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Mohammad in the bible

Discussion in 'Christianity and World Religion' started by habibii zahra, Mar 10, 2017.

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  1. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member

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    I know what the NT says, but where is it found in the OT?
     
  2. Cearbhall

    Cearbhall Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't seem very different to me than Christians using the Torah. Jewish people would say that you're using it incorrectly to support your theory that Jesus was the foretold Messiah.
     
  3. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member

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    It didn't possible come from the 70 Elders at the base of Mount Sinai, and passed on orally? You know they received revelation directly from GOD too right?
     
  4. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member

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    Why do you quote people who never met Jesus pbuh? Why don't you study the life of his family, people like James pbuh who remained in Jerusalem and dedicated his life to the Torah, prayer and fasting. He practically lived in the Temple having been taught directly by his brother.

    James says, Paul was a liar and warned people to stay away from the wolf who entered the early Church.
     
  5. Robban

    Robban ----------- Supporter

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    Moses recieved the Torah from Sinai and gave it over to Joshua.
    Joshua gave it over to the elders,
    The elders gave it over to the prophets,
    and the prophets gave it over to the men of the great assembly.

    They would say three things:
    Be cautious in judgement.
    Establish many pupils.
    Make a safety fence around the Torah.

    (Ethics of the fathers 1:1)
     
  6. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for explaining. I knew there was some connection to the elders from something I read in Exodus years ago.
    Rabbi Tovia Singer explained the oral explanation of the Torah is recorded in opinions held in the Talmud, though it was compiled later, these opinions take precedence over the written Torah.

    Always interesting to learn and makes a nice change from people attacking each others faiths. I find Jewish people have a much more laid back approach to religion. As Rabbi Tovia Singer says, yes there may be truth in other prophets and religions, but a Jew is hard wired to the Torah.
     
  7. 4x4toy

    4x4toy Newbie Supporter

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    I do not believe the Talmud is in any way inspired of God ..
     
  8. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member

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    You're a non Jew, so it's neither here nor there. There might be references that Muslims and Christians take issue with, but it also contains a record of their legal rulings, handed down from Moses pbuh and subsequent Scholars.
     
  9. 4x4toy

    4x4toy Newbie Supporter

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    Romans 11:17-18
     
  10. Robban

    Robban ----------- Supporter

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    The Talmuds explain the written, the oral Torah was never meant to be written down,
    but it was, the Sages feared it would be forgotten.
    As is written it shall be passed down generation to generation.

    There is a dispute between the Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmuds.

    The method of the Babylonian Talmud;


    "He has set me in dark places."
    refers to the Babylonian Talmud,
    when you begin to learn it you`re in a state of darkness you must deliberate,
    ask questions, sort things out.....until you find the true meaning.
    That is the Babylonian Talmud.

    The Jerusalem Talmud, however, has no "darkness",
    you come to the correct understanding right from the start.

    The Jerusalem Talmud is like a well lit room,
    the Babylonian Talmud is like an unlit room.

    Jerusalem Talmud, which with little effort could lead one to grasp the concept.
     
  11. dougangel

    dougangel Regular Supporter

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    Out of all the bible I find this quite obscure. The desert people are traveling to different area's in the gulf region and it's speaking of Muhumand who died 8 June 632 AD.

    Jesus and many scriptures claim Jesus to be God in human form.

    “I and the Father are one.” 31 The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?” 33 The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” John 10:30-33 NASB

    “Jesus heard that they had put him out; and finding him, He said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?” 36 He answered and said, “And who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?” 37 Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you.” 38 And he said, “Lord, I believe.” And he worshiped Him.” John 9:35-38 NASB

    “Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'” John 8:58 NASB

    “Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” John 20:28 NASB

    “And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.” John 1:14 NASB

    This is totally different truth claim to what Muhummad claimed about Jesus. So in fact he is saying Jesus lied about himself. For me personally Jesus lived his life more authentically and backed up his words with his life more than Muhummad.
    Muslins and Christians have different truth claims.

    God bless
     
  12. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member

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    You mean the Gospel of John and letters of Paul. Sorry but even they don't make clear mention of a mangod...

