Behold

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One more thing i love about the Bible is that the word of God will always show you things , and show you more......and more....

The Bible, the word of God, talks to you by revealing to the spiritual "eyes of your understanding", more LIGHT..

You could spend your life sitting in a cave on the side of a mountain... and all you do is study the topic of "The Cross", and you'll never learn it all, as this "Tree of Grace", has so many BLOOD roots that its just impossible to know everything about its redemptive Fruit.........but, what a joy it is to learn as much as you can, while you can...

"Study"....

Now, here is something that you've not been shown before, i'm pretty certain, and if your Teacher, Preacher, Bishop, Minister, or similar, HAS shown you this simple yet astounding fact about The Cross, then i'd wager that they are a deep student of the Apostle Paul and are someone you are fortunate to have found.

Look now at this verse.

"i am crucified with Christ"...

That's a simple part of a verse, huh?

Now.... lets make grow...

Who is crucified with Christ? ????

Who???

= Everyone who is SAVED. Are you saved? If you are born again, then you are saved. So, what happened to your "old man", when you were born again as a "new creation"?

Well, that "old man" that "sinner", was "crucified with Christ".. This is why the NT teaches you that Jesus BECAME your sin.. He didnt just bear it,.....Christ literally Became SIN.....

The verse is.. 2 Corinthians 5:21 ""For GOD hath made JESUS to be SIN for US, who Himself knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God IN him."" (In Christ).

See that verse? Its not preached much, but its the Atom Bomb regarding "Justification by Faith". It just taught you that GOD made His SON to "BE YOUR SIN"..... and then Christ DIED, and SO DID YOUR SIN.... Your "old man", your fallen man, the "sinner" part of you, that was judged by the law,.....IS DEAD.

AND THIS is why you are a "New Creation, IN CHRIST"....... You are no longer that old man of sin, or that sin nature....you are now Risen with Christ, as the "new Birth", exactly the same as Christ is RISEN from Death and walked out of that tomb.

You are now 'IN CHRIST" as you died with Him when He became your SIN and your "old man", , and you rose AGAIN with Him...as a "SON" as a "Child of GOD", Newly BORN AGAIN, when you were born again.

Got it??

So, i had to show you that so that i could now show you my Thread's topic...

Every person who is born again, died on the Same Cross with Christ... "i am crucified ......with Christ".. That means that there have been millions of people since 33AD, who have literally been on the Cross with Christ and DIED and rose again. as the "new birth", "born again",= " In Christ"..

Notice that Thief on the Cross who trusted in Christ before He died... Well, he died physically on His Cross, and died also on Jesus's Cross.....as He also became....."i am crucified WITH CHRIST"... So, he got to experience 2 Crosses that same day..

One day when you are in Glory with Christ and the Father, you can find that born again Thief and ask him about that....





B
 
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Mr. M

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Look now at this verse.

"I am crucified with Christ"...
When Paul makes this statement, he is referring to himself. A bold confession of faith indeed. By this he states that he is set free from the Law, in preparation for chapter 3, where he admonishes his readers for wanting to return to the Law, after having begun in the Spirit. To suggest that everyone who "says the sinners prayer" has crucified their flesh with its desires is inconsistent with what all the apostles taught. That a true faith walk will endure trials and tribulations which will be for our good, in putting to death the flesh nature.
1 Peter 4:1, 2. Therefore, since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
To abide in the Spirit, to endure hardship as a good soldier, etc.. is to have faith in the process. The work of the Spirit by the Will of God. This is to be crucified with Christ:
Colossians 1:24. I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church, of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God which was given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God.
For anyone to think that they are automatically ushered into the place that Paul is speaking from by simply confessing and believing is to bypass our walk of faith entirely.
James 1:4. But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.
Then you can confess, like Paul, I am crucified with Christ.
 
