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[fatboys]

Scripture in its original languages was inspired and written down for us. It does not take "inspiration" to translate from one language to another. One does not need to be a prophet or use a seer stone to do so!

Anyone who is knowledgeable in Greek can translate this from John 3:16:

Οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν κόσμον ὥστε τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ ἔδωκεν ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται ἀλλ᾽ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον

Whether or not they believe it, or believe that it came from God is a different matter.

It does if you wNt pure intent and meaning. If the intent is so crystal clear why do you have thousands of different church's all professing to have the correct pure intent?

 

[mmksparbud]

It does if you wNt pure intent and meaning. If the intent is so crystal clear why do you have thousands of different church's all professing to have the correct pure intent?

Same reason the disciples fought amongst themselves---same reason there was discord in the Israelite campsite, even though God Himself had just shown them miracles while in Egypt and even though they could see His power and glory in the cloud by day, and pillar of fire by night and heard His voice coming from the mountain when Moses went up it---and then turned around and made a molten calf and worshipped, and sang and danced in front of it. Get more than 2 people together and there will be differences, we are sinners saved by grace--all in the journey of becoming a reflection of Him and come at things from our own perspectives. Interpreting a word in the full understanding of the time and culture it was written in is different from coming up with a whole different concept. And as has been pointed out, and by your own people----even you guys do not all think the same about every thing. You said not all believe in a heavenly mother and other things, you have your own opinions within you own faith. You're not as united as you like to believe.

 

[Peter1000]

What is consistent with the whole of the bible is that Jesus is the head of all creation for it
is Him that created it all. Anything else is false. There is no such thing as exaltation as you people see it. Eternal life is the reward given to the saved---all the saved. The bible speaks of no such thing as different stages of salvation, you either are saved or not. As we let Jesus, through the Holy Spirit, direct our hearts we become His reflection. JS is as wrong as you can get.

So, it is possible that Jesus could be the 'beginniing' and also be the 'head' of the creation. LDS believe that God the Father brought forth everything in spirit form first (uncreated spirit with no beginning and no end) and Jesus was the begining of those spirits. But God loved Jesus because he was sinless and loved righteousness and hated iniquity, so the Father gave Jesus the power and authority to manage the material creation of all that is created. And so through Jesus, God created all of the material heavens and the earth. Thus Jesus was both the 'beginning' and he was the 'head' of all that was created.

 

[mmksparbud]

So, is it possible that Jesus could be the 'beginniing' and also be the 'head' of the creation? LDS believe that God the Father brought forth everything in spirit form first (uncreated spirit with no beginning and no end) and Jesus was the begining of those spirits. But God loved Jesus because he was sinless and loved righteousness and hated iniquity, so the Father gave Jesus the power and authority to manage the material creation of all that is created. And so through Jesus, God created all of the material heavens and the earth. Thus Jesus was both the 'beginning' and he was the 'head' of all that was created.

Jesus is the beginning of creation in that He is the one that created everything
oh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

 

[Peter1000]

Jesus is the beginning of creation in that He is the one that created everything
oh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

I believe Jesus was the beginning because he was the beginning. All things were made by him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. You are right.

 

[BigDaddy4]

It does if you wNt pure intent and meaning. If the intent is so crystal clear why do you have thousands of different church's all professing to have the correct pure intent?

Who said intent was crystal clear? I said anyone who is knowledgeable in Greek can translate that passage.

You, and other lds, continue to make baseless assertions about "thousands of different church's" as if it's a big deal to have disagreements. The Apostles had disagreements, several early churches had disagreements (5 of the 7 churches in Revelation chapters 2 & 3 were called out by the Lord for incorrect practices). That's what happens when people are converted from an old way of life (Jew or Gentile) to a new way of life, following Jesus. One doesn't become a mindless robot once they accept Jesus and choose to be a disciple.

 

[Rescued One]

Same reason the disciples fought amongst themselves---same reason there was discord in the Israelite campsite, even though God Himself had just shown them miracles while in Egypt and even though they could see His power and glory in the cloud by day, and pillar of fire by night and heard His voice coming from the mountain when Moses went up it---and then turned around and made a molten calf and worshipped, and sang and danced in front of it. Get more than 2 people together and there will be differences, we are sinners saved by grace--all in the journey of becoming a reflection of Him and come at things from our own perspectives. Interpreting a word in the full understanding of the time and culture it was written in is different from coming up with a whole different concept. And as has been pointed out, and by your own people----even you guys do not all think the same about every thing. You said not all believe in a heavenly mother and other things, you have your own opinions within you own faith. You're not as united as you like to believe.

The Mormons split when Joseph Smith died. The ones who went to Utah decided they were right and the rest were wrong.

