Moral Law of God written on heart vs Ceremonial law ended at the cross

[BobRyan]

WHAT is the ceremonial law - and how is it contrasted to the moral law of God?

===================================================
Paul points out that circumcision is a good example of it -- in 1 Cor 7:19 and in that text he says the "commandments of God" are by contrast to it.

1 Cor 7:19
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

And we note with interest Paul's statement in Eph 6:1-2 where he reminds us that the fifth commandment is the "first commandment with a promise" in that still-valld set of TEN commandments. A point that D.L. Moody and the Baptist Confession of Faith also affirm.

No wonder Paul quotes from the same TEN in Rom 13 after the cross as does Christ in Matt 19 before the Cross.

Rom 13
8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. (not "abolished")
9 For this,
“You shall not commit adultery,
You shall not murder,
You shall not steal,
You shall not covet,”
and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying,
“You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

The same after the cross as before the cross in Matt 19

From the TEN where "the first commandment with a promise" is still the 5th commandment. Eph 6:1-2 according to Paul

Matt 19
if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Same list unchanged before and after the cross

How nice that even the Baptist Confession of Faith and the Westminster Confession of Faith (section19 in each of them) - admit to this same detail about all TEN commandments in the moral law of God written on the heart -- all the while the ceremonial law ends at the cross.

As for animal sacrifice - we have Hebrews 10

4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. 5 Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,
“Sacrifice and offering You have not desired,
But a body You have prepared for Me;
6 In whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have taken no pleasure.
7 “Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come
(In the scroll of the book it is written of Me)
To do Your will, O God.’”
8 After saying above, “Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have not desired, nor have You taken pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the Law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time onward until His enemies be made a footstool for His feet. 14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

 

[Inosesosis]

Hello everyone on the forum

 

[BobRyan]

Hello everyone on the forum

Hi and welcome!

 

[Danthemailman]

Sabbatismos Ministries: Finding Our Rest in Christ - New Covenant Sabbath Rest
Sabbatismos Ministries: Finding Our Rest in Christ - Sign of the Mosaic Covenant

 

[BobRyan]

Christ's commandments according to Hebrews 8:6-11 are the ones given at Sinai.

Where as Paul says -- the fifth commandment "is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2

 

[klutedavid]

WHAT is the ceremonial law - and how is it contrasted to the moral law of God?

===================================================
Paul points out that circumcision is a good example of it -- in 1 Cor 7:19 and in that text he says the "commandments of God" are by contrast to it.

19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

And we note with interest Paul's statement in Eph 6:1-2 where he reminds us that the fifth commandment is the "first commandment with a promise" in that still-valld set of TEN commandments. A point that D.L. Moody and the Baptist Confession of Faith also affirm.

No wonder Paul quotes from the same TEN in Rom 13 after the cross as does Christ in Matt 19 before the Cross.

Rom 13
8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. (not "abolished")
9 For this,
“You shall not commit adultery,
You shall not murder,
You shall not steal,
You shall not covet,”
and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying,
“You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

The same after the cross as before the cross in Matt 19

From the TEN where "the first commandment with a promise" is still the 5th commandment. Eph 6:1-2 according to Paul

Matt 19
if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Same list unchanged before and after the cross

How nice that even the Baptist Confession of Faith and the Westminster Confession of Faith (section19 in each of them) - admit to this same detail about all TEN commandments in the moral law of God written on the heart -- all the while the ceremonial law ends at the cross.

As for animal sacrifice - we have Hebrews 10

4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. 5 Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,
“Sacrifice and offering You have not desired,
But a body You have prepared for Me;
6 In whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have taken no pleasure.
7 “Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come
(In the scroll of the book it is written of Me)
To do Your will, O God.’”
8 After saying above, “Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have not desired, nor have You taken pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the Law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time onward until His enemies be made a footstool for His feet. 14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

Where in the scripture is any law described as ceremonial?

You may be following a tradition established by some men in some era of earlier Christianity. In calling a law or laws, ceremonial law is disturbing.

 

[klutedavid]

Christ's commandments according to Hebrews 8:6-11 are the ones given at Sinai.

Where as Paul says -- the fifth commandment "is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2

Where in Hebrews chapter 8 does it say 'Christ's commandments'?

