Moderate Calvinism?

[desmalia]

I just came across this today.

Comments?

YouTube - The Doctrines of Grace: ModerateCalvinism

 

[itisdeliciouscake]

I stopped at 0:23 because I felt like my ears were getting raped

 

[desmalia]

I stopped at 0:23 because I felt like my ears were getting raped

Ya, sorry about that. I just think it's important to be aware of this kind of stuff and have a good response. Maybe I should sent it to James White. lol

 

[itisdeliciouscake]

Ya, sorry about that. I just think it's important to be aware of this kind of stuff and have a good response. Maybe I should sent it to James White. lol

I'll try and suffer through it...

 

[hedrick]

I agree about the problems with the voice. But as to substance, this moderate Calvinism sounds like Arminianism to me.

 

[desmalia]

I agree about the problems with the voice. But as to substance, this moderate Calvinism sounds like Arminianism to me.

It sure has that ring to it, doesn't it?

 

[Hentenza]

I agree about the problems with the voice. But as to substance, this moderate Calvinism sounds like Arminianism to me.

It isn't. I am a moderate Calvinist and certainly do not believe in Arminianism.

 

[desmalia]

It isn't. I am a moderate Calvinist and certainly do not believe in Arminianism.

Care to elaborate, brother?

 

[Hentenza]

Care to elaborate, brother?

Basically I believe that there is a tension in scripture between predestination and free will that remains unresolved. While I fully believe in predestination I do not believe that God elected the reprobate. Basically all means all and any that believe in the Son will be saved. God is sovereign.

 

[RobertZ]

Basically I believe that there is a tension in scripture between predestination and free will that remains unresolved. While I fully believe in predestination I do not believe that God elected the reprobate. Basically all means all and any that believe in the Son will be saved. God is sovereign.

See, the whole thing that bothers me is that if God did not elect the reprobate then he obviously created them for destruction. So God only draws a select few "the elect" and leaves the rest of humanity to die in their sins? So did Jesus die for everyone or not?


Sorry, I know most of you by now probably roll your eyes every time you see that I have posted something. Please be patient with me, this has been 2 long years of Hell on earth for me.

 

[Hentenza]

See, the whole thing that bothers me is that if God did not elect the reprobate then he obviously created them for destruction. So God only draws a select few "the elect" and leaves the rest of humanity to die in their sins? So did Jesus die for everyone or not?

Robert, I am not sure how you arrive at that conclusion. If God did not elect the reprobate, then it means that all that call in the name of Jesus will be saved. If God elected the reprobate then we have two groups, the saved elect and the reprobate elect. In this scenario God would have indeed created some for destruction which is contrary to God's justice and Christ sacrifice.

 

[RobertZ]

Robert, I am not sure how you arrive at that conclusion. If God did not elect the reprobate, then it means that all that call in the name of Jesus will be saved. If God elected the reprobate then we have two groups, the saved elect and the reprobate elect. In this scenario God would have indeed created some for destruction which is contrary to God's justice and Christ sacrifice.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. Let me put it another way, we know according to the Bible that election is true and its only Gods elect who will be saved.

The reprobate on the other hand have absolutely no hope for salvation but my question is this.............are they reprobated because God created them to be that way or are they reprobated because they had the same opportunity as anyone else to be saved but they instead said no to Gods salvation?

If its the latter then Gods grace is resistible, their is no way around it.

 

[ReformedChapin]

The whole point of Calvinism is set with the first point. Without total inability you lose the fact that God saves man by grace alone through faith alone. According to Calvinist, God elects you by his grace to salvation without his election you are left in the clear path to hell because 1) he ordained it therefore 2)you willed it . With this position (moderate calvinism) all you are left with some synergistic salvation, anyone who actually understand this realizes this is trick to call this position "moderate calvinism." This is just another pseudo form of pelagianism.

I would be more comfortable with you calling yourselves moderate arminians because you are no calvinists.

 

[kenrapoza]

This is not moderate Calvinism at all, but it sounds just like Classical Arminianism to me. Granted, I didn't finish it so I don't know what they say about Perseverance. But I noticed how they affirmed Total Depravity and then flatly contradicted it, obviously not understanding what it means. Oh well.

 

[RobertZ]

Could someone please address my last question?

 

[the particular baptist]

I just came across this today.

Comments?

Fullerism

 

[the particular baptist]

Romans 9:21-24 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

'Nuff said.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

Basically I believe that there is a tension in scripture between predestination and free will that remains unresolved. While I fully believe in predestination I do not believe that God elected the reprobate. Basically all means all and any that believe in the Son will be saved. God is sovereign.

I believe the two, grace and free will, are seperated because one is justified by faith which is the natural result of regeneration (pure grace) and one is sanctified by repentance which is the natural result of faith (free will). So, we do nothing to earn justification, but we decide to repent and cooperate with the Holy Spirit in a lifelong process of sanctification.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

I just came across this today.

Comments?

YouTube - The Doctrines of Grace: ModerateCalvinism

The video used the term Moderate Calvinism, a term that defines the views of Calvin himself, to describe arminianism. No calvinists believe that natural man has the ability within himself to be saved. All calvinists affirm that regeneration preceeds faith. Without that belief that regeneration preceeds faith one is not a Calvinist.

 

[JM]

lol Fullerism! Yup.

Have a look at the handy, dandy Calvinism Chart.