More Evidence for Christ's death for everyone

[FreeGrace2]

Acts 2:38-41

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. 40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. 41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

First, let's note that Peter was preaching to a large number of Jews who he charged with the crucifixion of Christ (v.36). They were obviously not believers in Christ at that moment.

Next, we read that he "solemnly testified and KEPT ON EXHORTING them…to what? To "SAVE YOURSELVES" (v.40).

Then, we note in v.41 who "gladly received his word". Does that SAY that everyone who heard received his word? No, it does not. Luke makes the point that it was those who had gladly received his word who were baptized and added to the church.

It is not possible to argue that everyone who heard his message believed it. Yet Peter's message was for the entire crowd. There is nothing to indicate otherwise.

Finally, note Acts 4:4 -

But many of those who had heard the message believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand.

Here, it is crystal clear about the FACT that not everyone who heard the gospel message believed. It SAYS: "MANY OF THOSE who had heard the message believed".

These verses in Acts demonstrate conclusively that Jesus Christ died for everyone.

 

[EmSw]

Acts 2:38-41

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. 40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. 41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Well, let's see, surely the translation of 'save yourselves' must have been by synergists.

We either need to delete this from Acts or explain it away from our own intelligence.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Well, let's see, surely the translation of 'save yourselves' must have been by synergists.

We either need to delete this from Acts or explain it away from our own intelligence.

Sorry for the long delay, but here is the rest of what I said, which you completely sidestepped:

First, let's note that Peter was preaching to a large number of Jews who he charged with the crucifixion of Christ (v.36). They were obviously not believers in Christ at that moment.

Next, we read that he "solemnly testified and KEPT ON EXHORTING them…to what? To "SAVE YOURSELVES" (v.40).

Then, we note in v.41 who "gladly received his word". Does that SAY that everyone who heard received his word? No, it does not. Luke makes the point that it was those who had gladly received his word who were baptized and added to the church.

It is not possible to argue that everyone who heard his message believed it. Yet Peter's message was for the entire crowd. There is nothing to indicate otherwise.

Finally, note Acts 4:4 -

But many of those who had heard the message believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand.

Here, it is crystal clear about the FACT that not everyone who heard the gospel message believed. It SAYS: "MANY OF THOSE who had heard the message believed".

These verses in Acts demonstrate conclusively that Jesus Christ died for everyone.

Would you please interact with what I said.

btw, regarding your comment about the phrase "save yourselves", surely you know that Jesus said many times, "your faith has saved you", right? What do you do with those verses?

 

[OzSpen]

Well, let's see, surely the translation of 'save yourselves' must have been by synergists.

We either need to delete this from Acts or explain it away from our own intelligence.

In Acts 2:40, what do you consider is the best translation of Σώθητε ἀπὸ τῆς γενεᾶς, based on the grammar of Σώθητε?

These are some of the translations I have access to:

• 'Save yourselves from this untoward generation' (KJV)
• 'Be saved from this perverse generation' (NKJV)
  
• 'Save yourselves from this crooked generation' (ESV)
• 'Be saved from this perverse generation!' (NASB)
• 'Save yourselves from this corrupt generation' (NIV)
• 'Save yourselves from this corrupt generation' (NRSV)
• 'Be saved from this corrupt generation' (HCSB)
  

Oz

 

[EmSw]

Sorry for the long delay, but here is the rest of what I said, which you completely sidestepped:

First, let's note that Peter was preaching to a large number of Jews who he charged with the crucifixion of Christ (v.36). They were obviously not believers in Christ at that moment.

I agree.

Next, we read that he "solemnly testified and KEPT ON EXHORTING them…to what? To "SAVE YOURSELVES" (v.40).

How does one save himself?

Then, we note in v.41 who "gladly received his word". Does that SAY that everyone who heard received his word? No, it does not. Luke makes the point that it was those who had gladly received his word who were baptized and added to the church.

Okay. I agree with this.

It is not possible to argue that everyone who heard his message believed it. Yet Peter's message was for the entire crowd. There is nothing to indicate otherwise.

I am satisfied with this.

Finally, note Acts 4:4 -

But many of those who had heard the message believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand.

I have nothing to dispute this.