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Behold

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To abide in the Spirit, to endure hardship as a good soldier, etc.. is to have faith in the process. The work of the Spirit by the Will of God. This is to be crucified with Christ:

Actually thats not how it works.
When Paul is teaching about being crucified WITH Christ, he is talking about this.....

So, what happened to your "old man", when you were born again as a "new creation"?

Well, that "old man" that "sinner", was "crucified with Christ".. This is why the NT teaches you that Jesus BECAME your sin.. He didnt just bear it,.....Christ literally Became SIN.....

The verse is.. 2 Corinthians 5:21 ""For GOD hath made JESUS to be SIN for US, who Himself knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God IN him."" (In Christ).

See that verse? Its not preached much, but its the Atom Bomb regarding "Justification by Faith". It just taught you that GOD made His SON to "BE YOUR SIN"..... and then Christ DIED, and SO DID YOUR SIN.... Your "old man", your fallen man, the "sinner" part of you, that was judged by the law,.....IS DEAD.

AND THIS is why you are a "New Creation, IN CHRIST"....... You are no longer that old man of sin, or that sin nature....you are now Risen with Christ, as the "new Birth", exactly the same as Christ is RISEN from Death and walked out of that tomb.

You are now 'IN CHRIST" as you died with Him when He became your SIN and your "old man", , and you rose AGAIN with Him...as a "SON" as a "Child of GOD", Newly BORN AGAIN, when you were born again.
-
 
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Mr. M

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Actually thats not how it works.
When Paul is teaching about being crucified WITH Christ, he is talking about this.....

So, what happened to your "old man", when you were born again as a "new creation"?

Well, that "old man" that "sinner", was "crucified with Christ".. This is why the NT teaches you that Jesus BECAME your sin.. He didnt just bear it,.....Christ literally Became SIN.....

The verse is.. 2 Corinthians 5:21 ""For GOD hath made JESUS to be SIN for US, who Himself knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God IN him."" (In Christ).

See that verse? Its not preached much, but its the Atom Bomb regarding "Justification by Faith". It just taught you that GOD made His SON to "BE YOUR SIN"..... and then Christ DIED, and SO DID YOUR SIN.... Your "old man", your fallen man, the "sinner" part of you, that was judged by the law,.....IS DEAD.
Yes, I am familiar with that verse. If the old man is crucified With Christ, and we are a new creation
In Christ, what happens to those who have fallen away From Christ?
2 Peter 2: 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
Old Testament>Obey. New Testament>Obey, through a new and living Way. And yet, obey we must.
 
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Behold

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Yes, I am familiar with that verse. If the old man is crucified With Christ, and we are a new creation
In Christ, what happens to those who have fallen away From Christ?
2 Peter 2: 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
Old Testament>Obey. New Testament>Obey, through a new and living Way. And yet, obey we must.

Notice that Peter is not describing the Born again. He refers not to them as WE, Brethren, Sons of God, ....he refers to them as THEY....
Then, he says they turned away from the "holy commandment".
Well, the Gospel, is not a commandment, M. Monarddo.
A commandment, is one of the 10, or one of the 2 that Jesus gave, and none of those are the GOSPEL.

Also, you have this idea that falling away from Christ, somehow gets Christ out of you. That you can become Un-born, again...
Listen.
Do you understand that being BORN AGAIN, does not mean DOWN HERE?
It means you are BORN INTO THE SPIRIT OF GOD< by The Spirit of God.
God has come to LIVE IN YOU, or as Paul says.."do you not know you are the TEMPLE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT"?
God is IN YOU< and you are "IN CHRIST"...
So, if a born again person, were to go to Hell, then they would TAKE GOD AND CHRIST AND THE HOLY SPIRIT WITH THEM....as these are IN the Born again......
They don't fall out, M. Monardo.
Salvation is not a YO-YO where one day you are BORN, then the next day you are un-born.
So all the scriptures that someone used to twist your thinking about Salvation, are simply verses that someone is trying to misuse to prove what isn't possible.