    One in purpose, and we know this because,

    "That all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me." John 17:21

    Jesus prayed to his father (Luke 23:34) which would not make sense if they were one person. Jesus said the Father alone is God (John 17:3) and quoted the Shema (Mark 12:29)

    As for stoning him for claiming divinity, the Jews knew he wasn't and were looking for excuses:

    Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are "gods"'? John 10:34

    Nice story, only problem being in the oldest Manuscript it says, "Lord, I believe." <<<Nothing more

    We were all before Abraham, all souls existed before GOD gave permission for us to made flesh. Also saying 'I am' doesn't make anyone Divine:

    “I am” is said by Paul in Acts 26:29. Do we conclude Paul too is God?

    Ego eimi [“I am”] does not identify Jesus with God, but it does draw attention to him in the strongest possible terms. “I am the one—the one you must look at, and listen to, if you would know God.” [1]

    The phrase “I am” occurs many other times in the New Testament, and is often translated as “I am he” or some equivalent (“I am he”—Mark 13:6; Luke 21:8; John 13:19; 18:5, 6 and 8. “It is I”—Matt. 14:27; Mark 6:50; John 6:20. “I am the one I claim to be”—John 8:24 and 28.). It is obvious that these translations are quite correct, and it is interesting that the phrase is translated as “I am” only in John 8:58. If the phrase in John 8:58 were translated “I am he” or “I am the one,” like all the others, it would be easier to see that Christ was speaking of himself as the Messiah of God

    Yes, you guessed it more bad news, and in this case the verse in the oldest Manuscript does not say "...and my God"

    In the KJV it reads,
    14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. <<<Notice the brackets. 'Only begotten' should be discounted.

    Now the verse is agreeable, as stated earlier we were all before Abraham pbuh and when GOD commanded us to be, (using his 'Word) We indeed all came into being. Jesus pbuh differed in that no man was involved and Angel Gabriel personally delivered his soul unto Mary, may God be pleased with her.

    You could marvel at Jesus pbuh and his miraculous birth, but do remember Adam pbuh was born without 'any' parents.

    If you strip away the falsehood and the words put into the mouth of Jesus pbuh, then Muhammad pbuh was correct and Jesus pbuh was another Great Prophet sent to the Jews preaching pure Monotheism.

    May God bless and guide you.
     
  13. 4x4toy

    4x4toy Newbie Supporter

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    I thought the Talmud was a collection of opinions of Jewish Rabbis not prophets .. The Talmud is where the Idea that Abraham was married to his half sister and that the nephillem were offspring of fallen angels and daughters of men from , rediculous and uninspired ..
     
  14. danny ski

    danny ski Newbie

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    Ridiculous and uninspired as, say, a god Jesus being tempted by a fallen angel he created? And being offered his own creation as a reward? Yeah, that makes sense(and it's not even an attempt at discourse as in the Talmud. It's considered to be the "truth").
     
  15. dougangel

    dougangel Regular Supporter

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    6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

    Christ is claiming deity here. You can not know God without Jesus. This is an exclusive truth claim. He also said to those Israelite's if you knew God you would of seen me.

    John 4:24

    God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

    Matthew 16:27

    For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.


    Well it's the trinity isn't it ? Father Son Holy spirit. Jesus was God in human form.

    You misusing the context of that.

    Yes I did guess you are trying to get rid of evidence of the deity of Christ because it goes against what muhammad said about Christ.
    Those quotes where your removing words. You have to give me proof that that is so.

    God bless
     
  16. dougangel

    dougangel Regular Supporter

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    Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as “O God,” indicating that Jesus is indeed God.

    In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did. There are many other passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus’ deity.

    The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that, if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.
    God bless
     
  17. 4x4toy

    4x4toy Newbie Supporter

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    Explain ..
     
  18. habibii zahra

    habibii zahra Well-Known Member

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    why it is hard to understand??
    god is god..jesus is the spirit of god...if this is the teaching of prophet Mohammad is it wrong or right??
     
  19. football5680

    football5680 Well-Known Member

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    It would depend on what the definition of "Spirit of God" means to Muslims. Regardless, we already know Muhammad taught about Jesus and it is incompatible.
     
  20. Robban

    Robban ----------- Supporter

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    OK.
     
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