Here, it is crystal clear about the FACT that not everyone who heard the gospel message believed. It SAYS: "MANY OF THOSE who had heard the message believed".

These verses in Acts demonstrate conclusively that Jesus Christ died for everyone.

I never said otherwise.

Would you please interact with what I said.

btw, regarding your comment about the phrase "save yourselves", surely you know that Jesus said many times, "your faith has saved you", right? What do you do with those verses?

Believe them as written. It is your faith which will save you.

 

[EmSw]

In Acts 2:40, what do you consider is the best translation of Σώθητε ἀπὸ τῆς γενεᾶς, based on the grammar of Σώθητε?

These are some of the translations I have access to:

• 'Save yourselves from this untoward generation' (KJV)
• 'Be saved from this perverse generation' (NKJV)
  
• 'Save yourselves from this crooked generation' (ESV)
• 'Be saved from this perverse generation!' (NASB)
• 'Save yourselves from this corrupt generation' (NIV)
• 'Save yourselves from this corrupt generation' (NRSV)
• 'Be saved from this corrupt generation' (HCSB)
  

Oz

I am not a Greek scholar, so I don't know which is the best translation. But they all say the same thing. They all require action on the part of man.

 

[OzSpen]

I am not a Greek scholar, so I don't know which is the best translation. But they all say the same thing. They all require action on the part of man.

They actually don't all say the same thing. Let's look at them again:

In Acts 2:40, what do you consider is the best translation of Σώθητε ἀπὸ τῆς γενεᾶς, based on the grammar of Σώθητε?

These are some of the translations I have access to:

• 'Save yourselves from this untoward generation' (KJV)
• 'Be saved from this perverse generation' (NKJV)
• 'Save yourselves from this crooked generation' (ESV)
• 'Be saved from this perverse generation!' (NASB)
• 'Save yourselves from this corrupt generation' (NIV)
• 'Save yourselves from this corrupt generation' (NRSV)
• 'Be saved from this corrupt generation' (HCSB)

All of the verbs correctly translated Σώθητε (sothete) the verb as a command, 'Save' or 'Be saved' as it is an imperative verb. However, the verb is aorist imperative middle-passive. Therefore the verb could be translated as 'Save yourselves' (middle voice) of 'Be saved' (passive voice). Either one would be correct grammatically. However, when we compare with the rest of Scripture we know that Christians cannot save themselves. If it were not for the active grace of God in taking the initiative towards sinners, there would be no salvation.

Ephesians 2:8-9 makes that crystal clear. Therefore, any concept of 'save yourselves' should be abandoned as it is not consistent with the emphasis of Scripture of the need for God to take the initiative for salvation to be accomplished.

John 6:44 confirms this: 'No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day' (ESV).

Titus 2:11 affirms, 'For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people' (ESV).

Therefore, in my understanding of the Greek language and the context of the whole of Scripture, 'Be saved from this perverse generation!' (NASB) is the better translation of Acts 2:40.

Oz

 

[FreeGrace2]

How does one save himself?

Clearly one doesn't. God saves believers. The exhortation is to accept the message of the gospel. To believe the gospel. The phrase "save yourself" cannot be taken literally.

Believe them as written. It is your faith which will save you.

No, it is God who will save us. The action of our believing cannot save us. It is God's action upon those who believe that saves us.

 

[EmSw]

Clearly one doesn't. God saves believers. The exhortation is to accept the message of the gospel. To believe the gospel. The phrase "save yourself" cannot be taken literally.


No, it is God who will save us. The action of our believing cannot save us. It is God's action upon those who believe that saves us.

Luke 7 -
49 Those who were reclining at the table with Him began to say to themselves, “Who is this man who even forgives sins?”
50 And He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.

James 2:14 -
What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?


It is our faith which saves us, a faith with good works.

Although it is God which draws him, man must believe what the Savior taught and do them in order to be saved.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Luke 7 -
49 Those who were reclining at the table with Him began to say to themselves, “Who is this man who even forgives sins?”
50 And He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.

James 2:14 -
What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?

It is our faith which saves us, a faith with good works.

Although it is God which draws him, man must believe what the Savior taught and do them in order to be saved.

