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Money for the Ministry

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by The Simple Plan, Dec 13, 2002.

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  1. The Simple Plan

    The Simple Plan Sojourner

    356
    +3
    Does the Bible in the NT support a stipendary (paid) pastoral ministry ?

    Do you support the giving of donations to ministries?


    How do you think ministries should account for the money they receive?


    How do you view ministries which charge fees for prayer cloths, holy oil (?), demon deliverance, preaching ?


    Just some thoughts please
    Dave :clap:
     
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  2. hugoguttman

    hugoguttman Member

    202
    +1
    Non-Denom
    I think all your answers are given to you by reading the Bible. Even when you dont understand some verse... the Holy Spirit comes to clarify your thoughts and give you ans answer. How many tames we read a verse and does not tell us too much? And when we are in tribulation or trial... that same verse tell us that our Father is allways with us and will never let us stranded?
    If you want an aswer to your questions, I dare to reccomend you to read 1 Corinthians 9:6-17.

    the simpleplan wrote:
    Do you support the giving of donations to ministries?
    Have you ever heard about Diezmo? It is not an obligation, but sure it is a promise from our father. See Malachi 3:8-10

    the simpleplan wrote:
    How do you think ministries should account for the money they receive?
    Well it is a matter of faith. You give donations. Dont look on what they do with your money. Dont give too much on that.

    The simple plan wrote:
    How do you view ministries which charge fees for prayer cloths, holy oil (?), demon deliverance, preaching ?
    I dont agree with that. Christian people must not charge for praying for someone. We are not catholic priest wich do that. Cara Gratia are the words.
    God bless you Dave.
    Hugo.
     
  3. The Simple Plan

    The Simple Plan Sojourner

    356
    +3
    Does the Bible in the NT support a stipendary (paid) pastoral ministry ?
    I ask this because I have met various Quakers,etc who suggest that the NT and the early church never supported this.

    How do you think ministries should account for the money they receive?
    We have had some issues within our churches about giving, and I believe that all churches/ministries should be very open and transparent to all who would want to investigate their accounts

    How do you view ministries which charge fees for prayer cloths, holy oil (?), demon deliverance, preaching ?
    I think the polite term for this is "daylight robbery" but I do not want to sound like a myopic bigot and wondered what other people's thought's on this were.

    I am but a pilgrim

    Dave
     
  4. sklippstein

    sklippstein Well-Known Member

    +1
    Catholic
    OOOH i don't agree with that at all.  Catholic priest do not charge to pray with anyone.  They do not charge for holy water either....nor a prayer cloth.  I am in agreement that these should not be something a Church or ministry should charge for.  To pray with another is something we as Christians are to do......

     
     
  5. hugoguttman

    hugoguttman Member

    202
    +1
    Non-Denom
    Well, I preffer not argue on this subject.  I dont want to have judgement on my mouth.

    Pax, dear friends.

    Hugo.
     
  6. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

    +21
    Non-Denom
    Those who preach the Gospel full time have a right to take an offering, they can choose to exercise this right or not.

    1Co 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?.......
    14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

    1Ti 5:18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.


    donations to ministries?

    why not? if we can donate to dogs in the SPCA, why do we hold back on work to further God's kingdom??

    charge money prayer cloths, annoiting oil?

    depends on what you mean. if you can pay for a Hillsong CD with annointed music in it, why cant you pay for the cloth or the oil. It takes money to make these things - manufacturing cost, packaging, shipping etc. if that's what i'm paying for its perfectly logical. but its ridiculous to charge a fee after you pray for the sick.
     
  7. sklippstein

    sklippstein Well-Known Member

    +1
    Catholic
     

    I may have misunderstood the original question.  I was under the assumption we were discussing ministeries/churches charging for these services and/or prayer items.  Donating for these services is an entirely different issue.  If GOD places on ur heart to donate.....then by all means do so!  But to actually charge for these services and/or prayer items is wrong.
     
  8. Outspoken

    Outspoken Standing in the Gap

    +15
    Christian
    "Does the Bible in the NT support a stipendary (paid) pastoral ministry ?
    "

    Well there is a specific section in the NT Paul talked about this. its the passage in 1 Cor 9. Here is a small part of it..

