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Peter1000

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So can I. Nevertheless, in that context, Jesus made all things that were made.

Colossians 1
15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
In what context?

Tell me what context this saying is in:
Matthew 3:5King James Version (KJV)
5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan.

Did every last person come to John the Baptist to be baptized in Jerusalem, and Judaea, and all the region around about Jordan???? No.

So was this a joke? What context was this saying? And if 'all' doesn't mean 'all', all the time, then how does context tell you sometimes its true and sometimes its just a joke?

I believe that Jesus did create 'all' things that were made 'of a physical nature'.

I believe it because of the scripture you presented to us, Colossians 1:15. Jesus was the firstborn of every creature of God. Well he certainly was not the firstborn mortal physical man, that was Adam, so what was he the firstborn of? He was the firstborn of all of God's spirit children. It is God the Father that brought about the spirits and the intelligence's of men. God's firstborn son was then given the power and the authority to create everything of mortal/physical form. So it was Jesus that made Adam, it was Jesus that made the stars and light and the earth and everything on and under and above the earth.

This is confirmed by the scriptures. The first chapter of Genesis says that Elohim/God the Father created first, those things that are of a spiritual nature. Then in the second chapter of Genesis Yahweh Elohim/Jesus created everything of a mortal/physical nature. I will tell you that it is because mainstream Christianity does not understand this creative formula that they have to try to make Elohim/God the Father and Yahweh Elohim/Jesus the same person. They are not the same person, they are separate and distinct entities, which also answers the age old question of the nature of the Trinity. You see it all fits together like a glove.

So thank you. Your 'all' statement has lead to the answer to creation and the answer to the make up of the Trinity. Wow, what a sensational fit.
 
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Peter1000

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Said this before--that is exactly why this was also said:
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.


All, in this case. means ALL.
How do you know that for sure? I can show you biblical scriptures that say 'all', but even using common sense you know it is not really 'all'. So how do you know this is really 'all'??
 
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mmksparbud

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In what context?

Tell me what context this saying is in:
Matthew 3:5King James Version (KJV)
5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan.

Did every last person come to John the Baptist to be baptized in Jerusalem, and Judaea, and all the region around about Jordan???? No.

So was this a joke? What context was this saying? And if 'all' doesn't mean 'all', all the time, then how does context tell you sometimes its true and sometimes its just a joke?

I believe that Jesus did create 'all' things that were made 'of a physical nature'.

I believe it because of the scripture you presented to us, Colossians 1:15. Jesus was the firstborn of every creature of God. Well he certainly was not the firstborn mortal physical man, that was Adam, so what was he the firstborn of? He was the firstborn of all of God's spirit children. It is God the Father that brought about the spirits and the intelligence's of men. God's firstborn son was then given the power and the authority to create everything of mortal/physical form. So it was Jesus that made Adam, it was Jesus that made the stars and light and the earth and everything on and under and above the earth.

This is confirmed by the scriptures. The first chapter of Genesis says that Elohim/God the Father created first, those things that are of a spiritual nature. Then in the second chapter of Genesis Yahweh Elohim/Jesus created everything of a mortal/physical nature. I will tell you that it is because mainstream Christianity does not understand this creative formula that they have to try to make Elohim/God the Father and Yahweh Elohim/Jesus the same person. They are not the same person, they are separate and distinct entities, which also answers the age old question of the nature of the Trinity. You see it all fits together like a glove.

So thank you. Your 'all' statement has lead to the answer to creation and the answer to the make up of the Trinity. Wow, what a sensational fit.


What part of this is it you don't get??

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

 
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Peter1000

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Other pivotal verses in Colossians are: "It pleased the Father that in Him should all fulness dwell" (1.19) & "In Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" (2.9). :)
Yes, it did please the Father that in Jesus all the fullness of the Godhead dwells. It also pleased the Father to gjve His Son Jesus Christ all power and authority to create 'all' things that were created ('all' things of a mortal/physical nature, see Genesis chapter 1&2).
 
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Peter1000

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"All things" means non-material things, too.
How do you make a non-material thing? Good luck.