I expected to see these verses. If our faith does the saving, than God doesn't to the saving, right?

So, please explain what 1 Cor 1:21 means by the statement, "God is pleased…to save those who believe".

And explain Rom 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

The power in salvation comes from the gospel, which is the Word of God.

Of course man must believe. The Bible directly says so. But nowhere in the Bible do we find that we save ourselves by our action of believing.

btw, in Luke 7:50, the word "faith" is a noun, meaning the body of belief that is believed. And that compares with Ro 1:16. We are saved by what we believe. We are not saved from the act of believing.

Regarding James 2:14, it isn't even about eternal salvation. James was writing to those who were already saved. The second and third chapters are about the problem of hypocrisy. From the condemnation of favoritism at the beginning of ch 2 to what comes from the tongue; praising God while cursing men at the end of ch 3.

2:14 - 2:26 is about the problem of believers who aren't living their faith. We see this in the example James gives in 2:15,16. What a hypocrite! He says one thing, but does another, which is contrary to what he said. Hypocrisy.

Our faith saves us in the sense that it is what we believe that saves us.

To be clear, our action of believing, a verb, does not save us. There are no verses that indicate this.

 

[TheSeabass]

Acts 2:40 save yourselves
1 Tim 4:16 save thyself
2 Cor 7:1 cleanse ourselves
1 Pet 1:22 seeing you have purified your souls
2 Tim 2:21 if a man therefore purge himself
James 4:8 cleanse your hands, purify your hearts
Jude 1:21 keep yourselves in the love of God


Point being of these verses is man has a role in his own salvation. God already did His role in man's salvation by sending Christ to die for the sins of men. Now man must fulfill his role by obeying Christ to be saved, Heb 5:9 and those that do choose to obey Christ are in that sense saving themselves while those that choose not to obey Christ are losing themselves. God does not force salvation or condemnation upon man but has given man the role/option to choose to save himself (by obeying Christ) or lose himself.

 

[TheSeabass]

They actually don't all say the same thing. Let's look at them again:

In Acts 2:40, what do you consider is the best translation of Σώθητε ἀπὸ τῆς γενεᾶς, based on the grammar of Σώθητε?

These are some of the translations I have access to:

• 'Save yourselves from this untoward generation' (KJV)
• 'Be saved from this perverse generation' (NKJV)
• 'Save yourselves from this crooked generation' (ESV)
• 'Be saved from this perverse generation!' (NASB)
• 'Save yourselves from this corrupt generation' (NIV)
• 'Save yourselves from this corrupt generation' (NRSV)
• 'Be saved from this corrupt generation' (HCSB)

All of the verbs correctly translated Σώθητε (sothete) the verb as a command, 'Save' or 'Be saved' as it is an imperative verb. However, the verb is aorist imperative middle-passive. Therefore the verb could be translated as 'Save yourselves' (middle voice) of 'Be saved' (passive voice). Either one would be correct grammatically. However, when we compare with the rest of Scripture we know that Christians cannot save themselves. If it were not for the active grace of God in taking the initiative towards sinners, there would be no salvation.

Ephesians 2:8-9 makes that crystal clear. Therefore, any concept of 'save yourselves' should be abandoned as it is not consistent with the emphasis of Scripture of the need for God to take the initiative for salvation to be accomplished.

John 6:44 confirms this: 'No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day' (ESV).

Titus 2:11 affirms, 'For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people' (ESV).

Therefore, in my understanding of the Greek language and the context of the whole of Scripture, 'Be saved from this perverse generation!' (NASB) is the better translation of Acts 2:40.

Oz

Acts 2:40 "save yourselves" is passive voice but is also imperative mood. So you are commanded to save yourself.

How does one go about obeying the command to save himself passively?

Peter explained to them already how to "save themselves" when he commanded them to be baptized for remission of sins (remission of sins = saved).

"Be baptized" is also passive voice, imperative mood. One obeys this imperative by passively submitting himself to being water baptism where God does the work of removing the body of sin (Col 2:11,12).

So one 'saves himself' by choosing to passively submit himself to baptism to have his sins remitted. one 'loses himself' by choosing not to passively submit himself to water baptism thereby remain lost in his unremitted sins.