More False Narratives

[rjs330]

Protests errupted in Detroit over a killing of a 20 year old black man.

Citizens stated the police shot him after he out his hands up. Demostrators automatically believed the narrative and reacted angrily shouting no justice no peace. And Black Lives Matter.

However, the police released video which clearly show the man shooting at police first. Thus ending the false narrative. But even after the release the protestors didn't give up and continued to call for justice.

Another false narrative.
Protests erupt over Detroit police shooting — then police chief destroys narrative with video footage

 

[Hazelelponi]

I've personally just stopped watching the news at this point... there's no point in it anymore.

 

[GodsGrace101]

BLM is not a social movement.
It's a marxist political movement.
Exactly what the founders wanted
and the young kids that are a part of it don't understand that they're not helping black persons any.

Which is a rather insulting idea to black persons anyway. As if they're not capable of taking care of themselves. Typical leftist idea.

They mean well maybe. Maybe. But meaning well is not DOING well.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Cool, one video that confirms the PD’s story after how many dozens? hundreds? that have undermined, if not directly contradicted their stories? American police are the undisputed champions of false narratives.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Cool, one video that confirms the PD’s story after how many dozens? hundreds? that have undermined, if not directly contradicted their stories? American police are the undisputed champions of false narratives.

So shall we try living without them? What would that look like? What is your solution?

 

[iluvatar5150]

So shall we try living without them? What would that look like? What is your solution?

There are loads of issues, each with their own solution, but greater accountability and oversight are a good start.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Cool, one video that confirms the PD’s story after how many dozens? hundreds? that have undermined, if not directly contradicted their stories? American police are the undisputed champions of false narratives.

Don't call one when you need help.

And check out the stats....
more WHITE persons are killed by police every year than black.

Also, please think of all the black persons that have died due to the protesting..including an 8 year old girl and there may be more than I know of.

There are rotten apples in every group.
You get rid of them...NOT THE WHOLE GROUP.

Here are the stats:



2019 white: 370 black: 235
2020 white: 204 black: 105

source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

And police don't just kill persons, if we check, we'll find a reason.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Don't call one when you need help.

What a ridiculous false dichotomy - if I want them to do their job, I have to accept all the malfeasance that comes with it?

By that logic, Spiro Agnew should never have resigned - after all, the country needs a VP, and if he's on the take, then so be it.

And check out the stats.... more WHITE persons are killed by police every year than black.

That's entirely irrelevant to the comment I made, but it's good to know you've got that comment cued up and ready to fire at a moment's notice.

Also, please think of all the black persons that have died due to the protesting..including an 8 year old girl and there may be more than I know of.

Also irrelevant.

There are rotten apples in every group.
You get rid of them...NOT THE WHOLE GROUP.

That's great. Problem is that police culture, police departments, and police unions all too often protect those rotten apples rather than eject them.

Here are the stats:



2019 white: 370 black: 235
2020 white: 204 black: 105

source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

Cool, more irrelevance.

And police don't just kill persons

In many cases, that's exactly what they do.

if we check, we'll find a reason.

Yeah, the reason is often that they're lousy cops with itchy trigger fingers who are bad at their jobs, with little-to-no accountability and a police command structure and/or city government inclined to provide them cover, and a voting populace who looks the other way because they're usually not impacted.

If you want to argue that point, start with the cases of George Floyd, Philando Castille, Walter Scott, Tamir Rice, John Crawford III, Jose Guerena, and -just to illustrate that I wasn't making this a discussion about race- Justine Damond and Daniel Shaver.

 

[GodsGrace101]

What a ridiculous false dichotomy - if I want them to do their job, I have to accept all the malfeasance that comes with it?

By that logic, Spiro Agnew should never have resigned - after all, the country needs a VP, and if he's on the take, then so be it.



That's entirely irrelevant to the comment I made, but it's good to know you've got that comment cued up and ready to fire at a moment's notice.



Also irrelevant.



That's great. Problem is that police culture, police departments, and police unions all too often protect those rotten apples rather than eject them.



Cool, more irrelevance.



In many cases, that's exactly what they do.



Yeah, the reason is often that they're lousy cops with itchy trigger fingers who are bad at their jobs, with little-to-no accountability and a police command structure and/or city government inclined to provide them cover, and a voting populace who looks the other way because they're usually not impacted.

If you want to argue that point, start with the cases of George Floyd, Philando Castille, Walter Scott, Tamir Rice, John Crawford III, Jose Guerena, and -just to illustrate that I wasn't making this a discussion about race- Justine Damond and Daniel Shaver.