The Latter Day Saint movement includes:

• The second-largest denomination is the Community of Christ (first named the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (RLDS Church) from 1872 to 2001), a Missouri-based, 250,000-member denomination. Though members of this church have traditionally been called Latter Day Saints (without the hyphen), the Community of Christ has more recently stated that it rejects the use of the term Saints as a designation for its members in any official reference or publication.[4]

• The original church within this movement, founded in April 1830 in New York by Joseph Smith, was the Church of Christ, which was later named the Church of the Latter Day Saints. It was renamed the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in 1838 (stylized as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the United Kingdom),[2]which remained its official name until Smith's death in 1844. This organization subsequently splintered into several different denominations, each of which claims to be the legitimate continuation of this original church, and most of which dispute the right of other denominations within the movement to claim this distinction.
• The largest denomination within the contemporary movement is the LDS Church (colloquially, the Mormon Church) with approximately 16 million members.[3] It is headquartered in Salt Lake City, Utah, and uses the term Latter-day Saints to describe itself and its members (note the hyphenation and variation in capitalization usage).

• Other denominations within the movement either formed around various would-be successors to Smith, or else broke from denominations that did. These, together with the two denominations listed above, are detailed in the table of denominations within the Latter Day Saint movement, below.
• Though a few small factions broke with Smith's organization during his lifetime, he retained the allegiance of the vast majority of Latter Day Saints until his death in June 1844. Following Smith's death, the movement experienced a leadership crisis which led to a schism within the church. The largest group, which would become the LDS Church, followed Brigham Young, settling in what would become the Utah Territory. The second-largest faction, the RLDS Church, coalesced around Joseph Smith III, eldest son of Joseph Smith. Other would-be leaders included the senior surviving member of the First Presidency, Sidney Rigdon; the newly baptized James Strang from Wisconsin; and Alpheus Cutler, one of the Council of Fifty. Each of these men still retains a following as of 2014—however tiny it may be in some cases—and all of their organizations have experienced further schisms.[5][6][7] Other claimants, such as Granville Hedrick, William Bickerton and Charles B. Thompson, later emerged to start still other factions, some of which have further subdivided....
  List of denominations in the Latter Day Saint movement - Wikipedia
  
  Main branches of the Latter Day Saint movement are shown here:
• List of denominations in the Latter Day Saint movement - Wikipedia

Jeffrey Don Lundgren (May 3, 1950 – October 24, 2006) was an American self-proclaimed prophet and mass murderer, who on April 17, 1989, killed 5 people in Kirtland, Ohio. Lundgren led a Reformed Latter Day Saint (RLDS) movement-based cult in Kirtland where he and several of his followers murdered the Avery family, fellow members of his cult, for which he was convicted and sentenced to death.
Lundgren was executed in 2006.
Jeffrey Lundgren - Wikipedia

 

[mmksparbud]

All of one accord, I see. But, of course, that means only the church that the Mormons on this forum belong too is the true Mormon church--the rest are all off shoots--who still follow JS. Sooooooo----Can JS then be interpreted in many different ways??

 

[Peter1000]

The Mormons split when Joseph Smith died. The ones who went to Utah decided they were right and the rest were wrong.

The Latter Day Saint movement includes:

• The second-largest denomination is the Community of Christ (first named the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (RLDS Church) from 1872 to 2001), a Missouri-based, 250,000-member denomination. Though members of this church have traditionally been called Latter Day Saints (without the hyphen), the Community of Christ has more recently stated that it rejects the use of the term Saints as a designation for its members in any official reference or publication.[4]

• The original church within this movement, founded in April 1830 in New York by Joseph Smith, was the Church of Christ, which was later named the Church of the Latter Day Saints. It was renamed the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in 1838 (stylized as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the United Kingdom),[2]which remained its official name until Smith's death in 1844. This organization subsequently splintered into several different denominations, each of which claims to be the legitimate continuation of this original church, and most of which dispute the right of other denominations within the movement to claim this distinction.
• The largest denomination within the contemporary movement is the LDS Church (colloquially, the Mormon Church) with approximately 16 million members.[3] It is headquartered in Salt Lake City, Utah, and uses the term Latter-day Saints to describe itself and its members (note the hyphenation and variation in capitalization usage).