I think that Hebrews 8 is talking about the old and the new covenants and no mention of the word 'commandments'. There is a mention of 'laws' in verse ten but no mention of Christ's commandments.

We have some of Christ's commandments but Jeremiah would never had heard these commandments that Jesus or the apostles would have mentioned.

 

[klutedavid]

Christ's commandments according to Hebrews 8:6-11 are the ones given at Sinai.

Where as Paul says -- the fifth commandment "is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2

These partial quotations by you have an ulterior motive and you must not cherry pick verses, in order to establish a specific interpretation of the scripture.

Ephesians 6:1
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.

That is what Paul told the children at Ephesus.

The quotation from the law in the second line only supports the initial command.

 

[BobRyan]

Where in the scripture is any law described as ceremonial?
You may be following a tradition established by some men

I already gave the reference Hebrews 8:6-11 I am happy to read it for you if you think that is needed.

Turns out -- Hebrews 8 is not "some tradition established by some men".

we call it "the Word of God"

4 Now if He (Jesus) were on earth, He (Jesus) would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; 5 who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “See,” He (Jesus) says, “that you make all things according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain.” 6 But now He (Jesus) has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He (Jesus) is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He (Jesus) says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I (Jesus) will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I (Jesus) made with their fathers
On the day when I (Jesus) took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My (Jesus') covenant,
And I (Jesus) did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I (Jesus) will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I (Jesus) will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I (Jesus) will be their God,
And they shall be My people.
11 “And they shall not teach everyone his fellow citizen,
And everyone his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’
For all will know Me,
From the least to the greatest of them.
12 “For I will be merciful to their iniquities,
And I will remember their sins no more.”


1 Cor 10
4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

1 Peter 1
10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.

 

[BobRyan]

I quote Eph 6:2
"Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise),"

"First commandment" where? --- answer: first commandment in the TEN Commandments.

I value scripture for what it is -- "the Word of God"

These partial quotations by you have an ulterior motive and you must not cherry pick verses, in order to establish a specific interpretation of the scripture.

Ephesians 6:1
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.
That is what Paul told the children at Ephesus.

Thanks for not quoting Eph 6:2 - in your response to it...and thus making my point regarding the POV that opposes that verse.

 

[BobRyan]

When you actually value scripture as the "Word of God" -- you tend to read it.

 

[BobRyan]

Paul points out that circumcision is a good example of it -- in 1 Cor 7:19 and in that text he says the "commandments of God" are by contrast to it.

1 Cor 7:19
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

And we note with interest Paul's statement in Eph 6:1-2 where he reminds us that the fifth commandment is the "first commandment with a promise" in that still-valld set of TEN commandments. A point that D.L. Moody and the Baptist Confession of Faith also affirm.

Where in the scripture is any law described as ceremonial?

Whether or not you value scripture as the "Word of God" -- you should at least read the post- you respond to.

Even the Baptist Confession of Faith section 19 "notices" 1 Cor 7:19

 

[klutedavid]

When you actually value scripture as the "Word of God" -- you tend to read it.

You may be reading an interpretation of the scripture, rather than, what the scripture actually says.

 

[klutedavid]

Paul points out that circumcision is a good example of it -- in 1 Cor 7:19 and in that text he says the "commandments of God" are by contrast to it.

1 Cor 7:19
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

And we note with interest Paul's statement in Eph 6:1-2 where he reminds us that the fifth commandment is the "first commandment with a promise" in that still-valld set of TEN commandments. A point that D.L. Moody and the Baptist Confession of Faith also affirm.

I disregard the tradition of men such as Moody and the Baptists. I think you would be well advised not to listen to any historical Christian church and work it out yourself.

The scripture is right in front of you, just read it yourself.

Whether or not you value scripture as the "Word of God" -- you should at least read the post- you respond to.

Even the Baptist Confession of Faith section 19 "notices" 1 Cor 7:19

The tradition of men does not support your claim.

 

[klutedavid]

Paul points out that circumcision is a good example of it -- in 1 Cor 7:19 and in that text he says the "commandments of God" are by contrast to it.

1 Cor 7:19
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

And we note with interest Paul's statement in Eph 6:1-2 where he reminds us that the fifth commandment is the "first commandment with a promise" in that still-valld set of TEN commandments. A point that D.L. Moody and the Baptist Confession of Faith also affirm.