BTW, spirit and intelligence is not non-material, but even so, they are not made either. So if Jesus made all things, it would be of a material nature, not a spiritual nature (which has no beginning or end and cannot be made).
 
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mmksparbud

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Yes, it did please the Father that in Jesus all the fullness of the Godhead dwells. It also pleased the Father to gjve His Son Jesus Christ all power and authority to create 'all' things that were created ('all' things of a mortal/physical nature, see Genesis chapter 1&2).


Ple3ase state the verses to support you theory.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
 
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Peter1000

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Ple3ase state the verses to support you theory.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
To support our doctrine, ask yourself where did Jesus receive life in himself?

There are many scriptures that tell us that Jesus received his power from God the Father.
see Matthew 28:18, Acts 10:38, and others. If Jesus had to receive this power from somewhere or from someone, then his power was not inherent.

So it is that God the Father created all things, but He did it by giving power to Jesus to create.
see Ephesians 3:9.

God the Father/Elohim did form all things spiritually in chapter 1 of Genesis. Then gave Jesus, His firstborn of every creature (Colossians 1:15) power and authority to create all things physically in chapter 2 of Genesis.

BTW, the word 'creature' is a bad translation because the mainstream Christian thinks of that word as something created out of nothing or coming into existence for the first time. In reality, the 'creature' in Genesis 1 was formed from 2 'immortal, unmade, no-beginning-no-end' sources. One being 'intelligence', and the other being 'spirit'.

Jesus came from this creation and 2,000 or so years in the future he was formed again into a mortal man with his eternal spirit and intelligence, housed in his mortal flesh body.
At death, his eternal spirit left his mortal body and went to preach unto other spirits in prison, and his flesh body lay in the tomb. At the resurrection, 3 days later, his eternal spirit and his flesh body were reunited into a perfectly immortal incorruptible body of flesh and bone and spirit (including his intelligence), never to be parted again.

We follow the same path as Jesus, he is our elder brother and our exampler. The only difference from us and Jesus is that he learned obedience in the beginning and was sinless from the beginning. We weren't. We, however, can, and if we learn to overcome the world, we can be joint-heirs with Jesus in all that the Father has. Our bodies will be just like his and we can be as holy as him and as godly as him, as Peter says:
2 Peter 1:3King James Version (KJV)
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

Jesus gives me hope in the future. I try each day to become more like him, so I can be with him forever and ever.
 
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Peter1000

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Please point to what verses states that God created only "spiritual things" in Genesis 1.

Genesis 2:5King James Version (KJV)
5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

Notice that this is after Genesis 1 where it describes the creation of everything.

So apparently man was created in Chapter 1, but in this verse in chapter 2 there was not a man to till the ground on the earth yet. Why is that? Is it because chapter 1 is the spirit creation and man was spiritually created before the natural creation in chapter 2? And by whom? By Elohim/God the Father, the creator in chapter 1. And then his firstborn Son Yahweh Elohim/Jesus brought forth the natural creation in chapter 2.

What does it mean: every plant of the field before it was in the earth?
Does this mean that plants existed before they were on the earth? Does this mean that they were spiritually created in chapter 1, but not on the earth naturally yet?

What does it mean: every herb of the field before it grew? Same thing, spiritual creation in chapter 1 (every herb of the field was created spiritually first, before it grew on the earth), and then it was naturally placed on the earth to grow in chapter 2.

So you have the spiritual creation in chapter 1 by Elohim/God the Father, and then you have this Genesis 2:5, which separates chapter 1 from the chapter 2 natural creation by
Yahweh Elohim/Jesus.
 
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mmksparbud

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Genesis 2:5King James Version (KJV)
5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

Notice that this is after Genesis 1 where it describes the creation of everything.

So apparently man was created in Chapter 1, but in this verse in chapter 2 there was not a man to till the ground on the earth yet. Why is that? Is it because chapter 1 is the spirit creation and man was spiritually created before the natural creation in chapter 2? And by whom? By Elohim/God the Father, the creator in chapter 1. And then his firstborn Son Yahweh Elohim/Jesus brought forth the natural creation in chapter 2.

What does it mean: every plant of the field before it was in the earth?
Does this mean that plants existed before they were on the earth? Does this mean that they were spiritually created in chapter 1, but not on the earth naturally yet?