    "Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat of its grapes? Who tends a flock and does not drink of the milk?"

    You can also see this parelled in the OT when God took about 10% of pretty much everything and gave it to the Levites who worked in the temple. They got some of the towns, money, etc...


    "How do you think ministries should account for the money they receive?"

    Very open and transparent to the people of that congragation.

    "How do you view ministries which charge fees for prayer cloths, holy oil (?), demon deliverance, preaching ?
    "

    Hmm..now this is something different. I don't think they should charge, for I don't see that in scripture, should the church as a whole pay for them to live and go out and do these things? Yup.
     
  9. RevKidd

    RevKidd Simple Mans Theologian

    +63
    Pentecostal
    Married
    US-Republican
    Unfortunately I cannot answer this with sound biblical scripture.  But, for a minister or pastor, who is doing this full time, how else are they to live in today's society.  Unfortunately the state of our government does not allow Pastors or ministers to walk in a store and walk out with whatever he wants without paying for it.

    Yes I do.  However, you should give first to your local congregation and then if you feel that you would like to give to another ministry do that second.  But first, support your local church that you hold membership to.

    There needs to be a system of accountability in the church.  Example:  I am on the council of our church and every month we are mailed a copy of all incoming and out going financial information.  Every 3 months we have meeting to go over any questions regarding the statement.  Any costs greater than 1000 dollars that does not pertain to the cost of bills, maintenance, etc., goes before the council. 


    Our Pastor, never touches any money that comes into the church other than his paycheck.  He has say in where it is spent along with the council.  This protects him from any accusations concerning where money is spent.  Our church belongs to an international denomination that keeps churches and pastors within biblical guidlines.  It is a great system of accountability that protects the church and pastor.
     


      If you are referring to people like Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyers, Robert Tilton, TBN cronies, etc,. I say run away from them as fast as possible.  Anyone that limits Gods power to a hanky or a vile of oil should be taken out and horse whipped into submission and repentance.  :mad:



    :( :scratch:
     
  10. Blindfaith

    Blindfaith God's Tornado

    +76
    Non-Denom
    At our church, there is a board of elders which the congregation has voted in.  The Sr. Pastor goes over the budget with the elders, so the Sr. Pastor alone doesn't decide what money goes where.

    The Pastor speaks to the congregation about it, and outlines where the givings are going; missions, staff salaries, children's ministry, womens/mens ministry, scholarships for those who can't afford the extra's, etc......Of course there's a weekly update of givings compared to donations on the back of the bulletin.

    I don't see how a Pastor/Minister would get paid unless the congregation paid through their tithings.  The government sure isn't going to pay them :).

    Paying for a prayer is wrong.  Paying for the things that different denominations use for that prayer ~ no biggie to me.  What about the wafers/grape juice/wine for communion?  Who's going to pay for that if the parishioners don't?  It's gotta come from somewhere, because I'll be darned if I can find a money tree. ;)
     
  11. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +62
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    "Unfortunately I cannot answer this with sound biblical scripture."

    Lev, you can. Check 1st Corinthians chapter 9.
     
  12. The Simple Plan

    The Simple Plan Sojourner

    356
    +3
    Thank you for your answers. I asked them for purely personal (not selfish :rolleyes: ) reasons.

    As a youthworker for 12 years now I am thinking of going into ministry full time. I have prayed and thought about tape ministries, books and speaking for the ministry, as I have a a wife and two children to support. I have a business management background and could do consulting to suppliment my ministry but I can't help feeling that, especially with the youth work side of my ministry, that I would not be able to do have the time for that side.

    Also as for speaking in churches I am so reluctant to charge a fee and prefer to charge for travelling/subsistence expenses and ask for a freewill offering. There are some churches who have offered me over £2000($3500) to speak to youth but I feel so weird doing that.  And for the donations to my ministry, I would like to provide all donors with access to view my yearly accounts. What do you think?

