modesty and culture.

[HighCherub]

No, it does not make her responsible. The man is responsible for his actions.

Being a 'stumbling block' is spoken of in high detail within the scriptures- it's the sole reason dressing modestly exists in Abrahamic culture.

The problem is that, because of today's liberal agendas, those as yourself feel compelled to simply outright make women blameless. And because of that, any biblical teaching regarding their accountability is dismissed.

In fact, that's pretty much what feminism is today- the art of making women accountable for nothing.

 

[Catherineanne]

A woman showing everything but her privates in a bathing suit to me makes her responsible if men lust after her, and there are several reasons why I believe so.

I am sorry to hear that; kindly keep your 'several reasons' to yourself. They are all humbug, every one.

I will pray for you. Primarily that you stop visualising women half naked and then thinking about lust. See my post above re cold showers.

 

[Catherineanne]

Being a 'stumbling block' is spoken of in high detail within the scriptures- it's the sole reason dressing modestly exists in Abrahamic culture.

The problem is that, because of today's liberal agendas, those as yourself feel compelled to simply outright make women blameless. And because of that, any biblical teaching regarding their accountability is dismissed.

In fact, that's pretty much what feminism is today- the art of making women accountable for nothing.

If a man lusts after a woman she is indeed blameless; nobody is forcing them to look. It does't take much Googling to discover that a woman can cover herself in black from head to toe and still be accused of causing men to sin.

First incident of sin in the Bible and what happens? The man blames the woman and says 'She made me do it!'

It really is time for men to embrace personal responsibility.

 

[HighCherub]

If a man lusts after a woman she is indeed blameless; nobody is forcing them to look. It does't take much Googling to discover that a woman can cover herself in black from head to toe and still be accused of causing men to sin.

First incident of sin in the Bible and what happens? The man blames the woman and says 'She made me do it!'

It really is time for men to embrace personal responsibility.

The first incident of sin is a woman deceiving a man- the Bible holds Adam accountable for his sin, but also outright purges Eve of authority for hers because of it.

Men are more brazen and physical than women- they tend to be more practical along such lines, also having more body mass and therefore retaining more heat.
Women dress, frankly, for the purpose of being looked at. They wear makeup and dress in uncomfortable attire pretty much perpetually.

The reality of women even attempting to state otherwise to men pretty much speaks for itself; really echoes back to Eve.

 

[Paidiske]

Women dress, frankly, for the purpose of being looked at. They wear makeup and dress in uncomfortable attire pretty much perpetually.

The reality of women even attempting to state otherwise to men pretty much speaks for itself; really echoes back to Eve.

Lemme see. Today I'm wearing... a long black skirt (just above my ankles), black tights, black top, gray cardigan. Flat black shoes. No make up. For being looked at? Nope, for work. Aiming for comfort, practicality, and professionalism.

(I mean, when I was presiding at the Eucharist earlier, I did wear an alb, stole, and chasuble, and I think you could argue that was for being looked at, but for liturgical rather than sexual reasons).

Honestly, sweeping generalisations about the intentions of a very diverse group of people aren't either accurate or helpful.

 

[HighCherub]

Lemme see. Today I'm wearing... a long black skirt (just above my ankles), black tights, black top, gray cardigan. Flat black shoes. No make up. For being looked at? Nope, for work. Aiming for comfort, practicality, and professionalism.

(I mean, when I was presiding at the Eucharist earlier, I did wear an alb, stole, and chasuble, and I think you could argue that was for being looked at, but for liturgical rather than sexual reasons).

Honestly, sweeping generalisations about the intentions of a very diverse group of people aren't either accurate or helpful.

A 'sweeping generalization' could be me quoting St. Augustine, saying "Woman was merely man's helpmate, a function which pertains to her alone. She is not the image of God but as far as man is concerned, he is by himself the image of God"

In fact, all of the historical theologians held similar, anti-feminist suggestions, because they studied from a canon that reflects the same notions.

 

[Paidiske]

Augustine was wrong. Genesis says:

So God created humankind in his image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

Not every feminist thought strand is adequately Christian, but feminism - the belief in the equality of men and women - can be profoundly Christian.