What does it mean: every herb of the field before it grew? Same thing, spiritual creation in chapter 1 (every herb of the field was created spiritually first, before it grew on the earth), and then it was naturally placed on the earth to grow in chapter 2.

So you have the spiritual creation in chapter 1 by Elohim/God the Father, and then you have this Genesis 2:5, which separates chapter 1 from the chapter 2 natural creation by
Yahweh Elohim/Jesus.

That is absolutely not what this says!!! Genesis 1 is the chronological order of creation. Genisus 2 goes back and fills in some of the details. That is all. Man was nit crested until day 6---until then there was no man., period. This is not rocket science! This is not vague, and cryptic. This is the way the they wrote back then and is not the only example ---Exodus does, other books do it. Go back and clarify some details--that is all this is. To come u with this is totally not what this is saying. The word spiritual is never used. Now---without fantasizing--show me a verse in Genesis 1 or 2 that says God created spiritually only in the first 7 days--and the physical after that.


I have a long standing argument with another that has this same idea, they think that each day actually lasted a long time and we are only in day 6 today.
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

He created Adam and Eve, after He had created everything else. Then He tells all of His creation to be fruitful and multiply, spirit can not be fruitful and multiply. Spirit is neither male or female. He gives everything man and beast--the herb of the field and the fruit of every tree---spirit does not eat. That is why Jesus ate with the disciples after His resurrection, after they had handled and touched Him.

Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

That was it. He then pronounced everyth9nbg He had created good---that is the end of creation---There were no chapters nor verses in Hebrew, Genesis 1 and 2 was one narrative---After God created everything and pronounced them good--He ceased creating. That is what the original says--not that He rested.

31 and~he~will~SEE(Verb) {וַיַּרְא / wai'yar} Elohiym {אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him} AT {אֶת / et} ALL {כָּל / kol} WHICH {אֲשֶׁר / a'sher} he~did~DO(Verb) {עָשָׂה / a'sah} and~LOOK {וְהִנֵּה / wê'hin'neyh} FUNCTIONAL {טוֹב / tov} MANY {מְאֹד / mê'od} and~he~will~EXIST(Verb) {וַיְהִי / wai'hi} EVENING {עֶרֶב / e'rev} and~he~will~EXIST(Verb) {וַיְהִי / wai'hi} MORNING {בֹקֶר / vo'qer} DAY {יוֹם / yom} the~SIXTH {הַשִּׁשִּׁי / ha'shi'shi}12]

and Elohiym saw all which he made, and look, it is very functional, and evening existed and morning existed, a sixth day,



Genesis Chapter 2
and~they(m)~will~be~FINISH(Verb) {וַיְכֻלּוּ / wa'ye'khu'lu} the~SKY~s2 {הַשָּׁמַיִם / ha'sha'ma'yim} and~the~LAND {וְהָאָרֶץ / wê'ha'a'rets} and~ALL {וְכָל / wê'khol} ARMY~them(m) {צְבָאָם / tsê'va''am}

and the skies and the land and all of their armies were finished,

and~he~will~much~FINISH(Verb) {וַיְכַל / wai'khal} Elohiym {אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him} in~the~DAY {בַּיּוֹם / ba'yom} the~SEVENTH {הַשְּׁבִיעִי / hash'vi'i} BUSINESS~him {מְלַאכְתּוֹ / mê'lakh'to} WHICH {אֲשֶׁר / a'sher} he~did~DO(Verb) {עָשָׂה / a'sah} and~he~will~CEASE(Verb) {וַיִּשְׁבֹּת / wai'yish'bot} in~the~DAY {בַּיּוֹם / ba'yom} the~SEVENTH {הַשְּׁבִיעִי / hash'vi'i} from~ALL {מִכָּל / mi'kol} BUSINESS~him {מְלַאכְתּוֹ / mê'lakh'to} WHICH {אֲשֶׁר / a'sher} he~did~DO(Verb) {עָשָׂה / a'sah}

and Elohiym finished in the seventh day his business which he did, and he ceased in the seventh day from all his business which he did,

