Moral Progress As Evidence of Faith

BubbaJack

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What do Lutherans say about how a person (Christian) lives his or her life? I watched a video at Worldview Everlasting that basically said personal victory over sin is not a sign of faith, and not having it is not a sign of unfaith. In other words, moral progress or lack of is not a sign of whether a person is a true Christian or not. Do you agree? What if a person commits the same sins all day, everyday?
 

stuart lawrence

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What do Lutherans say about how a person (Christian) lives his or her life? I watched a video at Worldview Everlasting that basically said personal victory over sin is not a sign of faith, and not having it is not a sign of unfaith. In other words, moral progress or lack of is not a sign of whether a person is a true Christian or not. Do you agree? What if a person commits the same sins all day, everyday?
Grace is a hard thing to correctly see.
It is true that if you follow the truth of the Gospel message you will grow to live a more holy/ moral life.
However, if you say, I cannot be a true Christian unless I live a moral life, you are then basing your Christianity on your personal goodness, not faith in Christ. You then err from the gospel message.
 
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FireDragon76

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What do Lutherans say about how a person (Christian) lives his or her life? I watched a video at Worldview Everlasting that basically said personal victory over sin is not a sign of faith, and not having it is not a sign of unfaith. In other words, moral progress or lack of is not a sign of whether a person is a true Christian or not. Do you agree? What if a person commits the same sins all day, everyday?

If we are speaking of people in general, then yes. It's always dangerous to presume that somebody else isn't a Christian just because they are doing things that don't measure up to our own estimation of Christian living.

I do think there is progress in the Christian life, and its a mistake to think this is absent in Lutheranism altogether (Pastor Jordan Cooper is a good source for discussion about this theme, particular as it pertains to a Lutheran understanding of theosis. This is also something my own pastor preaches about). But the way many Christian groups discern this moral progress is misguided. Honestly, this sort of thing is something you should discuss with a pastor or a spiritual friend who doesn't have an agenda but your own well-being. Not some kind of accountability partner or pastor that views you as a feather in his cap.

I talk to my pastor a few times a month. It's just something we do. Mostly because I am getting over a toxic experience I had in the Orthodox church. My conversion to Lutheranism has been slow, and full of doubt. So we have been just two friends talking to each other, sometimes not even about particularly religious issues. Sometimes I will have things that are troubling me spiritually, and we talk about that too, and he always has good stuff to say that cuts through the issue. That kind of stuff is important to do because it builds up an authentic relationship. But a priest, pastor, or "accountability partner" that doesn't really know you beyond a perfunctory relationship that's laid down in some sort of formal fashion (ripe for legalism), why should you trust their advice on whether or not you are living a Christian life? That's a huge gamble with your mental health and sense of self-worth. And it's not the way Jesus did things.
 
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