Home Evening Manual.

All boys and girls have a mother and father on earth. Your mother and father, of course, are mother and I. Jesus is the only person ever born on this earth that is different. Jesus had a mother on earth. What was her name? (Mary.) But who was his real father? (Heavenly Father.) So you see, Jesus is the only person who had our Heavenly Father as the father of his body. [Family Home Evening Manual, LDS Church, 1972, pp. 125-126.]

I own the 1972 Family Home Evening manual.

The fact of Jesus’ being the literal Son of God in the flesh is crucial to the atonement, . . . For Latter-day Saints, the paternity of Jesus is not obscure. He was the literal, biological son of an immortal, tangible Father and Mary, a mortal woman (see virgin birth). Jesus is the only person born who deserves the title “the Only Begotten Son of God” . . . He was not the son of the Holy Ghost; it was only through the Holy Ghost that the power of the Highest overshadowed Mary (Luke 1:35; 1 Ne. 11:19). [Encyclopedia of Mormonism, vol. 2, p. 729]
No this children's book doesn't actually talk about sex, and neither does the encyclopedia entry.
Modalism is a heresy rejected by Trinitatians.
Obviously. That wasn't the point of the post.
Are you calling me a liar?
I said no such thing. I am pointing out that the information you posted was not actual LDS beliefs.
You gripe about most of, if not all, my posts.?
I point out which posts are doctrinal statements and accurately reflect actual LDS beliefs. I'm sorry if that upsets you. In the case of this JFS quote, it's not even on the topic of Christ's birth, so it is incorrect to cite it here.
 
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mmksparbud

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The conception was not of the HS. You quote this wrong everytime we have this discussion.
Here is the true verse:
Luke 1:35King James Version (KJV)
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

As you can see the HS did come upon her, but the power of the Highest (God the Father) overshadowed her.

So there was present at this event:
1) Mary
2) the HS
3) the power of the Highest (God the Father)

If the HS had been responsible for the conception, then the holy thing which shall be born would have been called the Son of the HS. Jesus is not called that, he is called the Son of God or the Son of the Highest.

The burning questions is: What was the power of the Highest (God the Father) doing with or to Mary, that Gabriel had to use the words 'overshadowed her' ????????????? Please expain that to me. (hint: He was not have sexual intercourse with her).

Mat_1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Mat_1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Why do you not understand that what the bible says takes precedence over what JS or any if your so called prophets believe?? It is the same Jesus Christ that was with God from the beginning that was born of Mary---not a different one, born of a different egg and sperm, the very same one and nobody on this planet can explain the process of that---for through the power of the HOLY SPIRIT, Jesus Himself became that embryo in her womb.
 
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Rescued One

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I said no such thing. I am pointing out that the information you posted was not actual LDS beliefs.

I told everyone what I was told and you said that my claim was false. I did not lie. My claim was true.

I point out which posts are doctrinal statements and accurately reflect actual LDS beliefs. I'm sorry if that upsets you. In the case of this JFS quote, it's not even on the topic of Christ's birth, so it is incorrect to cite it here.

No, you gripe if I post a newspaper statement, or a non-scriptural statement, that the church included in its church published manual. If those are false teachings, in your view, then you don't believe what your leaders teach.
 
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mmksparbud

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No, you gripe if I post a newspaper statement, or a non-scriptural statement, that the church included in its church published manual. If those are false teachings, in your view, then you don't believe what your leaders teach.

No, they can't believe what their leaders and teachers say---
"It was never an official declared church belief, in spite of statements by the founder of the LDS Church and other leaders."
That's what they say to everything one of their prophets has to say ---one of their God appointed God's mouthpieces----so who do they believe, if one of God's prophets can't be trusted to tell the truth??
It certainly isn't the bible.
 
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Jane_Doe

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I told everyone what I was told and you said that my claim was false. I did not lie. My claim was true.
They did not tell you that. You might have (mis)heard that, but that's not what they told you. Again, I'm not calling you a liar, I'm clarifying what is LDS doctrine.
No, you gripe if I post a newspaper statement, or a non-scriptural statement, that the church included in its church published manual.
Yes, I do point out when anyone posts non-doctrinal statements. LDS doctrine doesn't come from things like newspapers and it is improper to cite such things when discussing doctrinal matters.
 