and~he~will~much~KNEEL(Verb) {וַיְבָרֶךְ / wai'va'rekh} Elohiym {אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him} AT {אֶת / et} DAY {יוֹם / yom} the~SEVENTH {הַשְּׁבִיעִי / hash'vi'i} and~he~will~much~SET.APART(Verb) {וַיְקַדֵּשׁ / wai'qa'deysh} AT~him {אֹתוֹ / o'to} GIVEN.THAT {כִּי / ki} in~~him {בוֹ / vo} he~did~CEASE(Verb) {שָׁבַת / sha'vat} from~ALL {מִכָּל / mi'kol} BUSINESS~him {מְלַאכְתּוֹ / mê'lakh'to} WHICH {אֲשֶׁר / a'sher} he~did~FATTEN(Verb) {בָּרָא / ba'ra}13] Elohiym {אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him} to~~>>~DO(Verb) {לַעֲשׂוֹת / la'a'sot}

and Elohiym respected the seventh day and he set him apart given that in him he ceased from all of his business which Elohiym fattened to make,


Genesis 1:31 is not the end of that narrative---it continues into Genesis 2. God ceased from all His business --that was it---He did no further creating and He instituted the Sabbath day as a commemoration of that creation. The narrative merely goes on to put in some details. JS was not aware that there were no chapters and verses in Hebrew and made this into 2 narratives, 2 different creations--FALSE TEACHING.
 
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Peter1000

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That is absolutely not what this says!!! Genesis 1 is the chronological order of creation. Genisus 2 goes back and fills in some of the details. That is all. Man was nit crested until day 6---until then there was no man., period. This is not rocket science! This is not vague, and cryptic. This is the way the they wrote back then and is not the only example ---Exodus does, other books do it. Go back and clarify some details--that is all this is. To come u with this is totally not what this is saying. The word spiritual is never used. Now---without fantasizing--show me a verse in Genesis 1 or 2 that says God created spiritually only in the first 7 days--and the physical after that.


I have a long standing argument with another that has this same idea, they think that each day actually lasted a long time and we are only in day 6 today.
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

He created Adam and Eve, after He had created everything else. Then He tells all of His creation to be fruitful and multiply, spirit can not be fruitful and multiply. Spirit is neither male or female. He gives everything man and beast--the herb of the field and the fruit of every tree---spirit does not eat. That is why Jesus ate with the disciples after His resurrection, after they had handled and touched Him.

Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

That was it. He then pronounced everyth9nbg He had created good---that is the end of creation---There were no chapters nor verses in Hebrew, Genesis 1 and 2 was one narrative---After God created everything and pronounced them good--He ceased creating. That is what the original says--not that He rested.

31 and~he~will~SEE(Verb) {וַיַּרְא / wai'yar} Elohiym {אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him} AT {אֶת / et} ALL {כָּל / kol} WHICH {אֲשֶׁר / a'sher} he~did~DO(Verb) {עָשָׂה / a'sah} and~LOOK {וְהִנֵּה / wê'hin'neyh} FUNCTIONAL {טוֹב / tov} MANY {מְאֹד / mê'od} and~he~will~EXIST(Verb) {וַיְהִי / wai'hi} EVENING {עֶרֶב / e'rev} and~he~will~EXIST(Verb) {וַיְהִי / wai'hi} MORNING {בֹקֶר / vo'qer} DAY {יוֹם / yom} the~SIXTH {הַשִּׁשִּׁי / ha'shi'shi}12]

and Elohiym saw all which he made, and look, it is very functional, and evening existed and morning existed, a sixth day,



Genesis Chapter 2
and~they(m)~will~be~FINISH(Verb) {וַיְכֻלּוּ / wa'ye'khu'lu} the~SKY~s2 {הַשָּׁמַיִם / ha'sha'ma'yim} and~the~LAND {וְהָאָרֶץ / wê'ha'a'rets} and~ALL {וְכָל / wê'khol} ARMY~them(m) {צְבָאָם / tsê'va''am}