Show me a verse that says That Christ can or will leave you, or fall out of you, or get rid of you.
Christ says you will NEVER PERISH...... So, you can't end up in Hell, when you are eternally IN CHRIST.
A born again person is SPIRITUALLY REBORN INTO GOD.....And His Spirit is IN US.
You cant change that by being a bad person, and you can't get that from God by being a Good person.
THERE ARE NONE.
WHERE ARE THE BORN AGAIN? WE ARE IN CHRIST>...
IN HIM>
This can't be changed, ... because you can't stop being BORN, after you are BORN AGAIN.
 
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Mr. M

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Actually thats not how it works.
When Paul is teaching about being crucified WITH Christ, he is talking about this.....

So, what happened to your "old man", when you were born again as a "new creation"?

Well, that "old man" that "sinner", was "crucified with Christ".. This is why the NT teaches you that Jesus BECAME your sin.. He didnt just bear it,.....Christ literally Became SIN.....

The verse is.. 2 Corinthians 5:21 ""For GOD hath made JESUS to be SIN for US, who Himself knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God IN him."" (In Christ).

See that verse? Its not preached much, but its the Atom Bomb regarding "Justification by Faith". It just taught you that GOD made His SON to "BE YOUR SIN"..... and then Christ DIED, and SO DID YOUR SIN.... Your "old man", your fallen man, the "sinner" part of you, that was judged by the law,.....IS DEAD.

AND THIS is why you are a "New Creation, IN CHRIST"....... You are no longer that old man of sin, or that sin nature....you are now Risen with Christ, as the "new Birth", exactly the same as Christ is RISEN from Death and walked out of that tomb.

You are now 'IN CHRIST" as you died with Him when He became your SIN and your "old man", , and you rose AGAIN with Him...as a "SON" as a "Child of GOD", Newly BORN AGAIN, when you were born again.
-
The apostle Paul warns the gentiles:
Romans 11:22. Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
I think that you are familiar with the idea of being cut off, 'karath'.
Numbers 9:13. But the man who is clean and is not on a journey, and ceases to keep the Passover, that same person shall be cut off from among his people, because he did not bring the offering of the LORD at its appointed time; that man shall bear his sin.
Matthew 7:19, 20. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Therefore by their fruits you will know them
.
As to the commandment of the Lord, there is but one.
John 13:34. A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
1 John 3:23. And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
1 John 4:21. And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God love his brother also.
1 John 5:3. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
1 Timothy 1:5. Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith.
2 Peter 2: 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the Holy commandment delivered to them.
 
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Mr. M

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Hebrews 12:Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: 15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; 16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. 17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.
What does he mean, fail of the grace of God? That can't be right. Maybe he means this:
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
The parable of the 10 virgins in Matthew 25? We could keep going, but the point is that what you do with your life matters. What you are holding to is used, and has been used to justify not doing anything as a Believer, because everything is already done in Christ. You are a bondservant of Christ, until He calls you his friend. Be faithful to the end. For Yeshua has said:
Matthew 24:13. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
When you see the falling away, and a remnant remain, you will know. I pray you will be among them.
 
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Behold

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The apostle Paul warns the gentiles:
Romans 11:22. Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
.

You are not saved by "goodness", as you don have any. You are born into sin, and your attempts to be good are defined as "filthy rags" in the epistle to the Romans, written by the one who gave the Body of Christ, the doctrine of "justification by faith" = Alone.
So, you are a dirty, rotten, lost, hell bound sinner,, exactly the same as every other human that was ever born, until the blood of Jesus washes you clean, and redeems you from ALL your sin.
Understand, that Jesus became your sin on the Cross. He didnt just die for it.
So, never try to pretend that of your SELF EFFORT God will save you or keep you saved.
He will NOT.
Only teach that God, using the blood of Jesus, redeems you, and He only does this if you have given Him your FAITH.......NOT YOUR WORKS.
"faith is accepted AS THE Righteousness of God" that is imputed to you as "the GIFT of Righteousness."""
ALL Your works, prior to the Cross as well as after you are saved, are just as dirty as if God never saved you at all.
Never present yourself as having anything to do with your own salvation, unless you have nail prints in your hands and a scar on your side and you rose from the Dead.
So, until you are THAT PERSON, then only Give Christ and Christ alone full credit for saving you and keeping you saved.
Do not continue to try to use NT verses yanked out of context for the purpose of denying God's Grace on a public forum or anywhere at all.
Give God as Christ on the Cross all the credit due Him ALONE, for saving you and keeping you saved.
 