This is what you said in post no. 4:

American police are the undisputed champions of false narratives.

This will lead one to believe that you do not trust the Police. Maybe you do --- I have to go by what you say since I don't know you.

if I didn't trust the police,,,I wouldn't call them in an emergency....and take the risk of getting killed???? It's NOT a false dichotomy. It's just that the liberal left is loosing the ability to reason correctly. They refuse to talk calmly about topics and have a completely closed mind to any topic and believe only THEY have the truth.

Are you Christian? I didn't check. Do you know about the sin nature? Then what do you expect?
There is malfeasance everywhere we look.

We don't need a Marxist group burning up AMERICA and tearing down statues of persons that are HEROES to "try to fix" the problem within the police dept. This is NOT their goal and if you believe it is you're sorely mistaken.

What I have "cued up" is the facts. If you don't like the facts, it's your loss....important decisions should be made by knowing the facts....not by what we THINK the facts are.

And you said this:

with little-to-no accountability and a police command structure and/or city government inclined to provide them cover,

Thanks to the leftist marxist that are now running the great country of the U.S. police are retiring early in record numbers. NYC Mayor DiBlasio, who has RUINED the city, has said that he is defunding the police dept and putting the money into social programs.

Typical leftist idea. Do what one FEELS will be right and not what works. Yeah. Those baseball/basketball/or any othe field will really work....just like it did in the 70's and 80's....she said laughingly. Where were you back then?
What makes you think it'll work now when kids are worse than at that time due to their liberal parents that teach them America is wrong in everything it does.

Crime is up 200% in NYC.
You know what worked?
Giuliani worked.
Zero tolerance worked.
Criminals are not civil...they're criminals. All they know is fear of being caught.

9 persons were shot in 4 boroughs and 42 were injured. Where do YOU live? Do you feel safe right now?

The mob won't be asking if you're a Rep or a Dem before they knock your door down.

Protesting is not happening.
Terrorism is happening.

 

[grasping the after wind]

What with all these posts about left/right etc? Is the world so black-and-white to you guys?

Does everything have to devolve into us-versus-them tribalism?

To many it is. One cannot have a conversation about an issue without someone placing one in a box of either them or us. It has gotten to the point that if one of the us-es even strays slightly from complying whole heartedly with what is seen as the us consensus opinion even on just one single issue that they are then treated as a them and are subject to the cancel culture vultures.

 

[Caliban]

Protests errupted in Detroit over a killing of a 20 year old black man.

Citizens stated the police shot him after he out his hands up. Demostrators automatically believed the narrative and reacted angrily shouting no justice no peace. And Black Lives Matter.

However, the police released video which clearly show the man shooting at police first. Thus ending the false narrative. But even after the release the protestors didn't give up and continued to call for justice.

Another false narrative.
Protests erupt over Detroit police shooting — then police chief destroys narrative with video footage

The television is not a source for news. People on the left and right are prone to credulity because Americans no longer read.

 

[Nithavela]

What with all these posts about left/right etc? Is the world so black-and-white to you guys?

Does everything have to devolve into us-versus-them tribalism?

One might as well save themselves the hassle to talk with people once you have been placed in the box that is only talked to and not talked with.

 

[grasping the after wind]

The television is not a source for news. People on the left and right are prone to credulity because Americans no longer read.

Reading does not stop people from being prone to credulity. One can gather snippets of news from television and from print if one pays close attention to which way the spin is going. However, it is easier to unravel the factual reporting from the spin with print as it remains there in front of one in its entirety as long as one needs it to be. Television news casting comes and goes quickly and is therefore is less easily scrutinized.

 

[grasping the after wind]

One might as well save themselves the hassle to talk with people once you have been placed in the box that is only talked to and not talked with.

Those that place one in a box do not recognize any box that includes talking with and certainly have no use for any box that would remotely include listening to.

 

[Caliban]

Reading does not stop people from being prone to credulity. One can gather snippets of news from television and from print if one pays close attention to which way the spin is going. However, it is easier to unravel the factual reporting from the spin with print as it remains there in front of one in its entirety as long as one needs it to be. Television news casting comes and goes quickly and is therefore is less easily scrutinized.

The value of deep reading is that reliable literary sources have a well established review and editorial process. Books, for example different greatly from blogs or even news print because they involve (most often) multiple years of research by the author, a severe fact checking process and peer review, and throughout editing. All of this help to temper reactionary impulses and to provide nuance and balance to highly complicated issues. Any knucklehead can post a "fact" to social media or a YouTube channel, but the level of sophistication a person encounters in books will help to provide the broad context of historical and contemporary analysis.