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Jane_Doe

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No, they can't believe what their leaders and teachers say---
"It was never an official declared church belief, in spite of statements by the founder of the LDS Church and other leaders."
That's what they say to everything one of their prophets has to say ---one of their God appointed God's mouthpieces----so who do they believe, if one of God's prophets can't be trusted to tell the truth??
It certainly isn't the bible.
*sigh*. The fact that there's only one perfect man is in the Bible (his name is Christ). I'm sorry if it upsets you that LDS believe that.
 
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Rescued One

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No this children's book doesn't actually talk about sex, and neither does the encyclopedia entry.

The Family Home Evening Manual isn't a children's book.

More:

God the Eternal Father, whom we designate by the exalted name-title “Elohim,” is the literal Parent of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and of the spirits of the human race. Elohim is the Father in every sense in which Jesus Christ is so designated, and distinctively He is the Father of spirits.7 ...

Jesus Christ is the Son of Elohim both as spiritual and bodily offspring; that is to say, Elohim is literally the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also of the body in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh, and which body died on the cross and was afterward taken up by the process of resurrection, and is now the immortalized tabernacle of the eternal spirit of our Lord and Savior.
Chapter 40: The Father and the Son


He [Jehovah] was the Son of our Heavenly Father, as we are the sons of our earthly fathers. God is the Father of our spirits, which are clothed upon by fleshly bodies, begotten for us by our earthly fathers. Jesus is our elder brother spirit clothed upon with an earthly body begotten by the Father of our spirits.
Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 2, September 28, 1862.
 
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mmksparbud

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*sigh*. The fact that there's only one perfect man is in the Bible (his name is Christ). I'm sorry if it upsets you that LDS believe that.


It doesn't upset me in the least---and I do believe there is one perfect man and that is Jesus. I don't expect anyone to be perfect. However, when someone claims to be the mouthpiece of God, and you can't seem to believe them, why call yourself a Mormon when you can't believe what your church founders and prophets teach?? We're not discussing their private lives here, but what they TEACH--which is supposed to come from God--and He Doesn't lie, or give wrong information to His prophets to teach His people.
 
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Rescued One

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They did not tell you that. You might have (mis)heard that, but that's not what they told you. Again, I'm not calling you a liar, I'm clarifying what is LDS doctrine.

Not only were you not present, you don't even know where the location was. You do NOT know what anyone told me.

Yes, I do point out when anyone posts non-doctrinal statements. LDS doctrine doesn't come from things like newspapers and it is improper to cite such things when discussing doctrinal matters.

I was quoting a manual published by the CoJCoLDS. I don't have access to old newspapers.
 
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Jane_Doe

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It doesn't upset me in the least---and I do believe there is one perfect man and that is Jesus. I don't expect anyone to be perfect. However, when someone claims to be the mouthpiece of God, and you can't seem to believe them, why call yourself a Mormon when you can't believe what your church founders and prophets teach?? We're not discussing their private lives here, but what they TEACH--which is supposed to come from God--and He Doesn't lie, or give wrong information to His prophets to teach His people.
Someone being a servant of God doesn't mean every single word that always come out of their mouth is perfect. Only Christ fits that bill.
 
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mmksparbud

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Someone being a servant of God doesn't mean every single word that always come out of their mouth is perfect. Only Christ fits that bill.

Every single thing that is supposedly coming from the mouth of God to be taught to His sheep would be stated correctly. If you can't trust your prophet, and you can't trust the bible, then the Holy Spirit isn't talking to you---so if the founders and prophets are not speaking for God, with His Holy Spirit and His authority, with His "keys"---who are you listening to?
 
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Rescued One

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If you want to discuss LDS doctrine, please post doctrinal statements not other things.

I came here to discuss Mormonism. Whether or not you consider it doctrine, why am I supposed to care? You aren't officially in charge of declaring something false or true for the church. Nor can you say what my experience was or was not.
 
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Jane_Doe

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I came here to discuss Mormonism. Whether or not you consider it doctrine, why am I supposed to care? You aren't officially in charge of declaring something false or true for the church.
It's not me declaring anything. You can read about it yourself here: Approaching Mormon Doctrine
Nor can you say what my experience was or was not.
Actually I do care. About your past and your present. Same with every poster here. But again, this isn't about any poster. I'm just clarifying what LDS doctrine actually is.
 
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Jane_Doe

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Every single thing that is supposedly coming from the mouth of God to be taught to His sheep would be stated correctly.
Everything from the mouth of God != every single statement from the mouth a single person.
If you can't trust your prophet, and you can't trust the bible, then the Holy Spirit isn't talking to you---so if the founders and prophets are not speaking for God, with His Holy Spirit and His authority, with His "keys"---who are you listening to?
This is a complete straw man argument.
 
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