and the skies and the land and all of their armies were finished,

and~he~will~much~FINISH(Verb) {וַיְכַל / wai'khal} Elohiym {אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him} in~the~DAY {בַּיּוֹם / ba'yom} the~SEVENTH {הַשְּׁבִיעִי / hash'vi'i} BUSINESS~him {מְלַאכְתּוֹ / mê'lakh'to} WHICH {אֲשֶׁר / a'sher} he~did~DO(Verb) {עָשָׂה / a'sah} and~he~will~CEASE(Verb) {וַיִּשְׁבֹּת / wai'yish'bot} in~the~DAY {בַּיּוֹם / ba'yom} the~SEVENTH {הַשְּׁבִיעִי / hash'vi'i} from~ALL {מִכָּל / mi'kol} BUSINESS~him {מְלַאכְתּוֹ / mê'lakh'to} WHICH {אֲשֶׁר / a'sher} he~did~DO(Verb) {עָשָׂה / a'sah}

and Elohiym finished in the seventh day his business which he did, and he ceased in the seventh day from all his business which he did,

and~he~will~much~KNEEL(Verb) {וַיְבָרֶךְ / wai'va'rekh} Elohiym {אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him} AT {אֶת / et} DAY {יוֹם / yom} the~SEVENTH {הַשְּׁבִיעִי / hash'vi'i} and~he~will~much~SET.APART(Verb) {וַיְקַדֵּשׁ / wai'qa'deysh} AT~him {אֹתוֹ / o'to} GIVEN.THAT {כִּי / ki} in~~him {בוֹ / vo} he~did~CEASE(Verb) {שָׁבַת / sha'vat} from~ALL {מִכָּל / mi'kol} BUSINESS~him {מְלַאכְתּוֹ / mê'lakh'to} WHICH {אֲשֶׁר / a'sher} he~did~FATTEN(Verb) {בָּרָא / ba'ra}13] Elohiym {אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him} to~~>>~DO(Verb) {לַעֲשׂוֹת / la'a'sot}

and Elohiym respected the seventh day and he set him apart given that in him he ceased from all of his business which Elohiym fattened to make,


Genesis 1:31 is not the end of that narrative---it continues into Genesis 2. God ceased from all His business --that was it---He did no further creating and He instituted the Sabbath day as a commemoration of that creation. The narrative merely goes on to put in some details. JS was not aware that there were no chapters and verses in Hebrew and made this into 2 narratives, 2 different creations--FALSE TEACHING.

I have now given you a scripture that strongly implies that the first chapter of Genesis was a spiritual creation and the second chapter of Genesis is the natural creation.

You need to analyze Genesis 2:5, that is the bridging scripture between Genesis 1 and 2.

Tell me what it means when it says: every plant of the field before it was in the earth?

Tell me what it means when it says: every herb of the field before it grew?

Tell me what it means when it says: there was not a man to till the ground on the earth yet.

Remember this vs 5 of Genesis 2 is after God created man vs 26 of Genesis 1 and ended his creative processes in vs 1-3 of Genesis 2.

Then vs 4 of Genesis 2 starts things again, only it is not God/Elohim that is creating, it is Yahweh Elohim/Jesus that is making. And finally vs 5 bridges between the 2 creative processes, spiritual and natural.

You just need to give me more than "thats not what that means". Vs 5 of Genesis is one of the most interesting scriptures in the whole bible, you need to give me your analysis on it.
 
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mmksparbud

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I have now given you a scripture that strongly implies that the first chapter of Genesis was a spiritual creation and the second chapter of Genesis is the natural creation.

You need to analyze Genesis 2:5, that is the bridging scripture between Genesis 1 and 2.

Tell me what it means when it says: every plant of the field before it was in the earth?

Tell me what it means when it says: every herb of the field before it grew?

Tell me what it means when it says: there was not a man to till the ground on the earth yet.

Remember this vs 5 of Genesis 2 is after God created man vs 26 of Genesis 1 and ended his creative processes in vs 1-3 of Genesis 2.

Then vs 4 of Genesis 2 starts things again, only it is not God/Elohim that is creating, it is Yahweh Elohim/Jesus that is making. And finally vs 5 bridges between the 2 creative processes, spiritual and natural.

You just need to give me more than "thats not what that means". Vs 5 of Genesis is one of the most interesting scriptures in the whole bible, you need to give me your analysis on it.


