MJAA, UMJC, SDA Synagogues?

[tampasteve]

I am trying to start to attend some of the Messianic Synagogues in the area. In general, what are the main differences in the two main "denominations" or affiliations of MJ? From their websites it is difficult to see a difference, to see why there are two. From the individual congregation websites it seems maybe the UMJC is more "traditional" in liturgy, but I am sure it varies by congregation. Here there are two MJAA and one UMJC congregations with the MJAA being in a closer location and convenient time.

 

[Open Heart]

I have only attended a couple MJAA congregations, and I found them to be more Protestant than Jewish. That's just my impression. I have not studied their theology more than superficially, but what I've studied seems okay. They have conservative theology. If you go there, you'll be fine.

UMJC is more than okay, it's great. I love how Jewish it is--it uses Jewish liturgy, and the Rabbis are Jewish (at least, last I checked). It has a superb beit din (Rabbinical Council) that really tackles the snarly issues like the Standards of Observance (which draws from the Talmud as well as the Torah) and Conversion. It does have a range of beliefs with more conventional groups like Dayenu and very strictly Jewish groups like Hashivenu. Its theology is conservative. And it has good relations with all the churches. It is in official dialogue with the Catholic church. It has common activities and stuff with other churches. The man who I think is the single most forward thinker in MJ, Mark Kinzer, is UMJC.

 

[tampasteve]

Thank you for the information! I guess I am going to have to try them all to see which fits best. Turns out they are about 5-10 minutes difference in drive time anyway. Unfortunately only one offers a Saturday morning service weekly (the other two offer it monthly), Friday evenings are difficult right now as my wife and I have a 4 month old baby and 7:30 or 8pm is not always a great time to be out and about....

 

[Dave-W]

Actyally there are more than 2. But the 2 you list are the largest in the US. And they were actually one organization back in the 70s, with the UMJC breaking off in 1979, primarily over focus and direction; as well as personality issues between the leaders. MJAA is an individual association whereas the UMJC is a congregational affiliation. Not too sure about the MJAA but there is a lot of difference between sub-groupings of congregations in the UMJC. The Hashevenu group is VERY liturgical and cessationist. The Tikkun group is very charismatic, and somewhat less liturgical. There is a third group that was tired of the disputes between those 2 groups that is called "dayenu".

But aside from those 2 groups there are also Chosen People Ministries (the oldest organization) and the Association of Messianic Congregations; plus a plethora of very small groups and independent congregations.

 

[tampasteve]

Thank you @Dave-W ! I knew there were other groups, but not the two you mentioned. I primarily mention the MJAA and UMJC as they have synagogues in my area. I am fortunate that there are three MJAA (two branches of the same group) and a UMJC synagogue within a 25 minute drive of my house; though, I do wish there were a closer one.

Asside from asking, or hoping it is on their website, is there a way to find out which group any given congregation in the UJMC might be a part of?

 

[Dave-W]

Asside from asking, or hoping it is on their website, is there a way to find out which group any given congregation in the UJMC might be a part of?

Good question. I do not think the Tikkun website publishes that info; but you can call their office and find out whether your local synagogue is part of them.

I imagine it would be the same with Hashevenu and Dayenu groups.

 

[tampasteve]

Thank you, side note - could you clarify the difference between individual association and congregational?

 

[Open Heart]

I am fortunate that there are three MJAA (two branches of the same group) and a UMJC synagogue within a 25 minute drive of my house; though, I do wish there were a closer one.

I used to schlep 45 minutes until I finally moved closer.

 

[Open Heart]

I guess I am going to have to try them all

Please do tell how it goes! It's kind of exciting.

 

[tampasteve]

I used to schlep 45 minutes until I finally moved closer.

That's one great thing about Chabad, I love under a mile from their local house, so it's a simple walk...

Please do tell how it goes! It's kind of exciting.

I sure will!

 

[Dave-W]

Thank you, side note - could you clarify the difference between individual association and congregational?

Indeed.

The MJAA membership is composed of individuals. If they are Jewish they can have full membership, but associate membership is Offered to spouses of Jews or those with Jews on their father's side. It had little to do with setting up congregations or ordaining leadership. UMJC Started out focusing on congregations and leadership training.

Since their split, both groups have started sub groups addressing the other's concerns.

 

[Open Heart]

The MJAA membership is composed of individuals.

Quite true. In addition, isn't MJAA associated with the congregational group International Alliance Of Messianic Congregations And Synagogues (Iamcs) ?

 

[Dave-W]

Quite true. In addition, isn't MJAA associated with the congregational group International Alliance Of Messianic Congregations And Synagogues (Iamcs) ?

Actually they both fall under that group. They insisted circa 2000 that they both sit down and settle their differences. That is still a work in progress.

 

[tampasteve]

Thanks for the information @Dave-W !

 

[Dave-W]

Thanks for the information @Dave-W !

You are welcome. My wife used to work directly for Dan Juster who was an architect of the UMJC. He was also involved in the effort to reconcile the 2 organizations.

 

[tampasteve]

Update:
So I have been listening to the weekly podcast of the MJAA affiliated Temple New Jerusalem. I like the rabbi's speaking voice, but the messages seem to be a bit long winded (35-45 minutes) and winding without coming to a direct conclusion or pointing out ways to apply the parsha to our daily life in a truly meaningful way...I do not think this will be a good fit for our family.

 

[Dave-W]

Update:
So I have been listening to the weekly podcast of the MJAA affiliated Temple New Jerusalem. I like the rabbi's speaking voice, but the messages seem to be a bit long winded (35-45 minutes) and winding without coming to a direct conclusion or pointing out ways to apply the parsha to our daily life in a truly meaningful way...I do not think this will be a good fit for our family.

I see there are at least 7 different Messianic congregations in the broader Tampa area.

Map Location(s)

It looks like most are from the IAMCS (MJAA)

I was actually surprised to not find any Chosen People congregations.

 

[tampasteve]

I see there are at least 7 different Messianic congregations in the broader Tampa area.

Map Location(s)

View attachment 215392

It looks like most are from the IAMCS (MJAA)

I was actually surprised to not find any Chosen People congregations.

Thanks! Oddly the map is not quite correct... Temple New Jerusalem is listed at the wrong address and Kerem El is shown in downtown Tampa, but is actually not in Tampa at all but across the state in Port St. Lucie...but you are correct, we are lucky to have a few. However, four (one not on the map) of them are the same "Shoresh David" group, but different locations (Tampa, Brandon, Wesley Chapel, St. Pete). I am told that at one time there was one very close to where I live, but it is no longer there.

 

[Dave-W]

Oddly the map is not quite correct...

I am not sure how often Messianic Times updates that info.
Apparently not often enough.

 

[tampasteve]

I am not sure how often Messianic Times updates that info.
Apparently not often enough.

It was a pretty recent move for TNJ, just this past September.