However, that is off topic to the question of modesty; the point there was that any generalisation of why women dress the way we do will end up being false, since we have very diverse motivations.

 

[Catherineanne]

The first incident of sin is a woman deceiving a man- the Bible holds Adam accountable for his sin, but also outright purges Eve of authority for hers because of it.

Men are more brazen and physical than women- they tend to be more practical along such lines, also having more body mass and therefore retaining more heat.
Women dress, frankly, for the purpose of being looked at. They wear makeup and dress in uncomfortable attire pretty much perpetually.

The reality of women even attempting to state otherwise to men pretty much speaks for itself; really echoes back to Eve.

The spirit of Adam lives on.

QED.

And, oh look! I have authority in my life and you have zero, none, not a bit. Nothing is 'purged'. Good luck with that.

 

[HighCherub]

The spirit of Adam lives on.

Adam doesn't always mean 'man'. Sometimes it means 'mankind'.
Because Adam literally means 'red', relating to our pigment and the clay in the ground which Genesis relates us to.

Paul comes right out and states that Adam was not deceived, but that the woman being deceived was in transgression.
So whatever transgression that you say 'lives on' was originally induced by Eve.

And, oh look! I have authority. Nothing is 'purged'. Good luck with that.

So why are you a feminist then?

 

[Sammy-San]

I am sorry to hear that; kindly keep your 'several reasons' to yourself. They are all humbug, every one.

I will pray for you. Primarily that you stop visualising women half naked and then thinking about lust. See my post above re cold showers.

Do you agree with this modesty article? http://www.plainbibleteaching.com/2006/04/01/modest-apparel/

 

[Sammy-San]

Here are male and female bathing suit, circa 1890:

Here are male and female bathing suits, circa 2017:

If you don't think that shows a cultural change in attitudes regarding modesty then you are missing something. Oh, and the 2017 suits are actually fairly modest by current standards.

It doesn't mean it's godly because the culture accepts it.

 

[Archivist]

It doesn't mean it's godly because the culture accepts it.

So do you believe that both women and men today should be required to wear the type of bathing suits shown in the photo from the 1890s?

 

[Sammy-San]

So do you believe that both women and men today should be required to wear the type of bathing suits shown in the photo from the 1890s?

I can't imagine anyone wearing that in church.

 

[Archivist]

I can't imagine anyone wearing that in church.

But you didn't identify church in your earlier post. Different context.

 

[Catherineanne]

So why are you a feminist then?

Because Christ is; I am folllowing his very marvellous example.

I commend this to the attention of misogynists everywhere.

 

[Catherineanne]

Do you agree with this modesty article? http://www.plainbibleteaching.com/2006/04/01/modest-apparel/

Probably not.

Modesty is not about what we wear; it is about the state of our hearts.

Funny thing; the author of that article does not realise that 'thigh' is euphemism in the Bible for genitals. Perfectly true.

 

[Sammy-San]

Probably not.

Modesty is not about what we wear; it is about the state of our hearts.

Funny thing; the author of that article does not realise that 'thigh' is euphemism in the Bible for genitals. Perfectly true.

legalism feels like it has truth, and it makes things simpler to me.

 

[dayhiker]

I agree that legalism is easy. But I felt it had a few short falls that has lead me to move away it. First I found that I could focus on doing a list and miss that God is looking for a relationship. Second is we can miss that God is love and the trinity is a an illustration eternal love and love isn't about obeying its about taking time to love people and that is about being with them.

 

[Catherineanne]

legalism feels like it has truth, and it makes things simpler to me.

Does the Bible say we should take the simple way, or does it say we should follow Christ along the not at all simple Via Dolorosa? 'Feels like it has truth' versus 'The Way, the Truth and the Life'.

By all means be as critical of your own personal sin as you like, but leave other people alone.

 

[Sammy-San]

Does the Bible say we should take the simple way, or does it say we should follow Christ along the not at all simple Via Dolorosa? 'Feels like it has truth' versus 'The Way, the Truth and the Life'.

By all means be as critical of your own personal sin as you like, but leave other people alone.

legalism seems to simply topics like this.