Whether or not you value scripture as the "Word of God" -- you should at least read the post- you respond to.

Even the Baptist Confession of Faith section 19 "notices" 1 Cor 7:19

Still no answer in regards to the slightest mention of ceremonial law in the scripture.

Let's assume that circumcision is a ceremonial law and we no longer need to be circumcised.
What about the rest of the six hundred laws.

You can't just bury your head in the sand.

Make a claim about ceremonial law and then fully support that claim. Not mention a single law and assume it is ceremonial law when it may not be and then think to yourself. Well I just demonstrated what a ceremonial law is.

 

[BobRyan]

Paul points out that circumcision is a good example of it -- in 1 Cor 7:19 and in that text he says the "commandments of God" are by contrast to it.

1 Cor 7:19
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

And we note with interest Paul's statement in Eph 6:1-2 where he reminds us that the fifth commandment is the "first commandment with a promise" in that still-valld set of TEN commandments. A point that D.L. Moody and the Baptist Confession of Faith also affirm.

Where in the scripture is any law described as ceremonial?

Whether or not you value scripture as the "Word of God" -- you should at least read the post- you respond to.

Even the Baptist Confession of Faith section 19 "notices" 1 Cor 7:19

Still no answer in regards to the slightest mention of ceremonial law in the scripture.

Let's assume that circumcision is a ceremonial law

ahhh.. so then you are willing to entertain "the obvious"... nice to see that.

 

[BobRyan]

1 Cor 7:19
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

I disregard the tradition of men such as Moody and the Baptists.

And the bible?

And the Westminster Confession of Faith sectn 19?

Notice how you start to address "the obvious" here?

klutedavid said: ↑
Let's assume that circumcision is a ceremonial law

Isn't that where you then ask about the 1050 commands in the NT?

 

[klutedavid]

1 Cor 7:19
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

I have told you before not to cherry pick verses.

If you do that you will confuse and distort the scripture. Here quoted below is more of the context to the verse you quoted.

1 Corinthians 7:19-20
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God. Each man must remain in that condition in which he was called.

Paul is giving the commandments to the church in Corinth and Paul want's the Corinthians, to remain exactly as they were when they were called.

Hence, the whole point of Paul's argument about circumcision is that they remain as they were when called. To undergo circumcision and obey the law is an absolute change to the condition in which they were called.

Somehow you completely missed the point Paul was making. That happens because your only reading half the text as usual, your seeing what you want to see, and not what is written.

That is a commandment,

Each man must remain in that condition in which he was called.

If you reject Christ's commandment you are rejecting His words.

And the bible?

I told you before if you accept the new testament canon you must accept the early church letters. As the new testament canon is drawn from these historical Christian letters.

And the Westminster Confession of Faith sectn 19?

Tradition of men.

Notice how you start to address "the obvious" here?

Correct at last Bob, the obvious is your interpretation is erroneous and always has the context missing in your quotes.

Isn't that where you then ask about the 1050 commands in the NT?

Never counted them and I have no idea how many there are.

 

[Danthemailman]

Where in the scripture is any law described as ceremonial?

You may be following a tradition established by some men in some era of earlier Christianity. In calling a law or laws, ceremonial law is disturbing.

From what I have been seeing all along, the ultimate goal behind the scripture twisting and deceptive doctrines of the SDA church is to promote salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works" (Galatians 1:6-9) which explains their absolute obsession with the 10 commandments under the Mosaic law (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment).

 

[BobRyan]

I quote Eph 6:2
"Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise),"

"First commandment" where? --- answer: first commandment in the TEN Commandments.

I value scripture for what it is -- "the Word of God"

These partial quotations by you have an ulterior motive and you must not cherry pick verses, in order to establish a specific interpretation of the scripture.

Ephesians 6:1
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.
That is what Paul told the children at Ephesus.

Thanks for not quoting Eph 6:2 - in your response to it...and thus making my point regarding the POV that opposes that verse.

I have told you before not to cherry pick verses.

This is the part where you then take your own advice instead of falsely accusing others.

you knew that ... right?

Choose to have a serious conversation please.