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Mr. M

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You are not saved by "goodness", as you don have any. You are born into sin, and your attempts to be good are defined as "filthy rags" in the epistle to the Romans, written by the one who gave the Body of Christ, the doctrine of "justification by faith" = Alone.
So, you are a dirty, rotten, lost, hell bound sinner,, exactly the same as every other human that was ever born, until the blood of Jesus washes you clean, and redeems you from ALL your sin.
Understand, that Jesus became your sin on the Cross. He didnt just die for it.
So, never try to pretend that of your SELF EFFORT God will save you or keep you saved.
He will NOT.
Only teach that God, using the blood of Jesus, redeems you, and He only does this if you have given Him your FAITH.......NOT YOUR WORKS.
"faith is accepted AS THE Righteousness of God" that is imputed to you as "the GIFT of Righteousness."""
ALL Your works, prior to the Cross as well as after you are saved, are just as dirty as if God never saved you at all.
Never present yourself as having anything to do with your own salvation, unless you have nail prints in your hands and a scar on your side and you rose from the Dead.
So, until you are THAT PERSON, then only Give Christ and Christ alone full credit for saving you and keeping you saved.
Do not continue to try to use NT verses yanked out of context for the purpose of denying God's Grace on a public forum or anywhere at all.
Give God as Christ on the Cross all the credit due Him ALONE, for saving you and keeping you saved.
That was impressive. I just have one question for you. Are we who are redeemed for God's purpose, and now servants of our Lord and Savior, the Master of the Universe, expected to obey Him? All I have said is that we are expected to live a life in accordance with what God expects. The Grace of God is not a golden ticket to heaven, it is the empowerment from God to live in righteousness and holiness all the days of our life. If you would like to continue to live your life as a dirty, rotten scoundrel to prove God's grace, understand that is what many, even in the time of Paul, were teaching. I give God all the glory and live in daily praise and thanksgiving for His Son. I do not dishonor Him by engaging in self-righteous rants on a public forum, or anywhere at all. Which gift of the Holy Spirit were you manifesting here this morning?
 
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Mr. M

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You are not saved by "goodness", as you don have any. You are born into sin, and your attempts to be good are defined as "filthy rags" in the epistle to the Romans, written by the one who gave the Body of Christ, the doctrine of "justification by faith" = Alone.
Interesting that you would accuse me of pulling NT verses out of context. First, the verse that I quote from Romans states 'if you continue in His goodness', not your own, so your comment 'not saved by goodness' isn't a correct understanding of his point. Jesus told the generation in Israel at the time He walked the earth that ALL the blood of the prophets would be accounted for by THIS generation. Israel has paid double for his sins. The proclamation of God for us who serve Him is "Comfort My People". The world that Jesus died for has persecuted the Jewish people for two millenium and often justified themselves by saying "they killed Jesus". No! Paul's message in Romans 11:33; Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
James 2:13. For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.
Matthew 6:15. But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Grace and Mercy are God's unspeakable gift to us, given by the death and resurrection of His Only Begotten Son Jesus Christ. But He is also a God of Righteous Judgment. Christians who say they are saved by faith in Jesus Christ, but hate Jews, show themselves to be liars. You will know them by their fruit.
James 2:18-26. But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works....
Martin Luther reviled James because of chapter two of his epistle. He also despised the Jew. Maybe he just didn't have a right understanding of Paul's 'justification by faith', not by works of the Law. If your heart is open to God, and your conscience is under the guidance and counsel of the Holy Spirit you are free from the Law. You do not need 613 commands , you abide in the Holy Spirit, by obeying The Voice.
Jeremiah 7:23. But this is what I commanded them, saying, ‘Obey My voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be My people.
2 Peter 3:18. Grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.
 