I gave you what the scriptures say and it is not in any way what you claim it is. If you wish to bury your head in the sand---go for it. What more do you need besides the fact that the bible says GOD FINSISHED---finished---ceased, ended, terminated---what do you think that means?? When you are finished with something, you then do not continue to work on it. What is so hard to comprehend about that? There is not one single solitary word relating in any way to spiritual creation--none whatsoever. This is a fabricated theology not based on the scriptures.
Gen 2:5 is nothing more than stating that there was nothing before God created these things. What's so cryptic about that?
4 THESE {אֵלֶּה / ey'leh} BIRTHING~s {תוֹלְדוֹת / tol'dot} the~SKY~s2 {הַשָּׁמַיִם / ha'sha'ma'yim} and~the~LAND {וְהָאָרֶץ / wê'ha'a'rets} in~~>>~be~FATTEN(Verb)~them(m) {בְּהִבָּרְאָם / bê'hi'bar'am} in~DAY {בְּיוֹם / bê'yom} ~>>~DO(Verb) {עֲשׂוֹת / a'sot} YHWH {יְהוָה / YHWH} Elohiym {אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him} LAND {אֶרֶץ / e'rets} and~SKY~s2 {וְשָׁמָיִם / wê'sha'ma'yim}

these are the birthings of the skies and the land in their being fattened in the day YHWH the Elohiym made land and skies,

and~ALL {וְכֹל / wê'khol} SHRUB {שִׂיחַ / si'ahh} the~FIELD {הַשָּׂדֶה / ha'sa'deh} BEFORE {טֶרֶם / te'rem} he~will~EXIST(Verb) {יִהְיֶה / yih'yeh} in~the~LAND {בָאָרֶץ / va'a'rets} and~ALL {וְכָל / wê'khol} HERB {עֵשֶׂב / ey'sev} the~FIELD {הַשָּׂדֶה / ha'sa'deh} BEFORE {טֶרֶם / te'rem} he~will~SPRING.UP(Verb) {יִצְמָח / yits'mahh} GIVEN.THAT {כִּי / ki} NOT {לֹא / lo} he~did~make~PRECIPITATE(Verb) {הִמְטִיר / him'tir} YHWH {יְהוָה / YHWH} Elohiym {אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him} UPON {עַל / al} the~LAND {הָאָרֶץ / ha'a'rets} and~HUMAN {וְאָדָם / wê'a'dam} WITHOUT {אַיִן / a'yin} to~~>>~SERVE(Verb) {לַעֲבֹד / la'a'vod} AT {אֶת / et} the~GROUND {הָאֲדָמָה / ha'a'da'mah}

and all the shrubs of the field before existing in the land, and all the herbs of the field before springing up, given that YHWH the Elohiym did not make it precipitate upon the land and it was without a human to serve the ground,
 
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Peter1000

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I gave you what the scriptures say and it is not in any way what you claim it is. If you wish to bury your head in the sand---go for it. What more do you need besides the fact that the bible says GOD FINSISHED---finished---ceased, ended, terminated---what do you think that means?? When you are finished with something, you then do not continue to work on it. What is so hard to comprehend about that? There is not one single solitary word relating in any way to spiritual creation--none whatsoever. This is a fabricated theology not based on the scriptures.
Gen 2:5 is nothing more than stating that there was nothing before God created these things. What's so cryptic about that?
4 THESE {אֵלֶּה / ey'leh} BIRTHING~s {תוֹלְדוֹת / tol'dot} the~SKY~s2 {הַשָּׁמַיִם / ha'sha'ma'yim} and~the~LAND {וְהָאָרֶץ / wê'ha'a'rets} in~~>>~be~FATTEN(Verb)~them(m) {בְּהִבָּרְאָם / bê'hi'bar'am} in~DAY {בְּיוֹם / bê'yom} ~>>~DO(Verb) {עֲשׂוֹת / a'sot} YHWH {יְהוָה / YHWH} Elohiym {אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him} LAND {אֶרֶץ / e'rets} and~SKY~s2 {וְשָׁמָיִם / wê'sha'ma'yim}

these are the birthings of the skies and the land in their being fattened in the day YHWH the Elohiym made land and skies,