    As for the holy oil/prayer cloths, etc such stuff frightens me as there is no mandate for such things in the bible being sold wholesale --- I tend to run a mile!!! Eeeewwww :eek: 

    God is my Strength
    Dave:clap: 
     
  13. MissytheButterfly

    MissytheButterfly Back and Better than EVER!

    +5
    I think we have an obligation to help out ministers.. but do I think we should be paying for their whole living expenses ? NO! They should work like everyone else. But they are doing us a service and they should be given payment to help with their families and so on. Now as far as carrying out regular duties such as counseling, prayer, etc NO! I don't think he should get extra. If he is indeed called by God, he would do it for free. His payment will be from God.

    All the money that is received should be noted and accounted for. The people should have some say in where the money goes and should get to know where it went if they ask.

    I think it's a good thing when people give donations to the ministry because a lot of things can't get done without that monetary help..like keeping the general church up and running, helping out widows and the poor, etc..things the bible does command the people to help out with...

    Missy
     
  14. The Simple Plan

    The Simple Plan Sojourner

    356
    +3
    Thank you for your thoughts Missy. Most ministers/pastors I know do not earn more than £12000 ($18000), although church helps them with travelling expenses. I don't know if I could support my family on that!!

    I believe that God will show me how to balance my secular skills with my ministry time.


    God bless
    Dave:clap:
     
  15. Outspoken

    Outspoken Standing in the Gap

    +15
    Christian
    "I think we have an obligation to help out ministers.. but do I think we should be paying for their whole living expenses ? NO! They should work like everyone else."

    Exactly and this is some of my reasoning behind as to why it should be a salary postion, not a hourly thing.
     
  16. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

    +1,390
    United States
    Charismatic
    Single
    Oh my gosh!!!!! I'm actually going to agree with outspoken on an issue.  :D :angel:

    Ministers do a lot of work that the average person does not see.  Ministry is work.  They don't only do their stuff on Sun morn and eve and Wed nights.  People are calling their homes all hours of the day. It is near to impossible for a full time minister to spend time with God, work on the side, plus give all the attention needed to their family.

    We should treat them as well as we would want to be treated if it were us.  We should support them financially and spiritually.

    Quaffer 

     
     
  17. Blindfaith

    Blindfaith God's Tornado

    +76
    Non-Denom
    Quaffar!!  Run and get your calendar and mark this day down ~ I just agreed with your last post!!

    Hall-le-lu-lia!!  This is a happy day indeed :D ;) :wave:
     
  18. hugoguttman

    hugoguttman Member

    202
    +1
    Non-Denom
    Quaffer wrote:
    I agree. I think the same as you.
    Now, I would like to ask you people a question:
    How do we see a Pastor labor?
    As service? Just like any other profession?
    Let me tell you that being a pastor is not easy. First, because somebody, as pastor have to show good testimony and biblical study, that most of the time we can not as normal people(having our own jobs), even when we are christians. If any man that claims to be pastor, gives to me good testimony... Good for him and hard work for him too. If you have any doubt on this... just ask some pator´s wife how much time he spends with his family... Pastoring is just like any other profession like any engineer who is making a bridge... but working for us...
    In my oppinion, supporting ministry is a matter of faith. I think this because as Corinthians 9 says they are called by God to serve Him. We must support them and in my PERSONAL opinion, not asking for accounts. Does someone ask for your accounts?
    Malachi 3:10 says
    Some people are called by God to provide spiritual food in His house...
    What happens if I see this month account and I dont agree with some money handling?...I dont agree with this spending... Am I not judging? That´s why I consider giving money for ministry a matter of faith... while God gives to me... I must support ministry not seeing what is going to happen with the money.
    Pax.
    Hugo.
    PD. I´m not a pastor.
     
  19. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

    +1,390
    United States
    Charismatic
    Single
    Oh, say it aint the first time blindfaith  :pray:

    Just marked the calender  :D
     
  20. sklippstein

    sklippstein Well-Known Member

    +1
    Catholic
    If they have offered u a set rate.......why not accept it?  Consider this as their offering for ur time to come and talk to them.  AND yes I think it's a great idea to have open access to view ur yearly accounts....no room for discretionary rumors to pop up.
     
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