Morality without God

[GenemZ]

I will ask you a question, and I want this as a main priority in your response. What is your opinion on giving women in labor anesthesia?

As far as what? Hurting the fetus? Its not a "Christianity" question. Its a secular question.

 

[Cis.jd]

As far as what? Hurting the fetus? Its not a "Christianity" question. Its a secular question.

No. The woman is in labor, she is pain. Is it wrong or right to help decrease the pain?

 

[Cis.jd]

First of all. South Korea has a significant Christian population.
Christianity in Korea - New World Encyclopedia

Japan has been emulating the USA for some time now and enjoys studying our way of life.

India's morals was influenced by British rule that forced out brutal practices when it could.

Only 44% of the population has an actual religion KOSIS

Japan "emulating" the USA is meaningless, because they are in majority not christian. The first sentence in your link proves my point: East Asia was one of the last areas to receive Christianity, beginning in about the seventeenth century.

These 2 countries have always recognized some of the laws you posted from the Bible, even before Christians reached their lands.

 

[GenemZ]

Only 44% of the population has an actual religion KOSIS

Japan "emulating" the USA is meaningless, because they are in majority not christian. The first sentence in your link proves my point: East Asia was one of the last areas to receive Christianity, beginning in about the seventeenth century.

These 2 countries have always recognized some of the laws you posted from the Bible, even before Christians reached their lands.

I had a conversation with a Korean who told me that Christianity was very strong in Korea. He was even citing percentages. Christianity does not have to be large to influence a culture as long as its not tiny. Why do you think we see Korean cars with the names like Genesis? Soul? We do not even get that sort of thing in the states.

 

[GenemZ]

No. The woman is in labor, she is pain. Is it wrong or right to help decrease the pain?

Are you serious? What is your reasoning?

 

[Cis.jd]

Are you serious? What is your reasoning?

Can you answer my question straight?
Do you think it's wrong/immoral to give a woman in labor anesthesia or any form of care to help decrease labor pains?

 

[Cis.jd]

I had a conversation with a Korean who told me that Christianity was very strong in Korea. He was even citing percentages. Christianity does not have to be large to influence a culture as long as its not tiny. Why do you think we see Korean cars with the names like Genesis? Soul? We do not even get that sort of thing in the states.

We are not on the topic of christian population. The point is, the examples you gave on morality are not exclusive to only christians. Koreans internally knew and where taught with their pre-christian religions that murder, stealing, rape was wrong.

 

[GenemZ]

Can you answer my question straight?
Do you think it's wrong/immoral to give a woman in labor anesthesia or any form of care to help decrease labor pains?

I see no moral issue with that. What I wonder about is why do you?

You are talking about me being straight with you? Yet, your question is absurd.

 

[GenemZ]

We are not on the topic of christian population. The point is, the examples you gave on morality are not exclusive to only christians. Koreans internally knew and where taught with their pre-christian religions that murder, stealing, rape was wrong.

Morality spreads after its started... Morality was not designed for Christians exclusively. God decreed morality to keep the idiotic unregenerate from self destructing. Morality for for believers and unbelievers.

 

[Cis.jd]

I see no moral issue with that. What I wonder about is why do you?

You are talking about me being straight with you? Yet, your question is absurd.

Good. However, are you aware that during the 1800's. Christians where highly against giving women any form of treatment in helping them with labor pains.
They said it was immoral because it contradicts the verse in Genesis 3:16. God "commanded" women to suffer so giving them medical treatment to kill/ease the pain was considered immoral and contradicting God's laws.

What do you think of that?

 

[Cis.jd]

Morality spreads after its started... Morality was not designed for Christians exclusively. God decreed morality to keep the idiotic unregenerate from self destructing. Morality for for believers and unbelievers.

Sure, as a Catholic. I believe God designed our morality.. but i'm saying Christians have made this statement highly unbelievable, so it's a bad argument. In fact, other non-Judeo Christian religions have less violence and immoral records that Christianity.

In the past, you even argued how doing good doesn't save, believing in Jesus is all that is needed. This reasoning eliminates the importance of morality, because what is the use of any of those commandments if in the end, only 1 thing is accepted by God?

 

[GenemZ]

Good. However, are you aware that during the 1800's. Christians where highly against giving women any form of treatment in helping them with labor pains.
They said it was immoral because it contradicts the verse in Genesis 3:16. God "commanded" women to suffer so giving them medical treatment to kill/ease the pain was considered immoral and contradicting God's laws.

What do you think of that?

I do not remember that very well. I was only a little boy at the time.