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Behold

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That was impressive. I just have one question for you. Are we who are redeemed for God's purpose, and now servants of our Lord and Savior, the Master of the Universe, expected to obey Him? All I have said is that we are expected to live a life in accordance with what God expects. The Grace of God is not a golden ticket to heaven, it is the empowerment from God to live in righteousness and holiness all the days of our life. If you would like to continue to live your life as a dirty, rotten scoundrel to prove God's grace, understand that is what many, even in the time of Paul, were teaching. I give God all the glory and live in daily praise and thanksgiving for His Son. I do not dishonor Him by engaging in self-righteous rants on a public forum, or anywhere at all. Which gift of the Holy Spirit were you manifesting here this morning?

Which HS gift am i manifesting?
im just a simple person, a simple evangelist who has a gift for teaching a certain specific, regarding the NT.

So, listen. . What you are describing is discipleship. Its the works, the self effort, the performance we maintain, with respect to the one we follow.
Here is the thing..... you can be a disciple of Christ and not be born again.
You can follow the teachings of Christ, very strictly, and end up in hell after you die.
Discipleship, is NOT Salvation., and its not that many believers who can even begin to separate why we do it, from How God saved us thru Christ.

So, we ARE to live holy, be holy, and i could post "present your bodies a living sacrifice', and the other go to verses that most know, however, i know they are not related to HOW you are born again, or what keeps you saved.
And a Legalist is not able to know this or see it, or even comprehend it, and that is why they BELIEVE in their works as their means to STAY SAVED.

What is a Christian? Its to know you are saved by the Blood of God on the Cross, and kept saved by the same, because YOU ARE.
What is a "fallen from Grace" christian? They will say..."yes, the blood atonement started my salvation but then i have to..."do the LIST".....and here comes their list, and that LIST has replaced their Faith in Christ.
See, there is no option in God's Grace to add rules to it that you must keep so that Grace stays effective.
Adding self effort to the Gospel of Grace is HERESY and many are become heretics because of this very situation.
Salvation is not.....The Cross, + works. or. The Cross + Lifestyle
No.
Salvation IS That Cross, and Jesus's Blood.
Paul said he preached "Christ Crucified". Paul taught "justification by faith, and "the gift of righteousness" AS God's Grace.
A heretic will disown that, and replace the Cross and Grace and Paul with a LIST of things they believe they AND YOU have TO DO< to STAY SAVED.

See that? That is the dividing line between a heretic and a True Believer.
Its that "STAY SAVED" issue.
A heretic is not trusting in Christ alone to KEEP THEM SAVED. They will show you their list, that includes verses, and then they will talk about self effort.
And all THAT, is now their savior, their FAITH... and so they have "fallen from Grace".
 