• Other denominations within the movement either formed around various would-be successors to Smith, or else broke from denominations that did. These, together with the two denominations listed above, are detailed in the table of denominations within the Latter Day Saint movement, below.
• Though a few small factions broke with Smith's organization during his lifetime, he retained the allegiance of the vast majority of Latter Day Saints until his death in June 1844. Following Smith's death, the movement experienced a leadership crisis which led to a schism within the church. The largest group, which would become the LDS Church, followed Brigham Young, settling in what would become the Utah Territory. The second-largest faction, the RLDS Church, coalesced around Joseph Smith III, eldest son of Joseph Smith. Other would-be leaders included the senior surviving member of the First Presidency, Sidney Rigdon; the newly baptized James Strang from Wisconsin; and Alpheus Cutler, one of the Council of Fifty. Each of these men still retains a following as of 2014—however tiny it may be in some cases—and all of their organizations have experienced further schisms.[5][6][7] Other claimants, such as Granville Hedrick, William Bickerton and Charles B. Thompson, later emerged to start still other factions, some of which have further subdivided....
  List of denominations in the Latter Day Saint movement - Wikipedia
  
  Main branches of the Latter Day Saint movement are shown here:
• List of denominations in the Latter Day Saint movement - Wikipedia

Jeffrey Don Lundgren (May 3, 1950 – October 24, 2006) was an American self-proclaimed prophet and mass murderer, who on April 17, 1989, killed 5 people in Kirtland, Ohio. Lundgren led a Reformed Latter Day Saint (RLDS) movement-based cult in Kirtland where he and several of his followers murdered the Avery family, fellow members of his cult, for which he was convicted and sentenced to death.
Lundgren was executed in 2006.
Jeffrey Lundgren - Wikipedia

Do you want me to go through the litany of Christian cult figures, which are legion around the world. Hundreds of Jeffrey don Lundgrens.

Besides the sayings of the Lord have come true. None of the split offs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have amounted to anything that would diminish the original church. Oh, on any given day a headline may go out about a distant branch of the true church that embarrases the whole restored movement, but after a few days, it goes away and so many good things happen that reflect possitively on the true church that the church just continues to move forward in the preparation of the second return of Jesus Christ. Which will not be turned one way or the other until the event takes place and the millenium comes like a thief in the night.

 

[Peter1000]

All of one accord, I see. But, of course, that means only the church that the Mormons on this forum belong too is the true Mormon church--the rest are all off shoots--who still follow JS. Sooooooo----Can JS then be interpreted in many different ways??

You are right, we are members of the SLC Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The original restored church of Jesus Christ.

 

[mmksparbud]

Yes---like I said---you are not as united as you think you are.

 

[Peter1000]

Yes---like I said---you are not as united as you think you are.

We in the original church are unified. There are always going to be questions and small differences, but nothing is going to unravel the original church.

Besides you are a Seventh day Adventist who hates the Mormon church, so your words don't mean a lot about how we are.

 

[mmksparbud]

We in the original church are unified. There are always going to be questions and small differences, but nothing is going to unravel the original church.

Besides you are a Seventh day Adventist who hates the Mormon church, so your words don't mean a lot about how we are.

Every denomination is unified---you are just another denomination. You are not considered Christian, but the biblical definition of Christian is a follower of Christ. However, they followed the scriptures, which back then, was only the OT and the letters of the apostles. Most of your believes do not follow the OT believes.
I in no way hate the Mormon church----I am totally and completely against many of your believes---there is a difference. We are also often accused of hating Catholics--no---we are against a lot of their believes---we oppose unbiblical doctrines, never the people.

 

[Peter1000]

Every denomination is unified---you are just another denomination. You are not considered Christian, but the biblical definition of Christian is a follower of Christ. However, they followed the scriptures, which back then, was only the OT and the letters of the apostles. Most of your believes do not follow the OT believes.
I in no way hate the Mormon church----I am totally and completely against many of your believes---there is a difference. We are also often accused of hating Catholics--no---we are against a lot of their believes---we oppose unbiblical doctrines, never the people.

I appreciate that. Thank you.

 

[Rescued One]

I believe Jesus was the beginning because he was the beginning. All things were made by him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. You are right.

"All things" means non-material things, too.

 

[Peter1000]

"All things" means non-material things, too.

No it doesn't. The word 'all' can be misleading. I can if you wish give you 2 biblical examples of where 'all' doesn't mean 'all'.

 

[Rescued One]

No it doesn't. The word 'all' can be misleading. I can if you wish give you 2 biblical examples of where 'all' doesn't mean 'all'.

So can I. Nevertheless, in that context, Jesus made all things that were made.

Colossians 1
15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

 

[mmksparbud]

No it doesn't. The word 'all' can be misleading. I can if you wish give you 2 biblical examples of where 'all' doesn't mean 'all'.

Said this before--that is exactly why this was also said:
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

All, in this case. means ALL.

 

[faroukfarouk]

So can I. Nevertheless, in that context, Jesus made all things that were made.

Colossians 1
15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Other pivotal verses in Colossians are: "It pleased the Father that in Him should all fulness dwell" (1.19) & "In Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" (2.9).

 

[Rescued One]

Said this before--that is exactly why this was also said:
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made...

That was the verse I was thinking of, but I got distracted!