All Christians? What a joke. Is that all you can dig up? Cults pop up at any time in history.

Any Christian worth his salt knows that once we are in Christ we have been delivered from the curse of the Law.

 

[GenemZ]

Sure, as a Catholic. I believe God designed our morality.. but i'm saying Christians have made this statement highly unbelievable, so it's a bad argument. In fact, other non-Judeo Christian religions have less violence and immoral records that Christianity.

Fake news. Terrible violence came out from non Judeo Christian religions. Horrid abuses. You have not really studied history very well.

And, the abuses that you speak of stem from when the Catholic church went apostate. Its why God decreed the Reformation.

 

[Cis.jd]

Fake news. Terrible violence came out from non Judeo Christian religions. Horrid abuses. You have not really studied history very well.

And, the abuses that you speak of stem from when the Catholic church went apostate. Its why God decreed the Reformation.

In a collective statistic. Christianity compared to other non-Judeo Christians has a higher rate of recorded violence. That is historical fact.

Protestantism has it's own share of violence and evils too. From frauds and scandals that happen today to witch hunts and other anti-medical subjects.

 

[Cis.jd]

I do not remember that very well. I was only a little boy at the time.

All Christians? What a joke. Is that all you can dig up? Cults pop up at any time in history.

Any Christian worth his salt knows that once we are in Christ we have been delivered from the curse of the Law.

Yes, a vast majority of Christians in Europe where against anesthesia and where politicking against it back in the 1800s. The 1800's is when pain medication for child labor started being used.
Christians felt that it contradicted God, who intended women to suffer as punishment for the sin in Gen 3:16.

The Legacy of Eve's Curse: Religion, Childbirth Pain, and the Rise of Anesthesia in Europe: c. 1200-1800s

Your "not all christians" doesn't matter, because through this you can tell how biblical fundamentalist christians can't tell what right or wrong is. Hence making the morality argument not a good argument on the christian side.

 

[GenemZ]

In a collective statistic. Christianity compared to other non-Judeo Christians has a higher rate of recorded violence. That is historical fact.

Protestantism has it's own share of violence and evils too. From frauds and scandals that happen today to witch hunts and other anti-medical subjects.

The keyword here is, "recorded." Christians are willing to fess up and take note of their mistakes. Today many evil things that happen go unreported. For evil does that.

As far as your other stuff? I would suggest to stop looking through a microscope. Its nothing compared to nations not influenced by the Bible. The Inquisition and the deaths caused by the Catholic church in its height of corruption makes all the other things pale in comparison. Subtract the Catholic church from the sins of Christianity and very little was done compared to the jihads of Islam.

 

[GenemZ]

Yes, a vast majority of Christians in Europe where against anesthesia and where politicking against it back in the 1800s. The 1800's is when pain medication for child labor started being used.
Christians felt that it contradicted God, who intended women to suffer as punishment for the sin in Gen 3:16.

The Legacy of Eve's Curse: Religion, Childbirth Pain, and the Rise of Anesthesia in Europe: c. 1200-1800s

Your "not all christians" doesn't matter, because through this you can tell how biblical fundamentalist christians can't tell what right or wrong is. Hence making the morality argument not a good argument on the christian side.

Defensive a bit are you?

 

[Cis.jd]

The keyword here is, "recorded." Christians are willing to fess up and take note of their mistakes. Today many evil things that happen go unreported. For evil does that.

That isn't even the argument. The point is, there is no reasonable argument christians can make now for morality as some form evidence of the christian God. Christians have lost this as an effective case a long time ago, just by the examples of history and now of christians who not only can't tell what is right or wrong, but unintentionally shown morality to be meaningless.

As far as your other stuff? I would suggest to stop looking through a microscope. Its nothing compared to nations not influenced by the Bible. The Inquisition and the deaths caused by the Catholic church in its height of corruption makes all the other things pale in comparison. Subtract the Catholic church from the sins of Christianity and very little was done compared to the jihads of Islam.

Protestants are still guilty, even to this day. The majority of slave owners where Protestants, The Massacre of St Barholomew.. protestant churches having pastors arrested for human trafficking...
Then you have here in CF, with telling battered/abused wives that they should stay with their husbands, and so on. so it's not just Catholic, and for you to go on a vs debate on who did more bad is not only silly but out of the argument.

 

[Cis.jd]

Defensive a bit are you?

how is that being defensive?

 

[GenemZ]

That isn't even the argument. The point is, there is no reasonable argument christians can make now for morality as some form evidence of the christian God.

Are you a Christian? You do not argue like one.