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Mr. M

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Which HS gift am i manifesting?
im just a simple person, a simple evangelist who has a gift for teaching a certain specific, regarding the NT
The reason I asked this question brother is just as you have been stating, we must be born from above by the Holy Spirit. Evangelist is a ministry that requires an anointing, and you want people to hear the Message that convicts their heart, to turn to God. This is not your works for your salvation Alright. It is your service to the kingdom of our Lord for others salvation. Abiding under the anointing to serve is what keeps you from failing the grace of God and falling back into a wayward lifestyle. How that plays out at the judgment is up to Yeshua. You speak of discipleship, and well we should. People who call themselves pastor are accountable for the care of their flock. The concern we must share is that all who claim to be evangelists are proclaiming The Son of God, crucified for the sin of the world. Not a salvation that persuades people that if they accept Jesus (make a decision is another way I have heard it expressed), they will go to heaven when they die. The Apostolic, Message of Messiah is of a coming resurrection from the dead and the righteous judgment of God by His Son. Not die and go to heaven, live a life now that pleases God, not that you will be saved, but that you will stand at the judgment and hear 'Well Done'.
Paul put it this way:
1 Corinthians 3:12-15. Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
The concern that I address in my writings is as you say, discipleship. I am not an Evangelist, I am a teacher. So many people who have accepted the message of salvation in these days are convinced that how they live their life doesn't matter, because that would be trying to work for their salvation. But in the above verse and in so many others, the apostles taught not just of salvation but reward. Without proper discipleship, and pastoring without teaching that emphasizes this teaching, they make themselves to be thieves and liars. There is this notion that they are bringing in the great end time harvest, and as long as they are 'getting people saved', they are doing the Lord's work. I am not on this forum trying to get anybody saved. I am addressing Christians who should be saved, teaching them of things that many are not receiving in other places. In particular, that we are in a covenant, and a covenant comes with obligations. For Gentiles especially, that they have an obligation to extend mercy to ALL Jews, not just those who call themselves Messianic. I posted yesterday on that subject with an essay entitled "Comfort My People". I hope and pray that you would find that message comforting. Do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of your ministry, but don't mistake what I write as evangelism. What I receive from above in extended times of devotion I present to the church for their edification, not to get them saved. Shalom.
2 John 1:8. Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.
 
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Behold

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The reason I asked this question brother is just as you have been stating, we must be born from above by the Holy Spirit. Evangelist is a ministry that requires an anointing, and you want people to hear the Message that convicts their heart, to turn to God. This is not your works for your salvation Alright. It is your service to the kingdom of our Lord for others salvation. Abiding under the anointing to serve is what keeps you from failing the grace of God and falling back into a wayward lifestyle. How that plays out at the judgment is up to Yeshua. You speak of discipleship, and well we should. People who call themselves pastor are accountable for the care of their flock. The concern we must share is that all who claim to be evangelists are proclaiming The Son of God, crucified for the sin of the world. Not a salvation that persuades people that if they accept Jesus (make a decision is another way I have heard it expressed), they will go to heaven when they die. The Apostolic, Message of Messiah is of a coming resurrection from the dead and the righteous judgment of God by His Son. Not die and go to heaven, live a life now that pleases God, not that you will be saved, but that you will stand at the judgment and hear 'Well Done'.
Paul put it this way:
1 Corinthians 3:12-15. Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
The concern that I address in my writings is as you say, discipleship. I am not an Evangelist, I am a teacher. So many people who have accepted the message of salvation in these days are convinced that how they live their life doesn't matter, because that would be trying to work for their salvation. But in the above verse and in so many others, the apostles taught not just of salvation but reward. Without proper discipleship, and pastoring without teaching that emphasizes this teaching, they make themselves to be thieves and liars. There is this notion that they are bringing in the great end time harvest, and as long as they are 'getting people saved', they are doing the Lord's work. I am not on this forum trying to get anybody saved. I am addressing Christians who should be saved, teaching them of things that many are not receiving in other places. In particular, that we are in a covenant, and a covenant comes with obligations. For Gentiles especially, that they have an obligation to extend mercy to ALL Jews, not just those who call themselves Messianic. I posted yesterday on that subject with an essay entitled "Comfort My People". I hope and pray that you would find that message comforting. Do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of your ministry, but don't mistake what I write as evangelism. What I receive from above in extended times of devotion I present to the church for their edification, not to get them saved. Shalom.
2 John 1:8. Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.
 
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Behold

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The reason I asked this question brother is just as you have been stating, we must be born from above by the Holy Spirit.

