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Morality without God

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Thomas White, Feb 20, 2020.

  1. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    Exactly
     
  2. Kris Jordan

    Kris Jordan Acts 4:12

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    Hi Thomas White,

    I'm not sure if this is a question related to God's existence or to one's actions. So = Yes and no.

    One can act "morally" in certain situations without having a saving relationship with Jesus. However, nobody can be moral (or even act morally) unless God exists since He is the one who sets the standards for morality, perfection, holiness, etc.
     
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  3. Thomas White

    Thomas White Well-Known Member

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    So humans are inherently evil without the influence of God?
     
  4. DNB

    DNB Member

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    The question is too hypothetical, because without God, we would not be created in his image, and therefore we would not have the innate awareness of good & evil, that everyone is referring to. Meaning, you wouldn't have even brought up the question in a strictly material universe.

    So, besides the fact that without God, there would be neither a consensus nor standard of right and wrong, that even the principle of the survival of the fittest, would be a viable and defensible modus operandi.
    But also, we wouldn't even be having this dialogue, as it is only his image that is within us, that allows for such a spiritual and intangible perception in the first place.

    So, the answer is a categorical, no!
     
  5. PaulCyp1

    PaulCyp1 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No, you cannot, because the definition of genuine morality is "in accord with the will of God". Any other versions of "morality" are simply what certain humans want to have freedom to do, without regard for objective morality.
     
  6. Ricky M

    Ricky M Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well, I've seen Christians who were immoral, so....
     
  7. Peter J Barban

    Peter J Barban Well-Known Member

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    "mo·ral·i·ty: principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior"

    Sure, you can be moral without God. You just need to have a system for determining right from wrong. My father was a moral Atheist. I never saw him violate his principles.

    Before becoming a Christian, I was an agnostic Catholic and followed my moral principals carefully. I was probably more moral than most Christians on this forum.

    Now I am a Christian and my morals come from the Bible. That is standard that I often violate. Fortunately, my righteousness comes from faith in Christ not my morality.
     
  8. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Morality without God is vain conceit.
     
  9. DNB

    DNB Member

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    But you can't, for even the concept of principles would not exist in a solely secular universe. No other creature on earth has 'principles', that they live by as a dogmatic rule. This notion is an endowment from God, exclusively to man.
     
  10. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    Rom. 3:10
    As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

    Rom. 3:12
    They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
     
  11. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Not truly.... no. Sure, a person can imitate morality, but they cannot do good. There is none good but God. Believers are to let God do the good work through them. Believers are to abide in God's love and good ways. The good they do is by God working in them. For they can do nothing without Jesus (John 15:5). So in conclusion: No. Nobody can truly be moral without God. They might be able to imitate morality, but they cannot truly do morality in its purest form. Only God alone is good. We just surrender to God and we allow Him to work through us. Remember, the 24 elders cast their crowns down before Jesus.
     
  12. Daniel9v9

    Daniel9v9

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    Scriptures talk about morality - or a better word, I think, is righteousness - in two senses.

    There is a horizontal righteousness which is relative. That is, one man can be more righteous, upright or blamless relative to another. For example, there is a way we can consider a shoplifter more upright than a murderer.

    And there is a vertical righteousness which is absolute. That is, before God, no one is righteous. Not even one. To use the same example above, the shoplifter and the murder both alike fall short of the glory of God - both are and do evil.

    So, before man (coram mundo), we can have the appearance of righteousness, which for the Christian is Sanctification, or becoming Christ-like, by the fruit of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23). But before God (coram deo), we are entirely unrighteous, because all sin at its heart is the same - it's rebellion, rejection and contempt for God and His Word, will and design. But for the Christian, we are clothed in Christ and His righteousness, as we believe in the person and works of our Lord Jesus Christ - this is Justification - God declares us righteous (Romans 4:5).

    So, if we put all of this together, we first get (1) there is no such thing as being truly "moral" before God, and (2) especially for the unbelievers, because they don't even agree on what morality looks like - on what good is - for they have rejected God who is good and the source of all that is good, they're only left with subjective and relative morality. Only in their own eyes or by popular opinion can they be understood as moral.
     
  13. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    John said this about sin.

    1Jn 3:4
    Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
     
  14. Daniel9v9

    Daniel9v9

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    Yep. The Law is God's Word. So when we break the Law, we rebel against and hate God. The point I was making is this: That if we break one command, we break the whole Law - James 2:10 This is why no one is righteous before God. As it's written, no one is righteous before God, not even one. Romans 3:10-12
     
  15. lsume

    lsume Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Please consider the following;
    In general, the quick answer would be no. I’m sure you didn’t intend for the question to be facetious. However, using the word “moral” in place of righteousness could create problems and since God The Father can fix problems like no other, so go all problems
    I’m curious as to your thoughts and beliefs as they relate to Christ.
     
  16. S.O.J.I.A.

    S.O.J.I.A. Dynamic UNO

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    and if someone violated that moral standard they would have no basis to say that they were wrong or that their moral standard is right.
     
  17. Daniel Martinovich

    Daniel Martinovich Friend Supporter

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    When the Bible says. “The saints shall judge the world.” That is precisely what that means. They will set the standard of what will and will not be judged as moral.
    And, they have been.
     
  18. ABCthings

    ABCthings Light

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    no, just no.
     
  19. nonaeroterraqueous

    nonaeroterraqueous Nonexistent Member

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    No, a certain measure of morality can exist even among those who think they do not believe in God, but morality, itself, is a nonsense concept if God does not exist. People can argue right and wrong all day, but if God does not exist then there is no right and wrong, but only convention.
     
  20. ABCthings

    ABCthings Light

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    Being moral by one own standard. Cheap.
     
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