The fact that Americans now read far less than previous generation is, I think, a major reason why were are unable to reason. There is no substitute for reading complex and well written books from reliable publishers. Anyone complaining about any topic who hasn't read several books on the subject is foolish. In fact, a great number of Americans flat out reject or mistrust experts and highly educated individuals.

 

[pitabread]

To many it is. One cannot have a conversation about an issue without someone placing one in a box of either them or us. It has gotten to the point that if one of the us-es even strays slightly from complying while heartedly with what is seen as the us consensus opinion even on just one single issue that they are then treated as a them and are subject to the cancel culture vultures.

I just find it odd when people try to make everything a partisan issue even when the issues are not.

I suppose it speaks to how utterly fractured America is at the moment.

 

[iluvatar5150]

This is what you said in post no. 4:

American police are the undisputed champions of false narratives.

This will lead one to believe that you do not trust the Police. Maybe you do --- I have to go by what you say since I don't know you.

I don't blindly trust them. I'm more likely to take them at their word in certain contexts than I am in other contexts.

if I didn't trust the police,,,I wouldn't call them in an emergency....and take the risk of getting killed???? It's NOT a false dichotomy.

It is a false dichotomy. You can be distrustful of a public official and still call on them to do their job.

It's just that the liberal left is loosing the ability to reason correctly. They refuse to talk calmly about topics and have a completely closed mind to any topic and believe only THEY have the truth.

Really? The conservative right favors low-brow, conspiratorially-minded news analysis and elected a loud-mouthed tv star who could reasonably be described as the spray tan-covered incarnation of the Human Id, and it's the "liberal left" who's losing the ability to reason correctly?

We don't need a Marxist group burning up AMERICA and tearing down statues of persons that are HEROES to "try to fix" the problem within the police dept. This is NOT their goal and if you believe it is you're sorely mistaken.

Again, not relevant.

What I have "cued up" is the facts. If you don't like the facts, it's your loss....important decisions should be made by knowing the facts....not by what we THINK the facts are.

You cued up an irrelevant comment.

And you said this:

with little-to-no accountability and a police command structure and/or city government inclined to provide them cover,

Thanks to the leftist marxist that are now running the great country of the U.S. police are retiring early in record numbers.

If they can't handle some additional scrutiny, we're better off without them.,

NYC Mayor DiBlasio, who has RUINED the city,

By no metric has he ruined the city. That's a lie - but tell me more about how it's the "liberal left" that's losing its ability to reason calmly.

has said that he is defunding the police dept and putting the money into social programs.

Typical leftist idea. Do what one FEELS will be right and not what works.

What do you know about what works?

Crime is up 200% in NYC.

No, it isn't.
https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/crime_statistics/cs-en-us-city.pdf

False narrative.

You know what worked?
Giuliani worked.
Zero tolerance worked.
Criminals are not civil...they're criminals. All they know is fear of being caught.

It also locked up a ton of minorities for no good reason.

9 persons were shot in 4 boroughs and 42 were injured. Where do YOU live? Do you feel safe right now?

I live in Baltimore City, which has far and away more crime than NYC and yes, I do feel safe right now.

The mob won't be asking if you're a Rep or a Dem before they knock your door down.

I moved here right around the time of the Freddie Grey riots. I'm fine.

There we go. Just checked your avatar.
The left just cannot have a civil discussion.
They must malign those that do not agree with them by calling them rediculous and other names. I did not call you any name,,,what a difference.

Perhaps you might consider abandoning the craziness of the leftist party and joining those of us that can still have a calm discussion without putting anyone down.

I didn't call you a name. I said your argument was ridiculous. You, however, cited bogus stats and described my side of the political aisle as crazy and unable to have a calm, civil, rational discussion. You absolutely did put me down.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

There are loads of issues, each with their own solution, but greater accountability and oversight are a good start.

Most altercations with law enforcement personnel start when the individual refuses to obey a legal command like turn around and put your hands behind your back or get down on the ground face down.

So the first issue that needs to be addressed is for the public to obey legal commands from the law enforcement. That will solve most of the issues.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Most altercations with law enforcement personnel start when the individual refuses to obey a legal command like turn around and put your hands behind your back or get down on the ground face down.

Source?

There have been loads of videos where these so-called commands either weren't issued or were issued in such a way to have made it difficult, if not impossible, for the subject to comply.

 

[renniks]

Protesting is not happening.
Terrorism is happening.

This is so obvious, yet people are still walking around with their heads in the sand, pretending we don't need any police while crimes skyrocket. It's unbelievable. I think common sense dyed about five years ago.