You wanted me to give you my credentials.
Ok, im seminary trained.
im a called evangelist, that you describe as "anointed".
Im aware of the Bema seat, and im familiar with strict discipleship.
If you asked me to define myself as my denomination, i will not respond with the name of it, as there are no Denominations in Heaven, only Born Again Christians.
However, as i said, im seminary trained, so, i am affiliated with a denomination.
I instead just simply describe myself as a "bible believing Christian".
The fact that i sometimes live in Israel, and that im married to a Messianic Jew, will provide you, i hope with some evidence that im familiar with "jews", and being that im a spiritual Jew, i guess that also qualifies me.
What i find that is needed in Christianity today, is a DEEP return to this verse.
Hebrews 13:9, as so many Christians are become heretics ether because they never started their Christian walk with that verse, or until this day they are not even aware that its in the NT.
From there, we need to teach always, the fundamentals of the faith, as described as "Pauline Theology".
So much more i can say, but, as i said previously, im pretty simple.
 
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Mr. M

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You wanted me to give you my credentials.
Ok, im seminary trained.
im a called evangelist, that you describe as "anointed".
Not your credentials, for I have none. You said called to be an evangelist. That answered my question. I wanted to make clear that I am not on this forum as an evangelist. I am posting writings for people who are Christians, as a teacher. We may have different callings, but it must be the same Spirit working. I hope you understand where I am coming from a little better now.
I saw you listed your home as Natanya. I was looking for Messianic Congregations there the other day after we messaged. I found Beit Asaph. Is that where you fellowship? I see they support ministry work in Uganda. I think that is awesome. I will always be a friend to the Jew, and a servant to the Holy One of Israel.
 
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Behold

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Not your credentials, for I have none. You said called to be an evangelist. That answered my question. I wanted to make clear that I am not on this forum as an evangelist. I am posting writings for people who are Christians, as a teacher. We may have different callings, but it must be the same Spirit working. I hope you understand where I am coming from a little better now.
I saw you listed your home as Natanya. I was looking for Messianic Congregations there the other day after we messaged. I found Beit Asaph. Is that where you fellowship? I see they support ministry work in Uganda. I think that is awesome. I will always be a friend to the Jew, and a servant to the Holy One of Israel.

That is a good congregation you listed.
And if a church has no Missionaries, then they have no perfect reason to call themselves a church.
Churches need be birthing workers, not just entertaining those on the pew for the sake of a tithe.

You say it must be the same Spirit working for us to agree, and for us to be here for the same reason..
How could i not agree?

So, lets find out if the same Spirit is working in us both..
I know how to test this, if you are up for it?

Just tell me what you are trusting in to keep you saved, and to get you into heaven, if you should die today.


i'll be back later, have to leave now...

thx,



B
 
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Mr. M

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The blood of the Lamb.
Revelation 12:11. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.
Matthew 24:13. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Revelation 2:26. And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—
Something for you to think about....
© Info
 
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Behold

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The blood of the Lamb.
Revelation 12:11. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.
Matthew 24:13. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Revelation 2:26. And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—
Something for you to think about....
© Info

I have not read the "info" link, but i will go there..

Ummmmm.
your answers..

Well, The Blood of the Lamb is the only answer that God accepts, because its the only sacrifice He offers to pay for your sin..
Its a peculiar idea that many christians share with non, that somehow they must add to that finished work of Jesus on the cross, some self effort..
Every legalist lives in Hebrews, Matthew, and James, and quoties "enduring to the end, overcoming, obedience, and commandment keeping", as their personal self saving Gospel that rejects the real one.
Also, about that "overcoming"..
This is how that works..
"""""Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God". 1 John 5:5


B
 
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Mr. M

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Every legalist lives in Hebrews, Matthew, and James, and quoties "enduring to the end, overcoming, obedience, and commandment keeping", as their personal self saving Gospel that rejects the real one.
Also, about that "overcoming"..
This is how that works..
Okay, well I guess we are done here.
 
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