and~ALL {וְכֹל / wê'khol} SHRUB {שִׂיחַ / si'ahh} the~FIELD {הַשָּׂדֶה / ha'sa'deh} BEFORE {טֶרֶם / te'rem} he~will~EXIST(Verb) {יִהְיֶה / yih'yeh} in~the~LAND {בָאָרֶץ / va'a'rets} and~ALL {וְכָל / wê'khol} HERB {עֵשֶׂב / ey'sev} the~FIELD {הַשָּׂדֶה / ha'sa'deh} BEFORE {טֶרֶם / te'rem} he~will~SPRING.UP(Verb) {יִצְמָח / yits'mahh} GIVEN.THAT {כִּי / ki} NOT {לֹא / lo} he~did~make~PRECIPITATE(Verb) {הִמְטִיר / him'tir} YHWH {יְהוָה / YHWH} Elohiym {אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him} UPON {עַל / al} the~LAND {הָאָרֶץ / ha'a'rets} and~HUMAN {וְאָדָם / wê'a'dam} WITHOUT {אַיִן / a'yin} to~~>>~SERVE(Verb) {לַעֲבֹד / la'a'vod} AT {אֶת / et} the~GROUND {הָאֲדָמָה / ha'a'da'mah}

and all the shrubs of the field before existing in the land, and all the herbs of the field before springing up, given that YHWH the Elohiym did not make it precipitate upon the land and it was without a human to serve the ground,
Gen 2:5 is nothing more than stating that there was nothing before God created these things. What's so cryptic about that?

Thats it. Nothing more than stating that there was nothing before God created these things, but the scirpture is after he had created all things and finished his creation? That is tantalizingly interesting, don't you think.

So God creates everything. Says he is finished. And then says there is no man to till the ground on the earth. How interesting, I thought for sure it said that God created man in the first chapter of Genesis vs 26.

Why in vs 5 of chapter 2 is there no man to till the ground yet?

What did God do with Adam and Eve before he put them on the earth?
 
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mmksparbud

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Thats it. Nothing more than stating that there was nothing before God created these things, but the scirpture is after he had created all things and finished his creation? That is tantalizingly interesting, don't you think.

So God creates everything. Says he is finished. And then says there is no man to till the ground on the earth. How interesting, I thought for sure it said that God created man in the first chapter of Genesis vs 26.

Why in vs 5 of chapter 2 is there no man to till the ground yet?

What did God do with Adam and Eve before he put them on the earth?


What is sooooo difficult to comprehend about going back and filling in details??? It is not a second creation. God finished, ceased from creating. That was it.

Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Hebrew
these are the birthings of the skies and the land in their being fattened in the day YHWH the Elohiym made land and skies,

God finished creation--declared the 7th day the Sabbath to commemorate it. The narrative then picks back up about those days--this time not in chronological order. Chapter 1 said what was created on each of those days. Chapter 2 fills in what had not been stated about some of those creations. Now we get details that when the plants and trees were created---there was no rain, no man yet as he had not been created till day 6, so he wasn't taking care of the watering by hand either--there was a mist that watered everything. It fills in the details about the tree of knowledge of good and evil, about where the garden was located (Not in Missouri) it talks about how God created Adam and Eve (Chapter one just gave the day they were created) now it describes that he was formed from the dust of the earth and that God breathed life into him. This narrative is not focusing on what day each thing was created but giving more details about those creations. This section didn't even mention the water animals. It just says:
Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
Gen 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

What did God do---forget to bring about the physical creation of fish and they're still just spiritual??
 
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Peter1000

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What is sooooo difficult to comprehend about going back and filling in details??? It is not a second creation. God finished, ceased from creating. That was it.

Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Hebrew
these are the birthings of the skies and the land in their being fattened in the day YHWH the Elohiym made land and skies,

God finished creation--declared the 7th day the Sabbath to commemorate it. The narrative then picks back up about those days--this time not in chronological order. Chapter 1 said what was created on each of those days. Chapter 2 fills in what had not been stated about some of those creations. Now we get details that when the plants and trees were created---there was no rain, no man yet as he had not been created till day 6, so he wasn't taking care of the watering by hand either--there was a mist that watered everything. It fills in the details about the tree of knowledge of good and evil, about where the garden was located (Not in Missouri) it talks about how God created Adam and Eve (Chapter one just gave the day they were created) now it describes that he was formed from the dust of the earth and that God breathed life into him. This narrative is not focusing on what day each thing was created but giving more details about those creations. This section didn't even mention the water animals. It just says:
Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
Gen 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

What did God do---forget to bring about the physical creation of fish and they're still just spiritual??
No, the fish did not remain just spiritual, the Lord God just does not mention them in the natural creation. No problem.
 
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mmksparbud

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No, the fish did not remain just spiritual, the Lord God just does not mention them in the natural creation. No problem.


Neither is the fact that Genesis 1 and 2 are the same creation week.
 
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mmksparbud

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So do you believe that God did not create anything that is spirit?

I know that the only thing that is called spirit, in the bible, is God. There are also unclean spirits. And that people are possessed by spirits. Those are the minds of fallen angels.
There are different meanings to that word.
Rom_1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
Rom_2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

That we must be spiritual to enter heaven is a different connotation then being an unclean spirit. God made all things. He created brains and through that the intellect. Elephants have one, so do ants. Without some sort of means for thoughts, there is no life. Destroy the brain, you do not exist. Rocks don't think. Even plants have some sort of communication through chemicals. Anything living has to have some sort of way to communicate. In Genesis one, all living things are ordered to be fruitful and multiply. They were totally and completely functional. Everything was pronounced good by God, they lacked nothing in order to exist. We are created lower than the angels, yet, the angels themselves, fallen or not, are created beings and have thought. But God can and will destroy them at the end. They will be devoured by fire from God. Fire from God is different from ours, it can destroy the indestructible, or not harm a bush. Their thoughts will perish, just as the thoughts of the dead.

Psa_146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

There is no such thing as a spirit creation followed by the physical. When God created, everything was, as the original Hebrew says---functional. There are no 2 creations---only in the mind of JS---and he is not thinking at the moment.
 
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Peter1000

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I know that the only thing that is called spirit, in the bible, is God. There are also unclean spirits. And that people are possessed by spirits. Those are the minds of fallen angels.
There are different meanings to that word.
Rom_1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
Rom_2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

That we must be spiritual to enter heaven is a different connotation then being an unclean spirit. God made all things. He created brains and through that the intellect. Elephants have one, so do ants. Without some sort of means for thoughts, there is no life. Destroy the brain, you do not exist. Rocks don't think. Even plants have some sort of communication through chemicals. Anything living has to have some sort of way to communicate. In Genesis one, all living things are ordered to be fruitful and multiply. They were totally and completely functional. Everything was pronounced good by God, they lacked nothing in order to exist. We are created lower than the angels, yet, the angels themselves, fallen or not, are created beings and have thought. But God can and will destroy them at the end. They will be devoured by fire from God. Fire from God is different from ours, it can destroy the indestructible, or not harm a bush. Their thoughts will perish, just as the thoughts of the dead.

Psa_146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

There is no such thing as a spirit creation followed by the physical. When God created, everything was, as the original Hebrew says---functional. There are no 2 creations---only in the mind of JS---and he is not thinking at the moment.
Well you start out by saying that the only thing that is called spirit in the bible is God. But then you realized that Jesus encountered unclean spirits, so you added that. Then you added angels because you know they are spirits. I could add to your list but I think your knowledge of the spirit world is limited to some doctrine you have grown up with so keep it and continue to have a dark spot about a very large contingent of living beings that exist.

You then say that God created brains and through that intellect. And if your brain is destroyed, you would not exist. And after saying this, you have the gaul to poke fun at JS, that he was not thinking at that moment, when he answered the time old question about what gives life.

Yes God gives life, but he does that through the spirits he created. (Each one is a part of Him) Everything that exists, exists because they have the breath of life in them (other words for spirit). From man to animals to plants, all have a spirit that is the animator of the body. The brain does not animate the body.
This is the truth: take the spirit out of the body and it will die, even though it has an intact, perfectly functioning brain.

JS was spot on correct. And why would be not be, he learned it from the Creator Himself.
 
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